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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dux Dar on 27/01/2006 17:22:37 As things stand now, insta bookmarks is ONLY a pain in the ***.
As the ppl who dont have them is mostly new, instas is just an unfair advantage for the older ppl (especially now that copying bookmarks is laggier then blob fighting).
Can someone explain to me why we cant remove instas all together? (meaning... make it impossible to make/use a bookmark closer then 100km from a gate or station).
ofc, we have to get a option for warping in at 2.5k instead. (If the devs seriously means that traveling time isnt long enough, this option can be sett to not work as "default", and therefore cant work with autopilot)
I realy cant see that such a change would make ANY change to gameplay other then for some bottomfeeding pirates who dont know how to kill anyone who has instas (and they should realy smarten up anyway)
This would work ALOT better then the stupid "random jumpin" approach that was tried on the test senter (and only resulted in ppl moving their insta bookmarks some).
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themule
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:28:00 -
[2]
I agree excepet make the warp in point 7.5km.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:31:00 -
[3]
Yes remove instas.
Then give a high slot module that lets yo warp closer to the gate.
Make it so if you want to run safer you have to trade off some offense.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 27/01/2006 17:33:13 Dar Dux,
It's too carebear-friendly afaik. If you could hold a limited (500-1500) number of 0km warps, THAT would be interesting. Tradeable, and creatable by taking 15s to scan the object.
And autopilot would allways drop you at 15km, regardless. (Protecting the advantages of manual travel)
themule,
Here's just one of dozens of negative effects: There is a pirate BS 200km from the gate. It snipes you when you drop out of insta range. If you are in anythign smaller than a BS, you are DEAD.
Instas allow you to avoid it.
Ghoest,
Those modules them become absolutely compulsory, thus effectively removing those highslots from low sec / 0.0 pilots. Period.
The tactical, strategic and psycological avdantages of being able to instajump are too high to give up.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Unknown Subject
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:33:00 -
[5]
another remove instas thread. stop moaning you gate camping *****s.
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Kerushi
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:33:00 -
[6]
not an advantage over n00bs, in the uni we teached them how to make them and that is done in every corp ________________
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:36:00 -
[7]
well, 7.5k would be a nerf to gameplay for those who have bookmarks, while a 2.5k option would be a boost to those who dont have them (and no change for those who have them)...
I know what I would prefere.
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Jentai Cylor
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:38:00 -
[8]
1) Instas create far too much overhead.
2) Playing without instas is a lesson in self abuse. Who wants to play a game where you spend 90% of your time watching a slowly approching starget.
Remove instas, and make a skill that reduces the jump in range.
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jentai Cylor 1) Instas create far too much overhead.
Remove instas, and make a skill that reduces the jump in range.
No point introducing a new skill, would only work as a time-sink, as everyone would have to learn it
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jentai Cylor 1) Instas create far too much overhead.
Not true since they got the RAMSAN.
And a skill would simply be mandatory, and thus wouldn't help at all.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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themule
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:41:00 -
[11]
Well 7.5km in a boost over what CCP orginally intended. It would bring some element of danger back to low sec.
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Daleo
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:42:00 -
[12]
Bm's at a gate could give a tactical advantage in fleet battle.
Its needed for good fighting as it is now. If you delete the bm's at gate 80% of the tactics used in battle wont work...
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Jentai Cylor
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Jentai Cylor 1) Instas create far too much overhead.
Not true since they got the RAMSAN.
And a skill would simply be mandatory, and thus wouldn't help at all.
So end result is everyone will have it, just like now. But there will be no issues with storage or bandwidth?
Sounds like a good solution to me :)
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Jentai Cylor
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: Jentai Cylor 1) Instas create far too much overhead.
Remove instas, and make a skill that reduces the jump in range.
No point introducing a new skill, would only work as a time-sink, as everyone would have to learn it
True, but no one said it had to be a 6X multiplier skill. maybe only a 2x.
Either sink some time or sink a nice chunk of isk. Either way we are paying for it.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:44:00 -
[15]
Yes, but then you have a simple ability to insta to every gate, and afk instas. Neither of which are desireable.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Daleo Bm's at a gate could give a tactical advantage in fleet battle.
