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Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sure many have noticed how few people suggest using amarrian drones for anything. The list of most damaging drones goes: Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr. The List of drones from slowest to fastest goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. The list of worst to best tracking goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. The list of best total HP goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar (amarr only has a slight HP advantage over Minmatar.
As you can see, minmatar drones are faster, track better, and deal more damage than amarrian drones. Amarrian drones only top them in hp, but only slightly. I don't get why CCP would make them the weakest drone damage wise when they are not the fastest or best tracking drones either.
Also Amarrian sentries have the second worst range, second worst damage, and second best tracking. I see no reason to use them over Gardes or bouncers I guess the only reason to use them would be for EM damage, but usually hobs perform better as targets weak to EM are weak to thermal as well.
I'm just wondering why the amarr drones were designed this way. Besides possibly needing EM damage type I see no reason to use them over Minmatar drones.
Has CCP ever explained this? Does anyone here have a decent explanation? |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
106
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
You are quite correct about Amarr light, medium, and heavy drones. They are terrible and training Amarr Drone Specialization is a waste of SP.
However sentry drones are an entirely different matter. Curator II's complement Guard II's very well when fighting Sansha or Blood Raiders due to their superior range and more optimal damage type against rats that are weak to EM damage. Personally I carry a flight of Curator II's to pop long range rat BS's and a flight of Guard II's to pop close range rat BS's and cruisers.
Why are things this way? I dunno, maybe CCP will rebalance drones at some point and fix the issue. |
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
451
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
more importantly, when is drone revamp coming? |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2013.10.18 10:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:more importantly, when is drone revamp coming?
Good question... CCP said it's coming soon(tm) ... =P |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12103
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Posted - 2013.10.18 10:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:You are quite correct about Amarr light, medium, and heavy drones. They are terrible and training Amarr Drone Specialization is a waste of SP.
However sentry drones are an entirely different matter. Curator II's complement Guard II's very well when fighting Sansha or Blood Raiders due to their superior range and more optimal damage type against rats that are weak to EM damage. Personally I carry a flight of Curator II's to pop long range rat BS's and a flight of Guard II's to pop close range rat BS's and cruisers.
Why are things this way? I dunno, maybe CCP will rebalance drones at some point and fix the issue.
Curators are excellent for PvP as well. Wardens are the gimp sentry.
1 Kings 12:11
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
327
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Posted - 2013.10.18 11:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's been gone over for years.
The damage modifier for Amarr and Minmatar drones are reversed. Very, very old issue. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
314
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Posted - 2013.10.18 12:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Theory crafting and reality are sometimes so far off. Amarr drones work very nicely if applied against the right target. In particular if you apply them against these ugly shield tanked nano fluff. |
Batelle
RisingSuns
212
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Posted - 2013.10.18 14:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Theory crafting and reality are sometimes so far off. Amarr drones work very nicely if applied against the right target. In particular if you apply them against these ugly shield tanked nano fluff. Sounds like you're the one theory crafting. Fighting is Magic |
stoicfaux
3259
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Posted - 2013.10.18 15:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Antonio Steele wrote:Has CCP ever explained this? Does anyone here have a decent explanation? Drones are slaves. You. Do. NOT. Empower. Your. Slaves. EVER.
Meaning it's a RP/lore thing reflecting the Amarr's psyche in their designs. It's also why Amarr missile ships don't have range bonuses; you keep your slaves (i.e. missiles) on a short leash.
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Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
453
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Posted - 2013.10.18 17:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:You are quite correct about Amarr light, medium, and heavy drones. They are terrible and training Amarr Drone Specialization is a waste of SP.
However sentry drones are an entirely different matter. Curator II's complement Guard II's very well when fighting Sansha or Blood Raiders due to their superior range and more optimal damage type against rats that are weak to EM damage. Personally I carry a flight of Curator II's to pop long range rat BS's and a flight of Guard II's to pop close range rat BS's and cruisers.
Why are things this way? I dunno, maybe CCP will rebalance drones at some point and fix the issue. Curators are excellent for PvP as well. Wardens are the gimp sentry.
wardens used to be go-to for their range. they were the only ones with reliable damage at 100km. now with sentry damage mods and ishtar's new bonuses, curators and bouncers can hit comfortably at 100km, making wardens irrelevant. |
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
913
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Posted - 2013.10.18 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:now with sentry damage mods and ishtar's new bonuses, curators and bouncers can hit comfortably at 100km, making wardens irrelevant.
Also Gardes, thanks to Scope chips. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
210
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Posted - 2013.10.19 00:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:You are quite correct about Amarr light, medium, and heavy drones. They are terrible and training Amarr Drone Specialization is a waste of SP.
However sentry drones are an entirely different matter. Curator II's complement Guard II's very well when fighting Sansha or Blood Raiders due to their superior range and more optimal damage type against rats that are weak to EM damage. Personally I carry a flight of Curator II's to pop long range rat BS's and a flight of Guard II's to pop close range rat BS's and cruisers.
