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Leavon Brax
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Posted - 2003.08.29 05:13:00 -
[1]
 I just heard that you intend to nerf Bookmarks, just what are you thinking? There are many of us that have spent countless hours surveying routes and creating bookmarks that speed up travel and yes reduce exposure to the less savory types that inhabit those areas of greatest reward. I would kindly state a phrase that was told to me numerous times in the past, "If its not broke, don't fix it". Stop catering to the players that whine the most and acknowledge that some of us have found a means to thwart their activities to a greater extent. Even with these surveyed routes we sometimes end up off the mark so there is a randomness to their effectiveness and we are still vulnerable at times. I'm not easy prey, I would think that any pirate worth their weight would enjoy a challenging opponent rather than easy pickings or have you guys just gotten lazy. |
Iminay
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Posted - 2003.08.29 08:31:00 -
[2]
Oh great
yea ccp
add content instead of "fixing" things that arent even broken.
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AnjinSan
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Posted - 2003.08.29 08:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: AnjinSan on 29/08/2003 08:47:59
Edited by: AnjinSan on 29/08/2003 08:47:34
Yes I agree !
Pleas donĘt take away the ability to warp closer to gates. I donĘt se it at all as a exploit, more like a move from a really serious Eve player.
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Syme
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Posted - 2003.08.29 10:33:00 -
[4]
I'm an indy pilot pure and simple and getting rid of bookmarks would absolutely ruin my gameplay.
I will have three choices, become a manufacturer/researcher and sit in a station all the time (I sit in an office all day so that is not for me), become a battleship pilot (I've only trained lvl 2 cruiser skill after 2 months in Eve so that shows my interest in fighting), or become an explorer in a fast frigate (which is something I have enjoyed doing already, however as I won't be able to bookmark anything this will be pretty pointless).
Of course I have another option and that is to leave altogether.
Please, please, please do not get rid of bookmarks.
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Athan
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Posted - 2003.08.29 10:46:00 -
[5]
The problem is the black and whiteness of it all.
Right now if you have a good bookmark for a gate you WILL always get through, modulo incredible lag loading after warp or a CTD. This is not a desireable situation (just wait until you're trying to protect an area and can't catch invaders because they got time to make such bookmarks).
Obviously if blockaders can ALWAYS catch someone trying to get past that is also bad.
As for "but now I CAN'T get past the blockade, whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnne" people. Sorry, but you'll just have to work harder at it. Everytime I take a certain trip I actively avoid a known blockade, taking the trip that is 13 jumps or so longer. Well worth it for the added safety IMO.
If you find such blockades a REAL problem then start trying to organise people to actively break them.
Oh, and btw devs, I'm not certain I'd like it yet, but you should consider doing the same thing for stations.
-Ath
--
http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery |
Syme
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Posted - 2003.08.29 10:58:00 -
[6]
It's not the blockades that I mind. If I want to get through those then my corp will fight. It is the massive increase in time spent travelling towards the gates in a indy that only goes at 200m/s.
I am simply not prepared to look at a screen showing my ship gently making its way towards a gate for hours on end or having to make double the runs just to shift the same amount of goods.
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Faustus
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Posted - 2003.08.29 12:38:00 -
[7]
Another Time Sink.....
CCP when you removed the out of warp use of MWD and AB, you added a time sink to the game as it then became a pain to manually click on these modules as you drop out of warp while trying to avoid CTD, bounce, lag etc....
Fine...a little harsh (could have allowed us to activate modules in warp, but not let them become active until we drop out of warp)
Now you are proposing removing bookmarks from gates. Well, what are you going to balance this with? faster ships.....drop out closer to gate? unlikely...please try and understand that most players also work and spending 50% of my time travelling does not make an enjoyable game
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.08.29 12:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Johnson McCrae on 29/08/2003 12:56:21
Ok, there seems to be a lack of READING going on here. Alot of you are misinterpreting what was said.