Its needed for good fighting as it is now. If you delete the bm's at gate 80% of the tactics used in battle wont work...
So youre saying that ppl in a fleet cant warp to a gate withouth a bookmark?????
Please enlighten me... seriously, im curious
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themule
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:51 Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:12
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: Daleo Bm's at a gate could give a tactical advantage in fleet battle.
Its needed for good fighting as it is now. If you delete the bm's at gate 80% of the tactics used in battle wont work...
So youre saying that ppl in a fleet cant warp to a gate withouth a bookmark?????
Please enlighten me... seriously, im curious
No hes saying that fleets use bms near gates that are NOT bookmarks. (edit : i mean not instas)
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Jentai Cylor
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes, but then you have a simple ability to insta to every gate, and afk instas. Neither of which are desireable.
Im still rather new so dont shoot me for this question. What is wrong with afk instas? Wouldnt that mean the player has to come back to keyboard from afk sooner?
Not to be rude or anything, but designing the system to reward people who are present but picking there nose as compared to someone who multitasks just seems odd.
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: themule Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:51 Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:12
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: Daleo Bm's at a gate could give a tactical advantage in fleet battle.
Its needed for good fighting as it is now. If you delete the bm's at gate 80% of the tactics used in battle wont work...
So youre saying that ppl in a fleet cant warp to a gate withouth a bookmark?????
Please enlighten me... seriously, im curious
No hes saying that fleets use bms near gates that are NOT bookmarks. (edit : i mean not instas)
You mean bookmarks near a gate thats NOT an insta? That make sense... Ok, just make the "no bookmark zone" to be only 5km or somthing... fixed
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themule
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: themule Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:51 Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:12
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: Daleo Bm's at a gate could give a tactical advantage in fleet battle.
Its needed for good fighting as it is now. If you delete the bm's at gate 80% of the tactics used in battle wont work...
So youre saying that ppl in a fleet cant warp to a gate withouth a bookmark?????
Please enlighten me... seriously, im curious
No hes saying that fleets use bms near gates that are NOT bookmarks. (edit : i mean not instas)
You mean bookmarks near a gate thats NOT an insta? That make sense... Ok, just make the "no bookmark zone" to be only 5km or somthing... fixed
Um bookmarks are made behind the gate more then 5 km out... there would have to be some sort of warp bubble around the gate to sstop bookmark use.
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jentai Cylor
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes, but then you have a simple ability to insta to every gate, and afk instas. Neither of which are desireable.
Im still rather new so dont shoot me for this question. What is wrong with afk instas? Wouldnt that mean the player has to come back to keyboard from afk sooner?
Not to be rude or anything, but designing the system to reward people who are present but picking there nose as compared to someone who multitasks just seems odd.
Agreed, i cant see why not aither... Also, i did state that a new warpin point can simply be set to NOT work as "default/autopilot" if the devs so wanted
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dux Dar on 27/01/2006 17:56:03
Originally by: themule
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: themule Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:51 Edited by: themule on 27/01/2006 17:45:12
Originally by: Dux Dar
Originally by: Daleo Bm's at a gate could give a tactical advantage in fleet battle.
Its needed for good fighting as it is now. If you delete the bm's at gate 80% of the tactics used in battle wont work...
So youre saying that ppl in a fleet cant warp to a gate withouth a bookmark?????
Please enlighten me... seriously, im curious
No hes saying that fleets use bms near gates that are NOT bookmarks. (edit : i mean not instas)
You mean bookmarks near a gate thats NOT an insta? That make sense... Ok, just make the "no bookmark zone" to be only 5km or somthing... fixed
Um bookmarks are made behind the gate more then 5 km out... there would have to be some sort of warp bubble around the gate to sstop bookmark use.
"no bookmark zone" was a bitt to generic... what i meant was that it would be easy to check when you try to activate warp if it ends inside a "no warp zone", and therefore you can stop the warp before starting.
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Helplessandlost
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:58:00 -
[23]
No, travel time is too excessive now in most cases. Gate campers should catch people on the outgoing gate as insta's have very little help for that.