Why are things this way? I dunno, maybe CCP will rebalance drones at some point and fix the issue. Curators are excellent for PvP as well. Wardens are the gimp sentry. wardens used to be go-to for their range. they were the only ones with reliable damage at 100km. now with sentry damage mods and ishtar's new bonuses, curators and bouncers can hit comfortably at 100km, making wardens irrelevant.
Wardens on sniper drone fits that don't want to waste the extra mids just to buff sentries do use them. I would not call them irrelevant at all. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
914
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Posted - 2013.10.19 04:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Curator II's are great. OmniD is your friend.
Warriors are the only light drones that get used besides hobgoblins (out of damage drones) on Angels only, hobbies for everything else. Mediums suck and heavies suck worse. Drone balance definitely needed but not just Amarr. Eve is Real |
Charles Panzram
State War Academy Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.10.19 11:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:You are quite correct about Amarr light, medium, and heavy drones. They are terrible and training Amarr Drone Specialization is a waste of SP.
However sentry drones are an entirely different matter. Curator II's complement Guard II's very well when fighting Sansha or Blood Raiders due to their superior range and more optimal damage type against rats that are weak to EM damage. Personally I carry a flight of Curator II's to pop long range rat BS's and a flight of Guard II's to pop close range rat BS's and cruisers.
Why are things this way? I dunno, maybe CCP will rebalance drones at some point and fix the issue. Curators are excellent for PvP as well. Wardens are the gimp sentry. wardens used to be go-to for their range. they were the only ones with reliable damage at 100km. now with sentry damage mods and ishtar's new bonuses, curators and bouncers can hit comfortably at 100km, making wardens irrelevant. Wardens on sniper drone fits that don't want to waste the extra mids just to buff sentries do use them. I would not call them irrelevant at all.
Yes because those sniper drone fits totally want to fit the sentry drone with the worst tracking and the lowest damage. Tell me just one single situation/fitting were you would want to fit wardens in a pvp situation. Even in pve most of the time you are better off with any of the other sentries. Because even vs targets weak against kin the low damage modifier + the worse tracking offsets the advantage of damage type in my opinion.
As for the topic I find curators very useful for pvp. Second best sentry imo. |
stoicfaux
3267
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Curator II's are great. OmniD is your friend.
Warriors are the only light drones that get used besides hobgoblins (out of damage drones) on Angels only, hobbies for everything else. Mediums suck and heavies suck worse. Drone balance definitely needed but not just Amarr. Actually... elite Angel frigates (Angel Viper/Webifier) are weakest to thermal. Plus, they shield boost and their shields are good against explosive. T1 NPC frigs die very quickly regardless of damage type, so there's not much reason to use anything but Hobgoblins against NPC frigates.
Angel Viper, EHP versus: EM: 2589 Expl: 2000 Kin: 2010 Therm: 1815
Angel Webifier, EHP versus: EM: 1911 Expl: 1546 Kin: 1541 Therm: 1377
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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
588
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Curator II's are great. OmniD is your friend.
Warriors are the only light drones that get used besides hobgoblins (out of damage drones) on Angels only, hobbies for everything else. Mediums suck and heavies suck worse. Drone balance definitely needed but not just Amarr.
Actually I quite like the caldari drones. The better shields + faster speed (go figure... ) makes them more likely to get back to the drone bay without needing repairs. It also means they will start applying damage to their target sooner
Their kinetic damage is actually better agaisnt serpentis and guristas than Thermal (more relevant against enemies with high resists than low ones). Their tracking is higher - although their orbit velocity is also higher, when engaging a relatively fast moving target, the relative transversal drops, and the caldari drones track better.
Together these somewhat compensate for the lower damage modifier.
Also, they are often much cheaper to replace. |
Kaelnor Heidan
Supermassive Singularity
5
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I did the maths once. It's easy to do with a simple spreadsheet.
Basically, by calculating the time to kill, Acolytes and Infiltrators only get a slight advantage against EM weak NPCs AND if there's some distance to cover (30km or so depending on NPC ehp) as they travel faster. Otherwise, Hobs and Hammers are always better.
So, they fill a really really tight and uncomfortable niche at the moment. But lets face it, drones badly need work, all of them ...
Curators are fine and balanced sentries, I use them a lot on my Armageddon. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1651
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Posted - 2013.10.19 16:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Curator II's are great. OmniD is your friend.
Warriors are the only light drones that get used besides hobgoblins (out of damage drones) on Angels only, hobbies for everything else. Mediums suck and heavies suck worse. Drone balance definitely needed but not just Amarr. Actually I quite like the caldari drones. The better shields + faster speed (go figure... ) makes them more likely to get back to the drone bay without needing repairs. It also means they will start applying damage to their target sooner Their kinetic damage is actually better agaisnt serpentis and guristas than Thermal (more relevant against enemies with high resists than low ones). Their tracking is higher - although their orbit velocity is also higher, when engaging a relatively fast moving target, the relative transversal drops, and the caldari drones track better. Together these somewhat compensate for the lower damage modifier. Also, they are often much cheaper to replace.
Hornet IIs are definitely an often-overlooked gem.
But yes, Acolytes are still terrible no matter how you look at it.