What will be NERFED, is your jumping on top of the gates. Its people who use bookmarks to instajump that will be nerfed, not all bookmarks.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Aelita
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Posted - 2003.08.29 14:07:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
Edited by: Johnson McCrae on 29/08/2003 12:56:21
Ok, there seems to be a lack of READING going on here. Alot of you are misinterpreting what was said.
What will be NERFED, is your jumping on top of the gates. Its people who use bookmarks to instajump that will be nerfed, not all bookmarks.
No matter of what it's nerf and it would lead in "Time Sink". I'm using instajump bookmarks for even 1.0 security system travel. Did you try daily haul over 15mil tritanium over 10 gates?
Try it and you will feel what removing instajump make pain in your ass. Probably you will leave EVE like me...
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Pradoker
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Posted - 2003.08.29 14:38:00 -
[10]
Quote:
No matter of what it's nerf and it would lead in "Time Sink". I'm using instajump bookmarks for even 1.0 security system travel. Did you try daily haul over 15mil tritanium over 10 gates?
Try it and you will feel what removing instajump make pain in your ass. Probably you will leave EVE like me...
Yes, it will be a pain...but space travel is long and is dangerous. And that is what CCP wants it to be like.
Right now you are playing it smart by avoiding pirates and their blockades but what is more boring...mining for 5 hours or making 10 jumps back to HQ's so you can refine without encountering a single other ship. CCP has to make this game more fun and this will help.
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eriq
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Posted - 2003.08.29 15:02:00 -
[11]
i think the answer to this will be creating bm's at the very edge of your viewing ability to a jumpgate, like 80-120km out from your target location. this way you can surveil the area without putting yourself in too much danger.
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Klydor
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Posted - 2003.08.29 16:16:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Klydor on 29/08/2003 16:19:10
Theres quite a few threads on this topic already, and to sum it up, the indy pilots (in the main) are the ones complaining.
Yes they are correct it will take more time, but then playing this game is not meant to be quick and easy. The super highway was put it to make travel faster for the majority of players. If you want quick profit use them.
If however you want bigger profit then you have to put up with longer more time consuming routes. For those who cannot see the bigger picture, without these changes, the majority of combat pilots (pirates or good corp pilots) will quit playing. Because it is too difficult to force a fight to occur, it is 100% safe for everyone to avoid by using a few bookmarks and the invulnerability timer.
If these combat pilots quit then very soon the ship builders will leave after all who wants to buy a new ship when they already have the best one out there and no chance of it been destroyed?
If the builders leave then the miners have no point to the game, why mine to get mineral if you can only sell a bit of it to NPC's and all the pc demand has left.
If all those leave then your left with traders, who granted can carry on trading, but the point must be asked, why? Why do you need isk in that case?
Although I'm sorry to see instajump bookmarks go, I would be sorrier to see a vast number of players eventually leave because the game makes combat too difficult.
Also those who say make new modules /skills to allow players to still use instajump bookmarks. This wouldn't work as over time everyone would have them, it would just remedy the situation for a very short time.
These changes will finally make blockades possible, when coupled with a warp tracker they will finally allow blockades to be broken rahter than scattered and reformed when everyone is bored of chasing each other.
In time new modules such as cloaking etc will make it possible for some players to run blockades undetected.But perhaps those players will make a 1/2 profit due to less cargo space. Its all a trade off.
Yes travel will take longer, but the advantages well outnumber the disadvantages. I'm sure CCP have thought long and hard about the repercussions of these changes. However at the moment bookmarks are been abused, instajumping just isn't fun for anybody other than the few traders who would rather everyone else leave out of bordem than their game be altered slightly.
Now you know how the pirates felt when sentry guns went up all over empire space. They moaned, but in the end it was for the best, they can now hunt in 0.0. This is a change that is neither in their favour nor against, it will allow them to kill more players yes, but it also means players have a chance to kill the pirates as well. A good trade in my opinion.
