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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2003.08.28 12:48:00 -
[1]
Ok I know this is unlikely to get implemented as CCP already have a view on how they want the market to work but I've been thinking about this and just want to see what peoples reactions are to this idea.
It seams to me that NPC loot seriously damages the player driven market. Our small corp currently farms NPC's and we never mine for minerals other than Bistot. We get enough from recycling loot to build whatever we need (including a few battleships) we never buy much off the market as we have all we need from loot or build it ourselves. Basically we don't contribute to the economy at all. We cant sell most of our looted modules because:
1. Everyone else either has them or they're no good to anyone anyway
2. We cant be bothered to fly 40 jumps down to the core to hang around on the trade channel for days on end.
So how to make NPC farmers contribute to the economy? Get rid of NPC dropped loot modules.
<ducks the hail of knives thrown in his direction> 
Wait, Hear me out!
Instead, make NPC's drop components that can be used in manufacturing to improve the item produced, for example:
Killing a pirate might drop a component called "Alumel wiring"
If that component is used with a Magnometric ECCM BP you get a Alumel Magnometric ECCM module. If used with a Sensor Booster BP you would get an Alumel-Wired Sensor Booster.
or
Killing a NPC you might find a "gauss system diagram" that could be used with a 250mm BP to produce a 250mm gauss. Used it with a magnetic field stabiliser BP would produce a Gauss Field Balancer.
This would reduce the amount of useless loot and make NPC farming work with the economy rather than against it. Components could be traded easily and would make manufacturing more interesting.
Discuss....
* activates thermal hardeners and shield booster *
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Entity
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Posted - 2003.08.28 12:51:00 -
[2]
Not bad an idea, not bad at all.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.08.28 12:56:00 -
[3]
I think reversed engineering will solve this, with players building the NPC loot they find to sell on the market. Yes I do believe, most now, rare loot items will be available on the open market at some point, I just hope the mineral requirements reflect them not being commonplace.
Convert Stations
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2003.08.28 13:49:00 -
[4]
From reading the previous dev posts reverse engineering will only work with certain modules none of which are in the game yet. That leads me to believe that you wont be able to reverse engineer any of the loot we currently have in game.
They did indicate in the past that there will be some way to sell named pirate loot through the black market but this wont alievate the basic probelm that NPC loot takes away from the player manufacturers.
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Draco Darkmatter
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:02:00 -
[5]
Componantized maunfacturing is a must. Loot drops from pirates are not. You just blew the pitare ship to hell which ended in a rather large explosion. Can we realy expect to recover much from such an event? And should we find anything that was not installed in the ship? I don't think we should.
This game is intended to be PvP so what are we all playing PvE? Simple there is no reason to interact with other players when we can get everying we need from the Environment. And the possible lose that combat can incure makes many players not want to engage in it.
I have covered this in other postsand do not wish to re-type it all as no one really cared any ways, nor does CCP feel the need to make changes that help improve the game. We get new stuff, which is nice but how about fixing the parts that are broken first? Oh wait, the whole darn thing is broken so lets just add more unbalancing features/restrictions and pretend it will all work its own way out.
"Reality is just a myth...
...or so they tell me." |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2003.08.28 15:55:00 -
[6]
You should be allowed to sell NPC loot. It should not be treated any different than PC items. Competition is the best way to drive an open market.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Anya Stark
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Posted - 2003.08.28 16:28:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
This game is intended to be PvP so what are we all playing PvE? Simple there is no reason to interact with other players when we can get everying we need from the Environment. And the possible lose that combat can incure makes many players not want to engage in it..
Ignoring the other comments, what deluded you into believing that EVE is meant strictly to be PvP? My reading of the box when I bought it gave me a number of choices other than blowing the crap out of other peeps. If this game was PvP only, I wouldn't have bought it. It has PvP elements yes, but there are some and should be more ways to do things in the game other than blow the crap out of each other. Certainly it's hard to roleplay a world where all you do is kill each other all day, and yet somehow invent cooler and cooler stuff. Besides, I find I interact lots with PCs in buying stuff I don't have BPs for, making deals for mins or loot modules, chatting on local for the heck of it, and arranging co-operative ventures for multi-person activities like strip mining, Bist mining, convoy raiding and the like.
