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Hail Speed penality removal pweese?

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KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 13:11:00 - [1] Remove the speed penality, It makes the baby jesus cry. No Close range ammo should have a speed penality. Or give Void some speed penality too, and Conflagration aswell. Nuh uh. -5% global Cap recharge is already harsh enough. Sure other ammo drain cap fast 'when' you shoot. I don't care. Everyone will say 'projectile use no cap'. Well, who cares that's not the point. Speed Penality away
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.01.26 13:16:00 - [2] or at least make it a single penalty of -10 or -15% not a stackable. Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.26 13:37:00 - [3] Or fix T2 amo overall? Faction does more damage, T2 should be secondary effects (and add faction missiles). --------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
Hanns	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:20:00 - [4] Originally by: KilROCK Remove the speed penality, It makes the baby jesus cry. No Close range ammo should have a speed penality. Or give Void some speed penality too, and Conflagration aswell. Nuh uh. -5% global Cap recharge is already harsh enough. Sure other ammo drain cap fast 'when' you shoot. I don't care. Everyone will say 'projectile use no cap'. Well, who cares that's not the point. Speed Penality away Yeah do that Conflag already halves my tracking and is cap hungry add the speed penalty to and nobody will use it, fix other ammo instead of crying nerf on the ones that are half decent.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:22:00 - [5] Well i stopped using Hail when they added this Speed penality, But hey, About the tracking. Void, Hail, Conflag, it's all the same. I just don't see why hail has a speed penality tho. Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:27:00 - [6] Originally by: KilROCK Well i stopped using Hail when they added this Speed penality, But hey, About the tracking. Void, Hail, Conflag, it's all the same. I just don't see why hail has a speed penality tho. Seen the cap usage on the crystals and blaster ammos? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:28:00 - [7] Edited by: KilROCK on 26/01/2006 14:34:11 Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: KilROCK Well i stopped using Hail when they added this Speed penality, But hey, About the tracking. Void, Hail, Conflag, it's all the same. I just don't see why hail has a speed penality tho. Seen the cap usage on the crystals and blaster ammos? And because your gun uses 'more' cap than projectile ammo, it makes it right to shove a -10/20% speed reduction per gun fitting the ammo? You have to be kidding me. Let's see. A megathron with 7 Ions II uses 25% more cap from guns. While a Tempest with 6 dual 650mm II loses 30% Cap recharge without even firing. Once you're done shooting. It does go back up. Then, for the little tempest, Unload ammo to go up? So bassicly, You fit Void/Conflagration, And lose the effect of Controlled burst 5. Use Hail and Lose Energy system op 5 and -5% with 6 guns. Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:55:00 - [8] Edited by: Nadec Ascand on 26/01/2006 14:54:58 must be kidding? Tested my eagle with 4 T2 rails yesterday... The fact is i had a ship with 2500shield going to 210m/S with 0.034 tracking and 6cap used per fire... now i got a 1100shield eagle fying at 117m/S with 0.0211 tracking and 10cap per fire... yeah sure fix evry other ammunition mine are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GREAT... not forgeting thats the short range ammo Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron... Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:56:00 - [9] Edited by: KilROCK on 26/01/2006 14:56:11 Originally by: Nadec Ascand Edited by: Nadec Ascand on 26/01/2006 14:54:58 must be kidding? Tested my eagle with 4 T2 rails yesterday... The fact is i had a ship with 2500shield going to 210m/S with 0.034 tracking and 6cap used per fire... now i got a 1100shield eagle fying at 117m/S with 0.0211 tracking and 10cap per fire... yeah sure fix evry other ammunition mine are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GREAT... not forgeting thats the short range ammo I'm talking close range GUN ammo smartypants. IE Blasters/Autocannons/Pulse Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:59:00 - [10] the fact is that any ammo close/long and any race appart... thoose penality should not be stackable... U should not get the 14% speed loose x 4 when fitting 4 guns but just loose 14% speed wich is already an handicap for a tackler Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron... Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:59:00 - [11] Void L is a joke .... Real men use blasters
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Void L is a joke Least you can approach and use it. Try using Hail and mwding to something. Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
VeNT	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:20:00 - [13] am I getting this wrong or somthing what NEGATIVES do ANY other T2 items (Modules or ships) have compaired to the T1 ver? why does ammo need a huge nerf? T2 ammo should just cost more, its simple enough! it already requires that you only use it in the more expencive T2 guns anyway! very few T2 modules REQUIRE a T2 ship, (I know cloaking does, but any others?) so why does ammo?