Take them out and make warp to 0, this way you can still catch people on the outgoing gate same as now.
But then what about Safes? Without those a large defense would be gone, scouting would be near impossible and why do we need scan probes as no one would be able to "hide" anymore anyway.
Better idea leave them the way they are.
"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Check us out
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Dux Dar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dux Dar on 27/01/2006 18:01:33
Originally by: Helplessandlost
But then what about Safes?
Safes? you make your safespots nearer then 5km from a gate or station????
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trust trd
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:04:00 -
[25]
In the first 2-3 months of the game I admit that I did not like instas, but for some reason they are not so bad to me and I have got pretty skilled at making them quickly and right on the jumpgate.
If a change is ever made on instas (like requiring a skill to jump closer and instas were removed near jump gates) please tell us 'far' in advance what the skill requirements are. I don't want to be stuck in 0.0 with Instas that don't work and I need 28 days of training to get the skill I need (at the level I need) to get out of 0.0 safely.
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000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:06:00 -
[26]
If instas are removed but the warp in point to the gates/stations is not decreased dramatically i think the next patch will again be called Exodus... Exodus out of EVE.
Cause that is what tons of people will be doing, it's boring enough having to travel 20 or more jumps as it is and u want to make it even worse?
Also, if gatesniping aholes are common now, they will tenfold then.
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Dagam
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:07:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dagam on 27/01/2006 18:07:43 EVE with instas is a whole different game. CCP should take more control over how we are supposed to travel especially if instas bog down the server, as instas are not an intended feature of the game otherwise we'd be warping 0 km to places. In the meantime I refuse to go to low/no sec places without instas.
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Helplessandlost
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dux Dar Edited by: Dux Dar on 27/01/2006 18:01:33
Originally by: Helplessandlost
But then what about Safes?
Safes? you make your safespots nearer then 5km from a gate or station????
Sure, last place they'd ever look for me
No, I took your original post to mean remove Book Marks all together, if it was just meant for insta book marks then I take out that last statement but not the travel time issue.
"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Check us out
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Ardent Rellik
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:35:00 -
[29]
Ok. Get the fraggin Interbus online - this will stop most of insta whineage... You want to travel somewhere - you pay for it. You want to go to ISS marginis because you Interbus delivered your cargo there - you better pay. You want to move a ship faster, more reliably, you pay. Simple, Instas wills till be viable for all around travel within x ammount of jumps - after that you will need allot of ISK and a farly Ok standing with Interbus.
Example: If I want to move a ship + my pod+ some cargo to a station outside of Empire. Interbus will charge me: 10% of the Price of the Ship+ 5% of the price of Cargo + ohh I dont know.... 10 Mill for the Pod Service. So, if I am in a raven with 6 K missiles, I would have to pay (Aprox) 10 Mill + 1 Mill + 10 Mill = 21 Mill to go to the destination I desire. Same for the trip back.
So, souverign Stations in 0.0 can make a specific Interbus Travel/Docking Fee and it will work together with Standing/vs Docking. if you dont have high enough standing to dock there - the interbus wont take you. If you are allowed to dock, you will have to pay X ammount docking fee for traveling via interbus and not via normal channels.
Another way to restrict just silly jumping from 0.0 outposts to Empire and back for rich folk would be that Interbus can only take you somewhere once every 24 hrs. Like a Jump clone.
I dont know maybe it sounds silly, see what you think guys.
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Leto Nyx
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Posted - 2006.01.27 18:47:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Leto Nyx on 27/01/2006 18:47:58 Why not just limit the number of bookmarks each person can have. Then you'll have to choose which ones are most important to you. Make them non-copiable too. If you want an insta, you're going to have to take the risk and go there in person to make it.
When some ships, like mining barges for example, go so slowly they are almost moving backwards, removing instas completely would cause a huge amount of unrest and pi$$ed-offedness. I wouldn't mind having them 'nerfed' a bit though. Doesn't bother me, I'd just have to put a bit more thought into them and use them a little more sparingly.
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