Any before I get ****ed on as a carebear I am not for a minute suggesting the level of PvP in EVE is too high, just that you gotta realize that a fighting-only game gets very boring very fast. Having played a lot of shooters and RTSes, I am definitely speaking from experience. Also look at players who thought of this game as basically PvP only. A lot got massively bored and quit (witness how little you see some of the mOo veterans online now).
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Light Kominski
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Posted - 2003.08.28 17:48:00 -
[8]
Nice idea but I think it is biased towards the larger corps/manufacturers. I'm in a small corp and loot from pirates is a very valuable source of minerals, income and equipment. Currently, we don't have the resources to manufacture most of the time.
However, it would be good to have a combination of both so all parties could benefit. For example: pirate loot would drop as normal but a proportion of new items could be modules and/or BPs only. This could be 50% of new tech dropped as pirate loot and 50% as BP or BP enhancements.
This way hunters benefit and manufacturers. 
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2003.08.31 10:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Deadzone on 31/08/2003 10:32:20
You know, this idea has a large merit to it. I think the only large drawback though is it would take a completely new item code, and such to make it work. And the system you are suggesting sounds somewhat like the ssytem that was used in Earth and Beyond. That was the only good thing about that game, I have to add.
Players, given the correct skills, could take components and manufacture them into complete items. And depending on skill, they would have varying attributes to them.
Given the system as it is now, the NPC loot drops really are hurting the economy, and not making it player based as CCP had originally intended. Players can only make basic items, and the only pro to this is cost efectiveness.
But in 80% of the cases, why manufacture these items when you can loot them. This deletes just about any 'economy' there is.
Everything in the game should have BP's or be manuacture with components as was stated here. That would mean people would actually put up demand for fertilizer and water and electronics, and even plutonium, or slaves, etc..EVERYTHING you find on the market. And if an NPC station needs something, then the players can actually make those items and then sell them openly on the market to traders that can then satisfy the PC or NPC demand.
Example. One corp finds an NPC station needing water@ 40isk.unit. That corp can then either produce the water ( if it is a viable profit), or find another PC corp that manufactures water and work out a buy price for 'n' number of units. Then take those water and sell to the NPC station or even PC station etc. This is a total player fed economy.
Or if we go the component route, corp A has the BP to make a needed component to 250mm proto gauss cannons. Corp B has the other component and so makes deals with corp A to buy 'x' amount of that component to make the 250's.
Again, a totally player driven economy, etc.
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Gunship
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Posted - 2003.08.31 11:36:00 -
[10]
good stuff, the current loots are silly.
if nothing else this would add to the overall gameplay
CCP Petition! |
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.09.01 10:11:00 -
[11]
Nice ideas.
Lots of us have been asking for more to construction then there is presently, like requiring trade goods to make things. This would also add nicely to that list.
I still think that loot defeats a player driven economy. You have players making things that are perceived as far inferoir to pirate dropped items (which come for little cost in comparison), which really isn't a good start.
If players were able to make the items, then there would be demand of people wanting them, then perhaps the market would work. Sadly, you would then get all the fighters bored that they only earn money from fighting.
I still think player driven should be exactly that. No manufacturer can compete with someone getting a free-drop and selling it for half-the price of the items they make actually cost them.
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2003.09.02 19:35:00 -
[12]
:bump
This is a REALLY damn good thread and I completely feel the stuff needs to be changed in this general direction for it to work.
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Deadzone
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Posted - 2003.09.12 04:08:00 -
[13]
Anymore comments/ideas on this topic? Add 'em here
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Capt Xpendable
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Posted - 2003.09.12 06:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Capt Xpendable on 12/09/2003 06:25:43
Yes! I have to agree, especially since I've posted the same idea in other threads.
I'm curious if anyone is also playing SWG? I've heard they have things already set up much like this. From what I understand (and please correct me if I'm wrong), not only do NPCs drop items that can be used for manufacturing, but any weapon/armor/etc dropped can be "examined" to create a "schematic" that the players can modify to improve the stats, build, then sell on the market, ensuring that the best items always come from players.
I know they still have lots of bugs and problems (unlike EVE  ) but I'm wondering how EVEs player driven economy will hold up against theirs in the long run.
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"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
The Doctor |
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