Aba Tor	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:23:00 - [14] Originally by: VeNT am I getting this wrong or somthing what NEGATIVES do ANY other T2 items (Modules or ships) have compaired to the T1 ver? why does ammo need a huge nerf? T2 ammo should just cost more, its simple enough! it already requires that you only use it in the more expencive T2 guns anyway! very few T2 modules REQUIRE a T2 ship, (I know cloaking does, but any others?) so why does ammo? Actualy cloaking dose not require a t2 ship (just some t2 ships have bonuses to it). ... A wise man never plays TAG with a RINO
Amarr Citizen 105	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Void L is a joke Stunning damage for less tracking,,, why a joke?
Porro	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:37:00 - [16] Edited by: Porro on 06/02/2006 12:38:47 Large blasters have pretty awful tracking allready without using ammo that makes it worse. You could just do keep at range, but then normal long range turrets could hit you anyway. Guess itd work against ravens? :P But yeah signed, why should one ammo type have 3 negatives? When all the others have two.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Porro Edited by: Porro on 06/02/2006 12:38:47 Large blasters have pretty awful tracking allready without using ammo that makes it worse. You could just do keep at range, but then normal long range turrets could hit you anyway. Guess itd work against ravens? :P But yeah signed, why should one ammo type have 3 negatives? When all the others have two. Large Ion II: 0,046 rad/sec 650 II: 0,048 rad/sec megathron gets +25% tracking boost
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:41:00 - [18] T2 Ammo Dominates, plain and simple, nerf's or not... UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2006.02.06 12:51:00 - [19] I have to agree with the original poster on the speed penalty. Here is specifically why. -14% speed each turret. This does not have any sort of stacking penalty to it so every turret is added up to get the total speed penalty. 5 autocannons loaded with hail ammo (could be a vagabond for this example since it has 5 turrets) gets a nice free 70% webber applied to the ship. Oh the vagabond is soo fast you say. 242 base speed. +25% from navigation and +25% from cruiser 5 (this second one may already be added i dont remember off hand) give it a top speed of 378 m/s if both apply or 302.5 m/s if the cuiser 5 bonus is already built in. 5 guns load with hail ammo results in a top speed of 90.75m/s (from the 302.5 m/s) or 113.4 m/s (from 378 m/s). Most battleships fly faster than that without an afterburner going. The only things that could not outrun that vagabond are capital ships, tech 1 barges, and some industrial ships with lots of expanders. That speed penalty is very harsh especially the way it stacks up.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.02.06 13:43:00 - [20] Originally by: VeNT am I getting this wrong or somthing what NEGATIVES do ANY other T2 items (Modules or ships) have compaired to the T1 ver? why does ammo need a huge nerf? Because it does more damage. This is silly. See my post above. Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.02.06 14:25:00 - [21] The thing is that your meant to have problems using t2 to make it only usable in specific circumstance. The problem is that t2 missile penalties aren't really aplicable to missile based ships, since they have no tracking and most don't need cap as regularly. I suggest that t2 ammo gets similarly irrelevent penalties... at this point i was going ot suggest some silly ideas, but i genuinely couldn't think of anything that wouldn't really hurt a turret BSes ability to fight. Even something like -10% to cargo size or drone bay would make a lot of solo set-ups much harder to fly :\|
Anjerrai Meloanis	Posted - 2006.02.06 15:03:00 - [22] it wouldnt be so bad if you could change ammo in 5seconds, then you could load hail L when youre in range uh.

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