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ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.01.31 09:55:00 -
[1]
I am going to train Astrometrics level 5 but I am not sure if probes in current stateare usable at all because of their 1AU above/below plane range.
I talked with GMs about this but I don't belive them too much. They told me to test probes on my own on test server. Problem is I want to know how Deep Space Discovery probe works but I can't use it before Astometrics lvl5 is trained. SiSi is useless in such cases which is a problem too (+100 implants and seeding market with tech2/faction ships ftw).
My corpmate offered me opportunity to use his character for test purposes but it's against EULA. That's why I have to ask community for help.
Let's assume system like 93PI-4 where there are two gates one above the other with range of multiple AUs (10 or above). Enemy places safespot between gates farther than 1AU from each gate.
You can't scan for such safespot using any of regular probes because they have vertical range of 1AU only. You can try to drop your own safespot close enough but because of lag and inability to see range on scanner it will take ages (you need to launch probes each time to check if they are 1AU from target).
Solution is to use Discovery Deep Space Probes. They should find safespot anywhere in the system. According to info they scan OUTSIDE of 1AU range. According to GMs: "Observator scans everything in the system, no matter the range". I asked how to use DSP to scan and I got this answer: "The three results from the Deep space probe will create the correct place for which to scan. You then deploy ferrets 192 AUs and so on."
Can someone test it for me in stated above situation? I don't waste 17 day of training for another useless game feature.
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Jon Hawkes
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Posted - 2006.01.31 10:06:00 -
[2]
In theory, everything you have said so far is correct. However, the Observators are the only probes to scan in full 3d, and with their wildly inaccurate scan results, this effectively means that you can potentially end up up to 50-60AU away from your target, way above or below their position, thus rendering the 192AU probes useless for further scanning due to the 1AU "thickness" you mentioned.
~Free production, refining and POS resouces site~ |
ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.01.31 10:14:00 -
[3]
I know it. One guy at forums said DSP always return results from the same plane as scanning target. I can't check it so I asked GM's. Looks like GM's think DSP SHOULD work when you use 3 results. I just need someone to test it for me.
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Jon Hawkes
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Posted - 2006.01.31 11:09:00 -
[4]
I've used Observators and they pick up ships from all over the system, not just the same plane as the target. What did the GMs mean by "use 3 results" ,as the Observators only need one probe to scan, not 3.
~Free production, refining and POS resouces site~ |
ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.01.31 11:19:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jon Hawkes
I've used Observators and they pick up ships from all over the system, not just the same plane as the target. What did the GMs mean by "use 3 results" ,as the Observators only need one probe to scan, not 3.
I think you need to do analyze 3 times. And than place other probes in those positions.
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Harlequinn
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Posted - 2006.01.31 15:14:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Harlequinn on 31/01/2006 15:16:34
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
I've used Observators and they pick up ships from all over the system, not just the same plane as the target. What did the GMs mean by "use 3 results" ,as the Observators only need one probe to scan, not 3.
I think you need to do analyze 3 times. And than place other probes in those positions.
Those 3 results will not nessecarily form a plane that will surround what you are looking for. You have to keep scanning until you get a BM close enough to your target to see it on scanner. Then you need to find it's relative direction from the bookmarks you have collected.
Then, by short-warping between your bookmarks and warpable objects that take you closer to your target you can eventually work yourself into a few positions where you can drop probes and scan out what you are looking for.
It's extraorinarly tedious work, but the pay off can be huge. The thing is, it takes dedication and concentration and lots and lots of time. Observators and deep SS probing are definatley not for eveyone in this game. Probing is an art, not a science. It takes practice, patience, and an intuitive sense of how to move yourself around in deep space using only bookmarks and short-warping.
Good luck, but not everyone can make probes work.
--Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.-- |
ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.01.31 16:23:00 -
[7]
So it looks like GM was wrong about probes. Well I have nothing against art and dedication if you are going to find ships left in space. Problem is to find people in safespots you can't warp through all system all day. Probe visibility on scanner is a huge problem by itself. Making scanning such long process is wrong. Probes should make finding safespots in reasonable time - about 5-10min is maximum.
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Harlequinn
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
So it looks like GM was wrong about probes. Well I have nothing against art and dedication if you are going to find ships left in space. Problem is to find people in safespots you can't warp through all system all day. Probe visibility on scanner is a huge problem by itself. Making scanning such long process is wrong. Probes should make finding safespots in reasonable time - about 5-10min is maximum.
Regardless of what the devs say, probing is not an effective way of finding safespotted hostiles. It is possible, and does get done. I've done it. However, if the person(s) you are probing for is(are) halfway competent they will never be found.
If they are at a Deep SS, forget it. They'd have to be morons to be found in a Deep SS. It takes way too long to find the spot itself and then you'd be the only thing on their scanner when you drop probes.
Abandoned ships are one thing, they don't move. Hostiles can be found, but honestly, not if they know what they are doing. Probes are to easy to detect and avoid. Probes keep a competent hostile moving, nothing more.
--Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.-- |
Chith
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Posted - 2006.01.31 17:46:00 -
[9]
The probes do indeed work, but are terrifically unintuitive. Just toss out any real-world assumptions you may make on their functionality and attempt to divine an idea of how they work from what you observe. It may take a while and a lot of practice. Once you have things down though, you can fairly reliably nail safespots and deepsafes without relying on outright chance.
I'd like to take this opportunity to once again mention that scan times should be reduced...
-chith
"He ne'er is crowned with immortality Who fears to follow where airy voices lead." --Keats
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Kassad
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Posted - 2006.02.01 03:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Kassad on 01/02/2006 03:47:45
Probes are borked period. They're ability to only scan 1/2 au vertically (1 au in total) from the plane you are on is useless. Especially when the full system probes can return results up to 80au vertically from the target.
Scanning super deeps is an art form and that is no mistake. I reckon there are probably less than 5% of everyone with astrometrics lvl 5 that can can scan out a ss more than 50 or 60au out of system. Even then, it's down to how nice the probes feel like being and could take anything up to an hour. Even on a completely stationary empty ship!!
Being so far out of the system is a joke too! I was in YZ-LQL when I took this screenie (system glowing in the centre)
Linkage
Basically don't bother wasting your time training level 5 of this skill until CCP stop taking the mick and fix the damn scan probes.
Signature removed - File size too large.Laurelin |
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