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Mukiraninha
Lone Lion Corporation
5
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Posted - 2013.10.20 19:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:more importantly, when is drone revamp coming?
+1 for drone revamp! |
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.10.21 16:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'll admit. I had never tried curators before making this thread. I have now and I will admit they do work well. They still are off as far as uniform progression goes. They should do more damage than bouncers and less than gardes given their tracking and range. Even though they are the second weakest DPS wise they still worked great when I fought some Sansha rats in an L4 with my Domi. However, with max skills and 3 T2 omni's a domi can reach 70km with just Garde 2's, and that's before scope chip rigs. I hope they buff the rattler with a domi style sentry bonus when the pirate BS's get redone. |
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Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
310
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Amarr drone user checking in.
I use them for two reasons. They look awesome, and I am an amarrian elitist.
Long live jamyl!! "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
18
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Well there really is no such thing as empire specific drones realistically speaking. Yes there is a skill dedicated to each factions drones but yeh nothing mind blowing. The only problem I really see is Amarrian scout drones, anything between scout and sentry is garbage "Welcome to drones!!". |
Janna Sway
53
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Posted - 2013.11.13 00:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:Well there really is no such thing as empire specific drones realistically speaking. Yes there is a skill dedicated to each factions drones but yeh nothing mind blowing. The only problem I really see is Amarrian scout drones, anything between scout and sentry is garbage "Welcome to drones!!".
However, Amarr pilots have a general ship setup option that turns Amarr drones into the most OP of all drones for a particular purpose and a good reason to not buff them. I leave it to you to figure it out. |
Janna Sway
53
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Posted - 2013.11.13 00:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Antonio Steele wrote:I'm sure many have noticed how few people suggest using amarrian drones for anything. The list of most damaging drones goes: Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr. The List of drones from slowest to fastest goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. The list of worst to best tracking goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. The list of best total HP goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar (amarr only has a slight HP advantage over Minmatar.
As you can see, minmatar drones are faster, track better, and deal more damage than amarrian drones. Amarrian drones only top them in hp, but only slightly. I don't get why CCP would make them the weakest drone damage wise when they are not the fastest or best tracking drones either.
Also Amarrian sentries have the second worst range, second worst damage, and second best tracking. I see no reason to use them over Gardes or bouncers I guess the only reason to use them would be for EM damage, but usually hobs perform better as targets weak to EM are weak to thermal as well.
I'm just wondering why the amarr drones were designed this way. Besides possibly needing EM damage type I see no reason to use them over Minmatar drones.
Has CCP ever explained this? Does anyone here have a decent explanation?
Well, I learned to adore Amarr drones. Just have to know for what purpose they are plainly overpowered and use them for that purpose. |
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Phobia.
255
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Posted - 2013.11.13 03:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'll be sad when CCP has time to balance drones. They will hit sentry drones with a nerfbat from hell. their tracking will be so **** the gallente ships will be **** once more. goodby domi and ishtar i loved you :( |
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
7
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Posted - 2013.11.13 05:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Hornet IIs are definitely an often-overlooked gem.
Shhhh.
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Grandma Squirel
46
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Posted - 2013.11.13 06:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
From what I see on the field for PVP:
Light: Warriors - Swarms to blot out the sun Hobgoblins - Uncommon, but respected choice for those going for max potential small drone damage Acolye - Occasionally used by CVA for RP reasons
Medium: Hammerhead - Rare, like hobgoblins, in the right circumstance, they provide the most damage for 50 drone bandwidth ships. Most people will take 5 Warriors, and some ECM drones instead Other medium drones are so rare your likely to confuse your target about what the drone does.
Heavy: Ogre - Don't see very much since sentries became FOTM, but if your using heavies, this is probably what you have. Beserker - Rare, but you do see them from time to time
Sentry: Garde - Everyone uses, first choice for large drone damage dealing Bouncer/Curator - Long range choice, dunno which is most popular
Other Drones: EC-300 - Everywhere Shield/Armor - Usually only with bigger fleets, with really dedicated logi
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
708
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Posted - 2013.11.13 08:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:I'll be sad when CCP has time to balance drones. They will hit sentry drones with a nerfbat from hell. their tracking will be so **** the gallente ships will be **** once more. goodby domi and ishtar i loved you :(
I hope you are wrong on that. Sentry drones are the hardest drones to trian and have a large drawback on mobile gangs, therefore its natural for them to be the most powerful form of drones.
A simple yet effective nerf would be to increase their sginature, so they are easier to lock and shoot. Static drones shoudl be easy to kill. and that would balance things pretty well "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
7
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Grandma Squirel wrote:Other Drones: EC-300 - Everywhere
Do these things even work anymore?
On the test server I have yet to get a single jam with them no matter what I sic em on.
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L'ouris
1st Steps Academy Fidelas Constans
82
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zeba wrote:Grandma Squirel wrote:Other Drones: EC-300 - Everywhere Do these things even work anymore? On the test server I have yet to get a single jam with them no matter what I sic em on.
Pretty sure that the general rule is that they never work FOR you, but always seem to work AGAINST you.
Your experience sounds normal to me :) |
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