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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 14:48:00 -
[1]
I don't understand how the blueprints display the required minerals
I'll use antimatter medium charges as an example
My PE skill is at lvl 3 btw
My researched Blueprint looks like this.
mexallon - [you 7 - perfect 6]
pyerite - [you 413 - perfect 375]
tritanium - [you 444 - perfect 404]
the way i understand it, i should be making the charges with the perfect numbers if my PE was at lvl 5. But I'm making it using the perfect numbers now, and im only at lvl 3. I've just learned lvl 3 PE and the required minerals didn't reduce from when it was at lvl 2, so what's the point in me learning that skill?!
i don't understand
I've looked at a non researched BP off the market, and the requirements look like this
mexallon - [7]
pyerite - [you 454 - perfect 413]
tritanium - [you 489 - perfect 444]
It seems to me that PE is pointless, my charges take the same amount of materials to make at PE lvl 3 as they did at PE lvl 2, what's going on? I don't understand.
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.01.28 16:22:00 -
[2]
You must be reading something wrong, because PE has a huge effect on minerals required. Did you relog between when you learned PE 3 and checked the BPO? It's possible the numbers weren't updated if you were still online.
And are you saying with a PE 3 that you're only using 375 Pyreite to make that ammo? Not 413? Where are you getting that number? From the top of the manufacturing list? Because that will tell you the perfect number, but the bottom of that list says the waste involved, that's the extra bit (375 + waste = 413).
Production Efficency is a vital skill if you intend on making items. Costs for ships can be upwards of millions of ISK difference without using a high PE skill.
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Lil Miner |
GC13
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Posted - 2006.01.28 16:37:00 -
[3]
Er... The "perfect" is just in relation to your PE. The ML of the blueprint is CALCULATED in that "perfect" value, but the "perfect" value of a ML 0 and a ML 100 blueprint are going to be different (because like I said: "perfect" is what it would take at that ML, with PE 5).
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 16:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Rincey on 28/01/2006 16:54:24
 Quote:
And are you saying with a PE 3 that you're only using 375 Pyreite to make that ammo? Not 413?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
It seems my ammo BPO is using the perfect numbers, not the 'you' numbers to build stuff.
I'll check again tomorrow after downtime to see if it just takes a while for PE3 to kick in.
Quote:
Where are you getting that number?
When I install the BP I don't get a waste number, that went away after lots of research.
I install the BPO it tells me it needs 404 trit 375 pye and 6 mex. I press accept quote and those are the only minerals it takes (coz that's all i put in my hangar).
Those numbers are the 'perfect' numbers on the BPO.
So thats where I'm confused. Why have the 'you' numbers if they aren't used. and why should i train PE any further when it took the same amount of minerals at PE2.
This BPO has been heavily researched, but that shouln't mean PE has no affect should it?
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 16:57:00 -
[5]
the way it appears to work to me is that PE and ML bother reduce wastage, NOT the actual build requirements.
So It seems ive researched all the waste off, and PE has no further affect.
But that's not how i understoofd ML and PE to work. so hence my confusion.
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rincey on 28/01/2006 17:04:32
and just to add.
I know I'm not making any mistakes because I've got the required minerals written in my notepad for working out how much it cost me to build so i can sell extra ammo off for profit
Quote:
Antimatter - 50k run
Mex = 3000 @ 9isk = 27,000isk
Pye = 187500 @ 3.8isk = 712,500isk
Trit = 202000 @ 1.5isk = 303,000isk
there you can see it cost me 187500 pyerite to build 50,000 units of ammo (500 runs) and 187500 / 500 = 375 which is the 'perfect' value on my BPO.
these notepad notes are over a week old, and my PE was trained to lvl 3 today yet nothing has changed in my build requirements as I've put a new 500 run of ammo and it's asking for the same amount of minerals.
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rincey
the way it appears to work to me is that PE and ML bother reduce wastage, NOT the actual build requirements.
So It seems ive researched all the waste off, and PE has no further affect.
No, that's now how ML and PE work. ML reduces waste, and PE takes minerals from the total (I haven't done the new system with anything less than PE 5, so I don't know how minerals lost to low PE are counted on the quot screen). Go back up and read my first post, and you'll see what is going on.
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:14:00 -
[8]
I still don't understand.
The game is telling me that training PE is pointless because there is no difference between PE2 and PE3.
I know that can't be correct, so why don't I see any difference?
IF PE and ML both ONLY remove waste, then you can research a BPO to remove all waste without wasting time training PE, no?
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:17:00 -
[9]
Okay, let's use a hypothetical blueprint that when it's completely perfect (ML 10, for the sake of argument) and your PE is 5, it takes 50 tritanium. This means that with ML 10 and PE 0, it takes 63 (or 62, but whatever). If you try to build it with PE 0 and ML 10, it will obviously have 63 for the "perfect" value. But with ML 0, it says that 69 is perfect, since "perfect" ONLY relates to your skill, NOT the ML. The blueprint itself is not perfect if you have PE 5 and ML 0, but your SKILL is perfect, and that's what it's talking about. Skill only, not blueprint.
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:21:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Rincey on 28/01/2006 17:23:20
are you telling me PE is useless?
why haven't i seen any improvement from PE2 to PE3?
(not just my antimatter but also my other BPO's that are heavily researched)
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.01.28 18:25:00 -
[11]
Er... Look at my post again. Now the numbers should gel with what I was trying to say. (Sorry I couldn't be more coherent, but I had people screaming for me to hurry up and run out the door.)
And no, PE is far from useless.
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 21:12:00 -
[12]
why haven't i seen any improvement from PE2 to PE3?
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.01.28 21:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rincey
why haven't i seen any improvement from PE2 to PE3?
Display error? Try checking the blueprint again, because my PE has been lowering my build costs.
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.28 21:49:00 -
[14]
Quote:
(because like I said: "perfect" is what it would take at that ML, with PE 5).
Mine is using the 'perfect' with PE at 2 and 3, and the PE increase hasn't altered anything
see why I'm confused?
I'll wait till after downtime and check again.
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Armagedon Tired
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Posted - 2006.01.28 23:03:00 -
[15]
PE (as I understand it) does not affect what is written on the blueprint only research affects that. So if you do another run even though the figers on the blueprint have not changed you should notice less minerals are used
Linkagescroll down to the heading Blueprints and read from there.
Hope that helps
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Rincey
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Posted - 2006.01.29 11:55:00 -
[16]
Quote:
PE (as I understand it) does not affect what is written on the blueprint only research affects that. So if you do another run even though the figers on the blueprint have not changed you should notice less minerals are used
My point is that there has been no difference minerals required from PE2 to PE3.
I've just checked this morning, and it still costs me the same as it did last week.
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.01.29 19:00:00 -
[17]
Well, if it really is working like that for you, then report it as a bug. Because obviously, it is one.
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