Also player who currently run into blockades without first using their scanners when they see others in local deserve the pirates catching them. Why don't they use the scanners? Because it takes time, but then thats how travel should be, those who are willing to take a lot longer will have near 0 risk and less profit. Those who are eager or willing to take a much bigger risk will make more.
Those willing to take even more risk and additional time to travel into 0.0 space on longer jumps will make more, but equally risk more.
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Gurenus
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Posted - 2003.08.29 17:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Gurenus on 29/08/2003 17:21:59
There is one more thing about this change no one thinking about - financial. Sometimes making game harder doesn't mean more profitable. If we look to major eve population - most of them are cruiser - indy pilots wich play only in weekends and want to recive enjoiment from game.And they give most profit to CCP.
If the game would require to much time to make some money or it will be too hard they'll quit and we'll see one more demographical boom. Think about this.
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SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.08.29 19:58:00 -
[14]
For the purist you are 100% correct in yoru viewpoint but if the game isn't tailored to the masses then it will fail(financially). For those of you who think using bookmarks are only used for getting by blockades then you are missing the point. Spending an hour in an indy for a 10 jump trip doesn't become more enjoyable it becomes painfully boring after a while. Take away being able to shorten the travel time will in time lead to fewer people playing, a trend that doesn't benefit anyone.
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Gafton
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Posted - 2003.08.29 20:04:00 -
[15]
This change is coming about for fighting. As it stands now anyone can create bookmarks for instajumps out of a system. What's the point in having a blockade if someone can easily get by it? The mechanics for pvp in this game are in need of serious adjustment. There is no way for people to ambush others, or to setup a blockade. Both are easily avoided leaving pvp to suffer. Take a hypothetical system. It has 1 station a couple planets and 1 jumpgate. Force A has setup ships at the station and jumpgates and has a group searching for Force B. Force B has bookmarks for the station and jumpgate making exit safe either way. If Force A were to find Force B, Force B could then warp away before Force A has time to scramble Force B. Force B then jumps to the jumpgate bookmark, and leaves the system.
What is the point then in trying to kill someone if they can run away if they feel they will lose? There is no way for a skilled force to attack another skilled force if the second group doesnt want to fight. This leaves the the unskilled player to be killed and and pirated. This player then comes to the forums and whines that he/she was killed by pirates and it's unfair. Any kind of tactical or stratigic battle is therefore not possible.
This patch makes it so that when a blockade is setup, people cant easily get by it. It would then require work, something some people dont like to do.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Octavius
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Posted - 2003.08.29 21:11:00 -
[16]
Instead of nerfing bookmarks, why not have a module that scrambles coordinates of bookmarks.
So that anyone jumping into a blockade is dropped at the normal jumpgate or station approach point. That way anyone using bookmarks for trade or mining will still be able to eliminate the tedious process of approaching a station or jumpgate. The pirates get their shot at their intended victims and the the result is the same as nerfing bookmarks all together.
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Yggdrassil
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Posted - 2003.08.30 00:36:00 -
[17]
Actually, there's a solution to the instant jump points that could make all happy.
Make a "sphere" around the warp gate, approx 35 km wide.. If one player is inside the sphere, all jumps from other players (possibly exept ganged ppl/ppl from same corp) are prohibited INSIDE the sphere.
That way - if someone are blockading the gate - they'll have to travel 20 km to jump - or turn around, if that's their choise.
If no-one is camping - you'll get your instant-jump.
Possibly even better if the sphere you have to be inside to "lock" the instant-jump is 15 km (inside jump-range).
Been twisting my mind - can't see any backdraft with this suggestion (x'ept that you can't avoid fight with instant-jump - and that's kind of the point, right! )
Any thoughts for/against?
Yggdrassil |
Syme
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Posted - 2003.09.01 12:32:00 -
[18]
Reasonable ideas both, I especially like the bookmark scrambler. Another solution may be to only nerf the instajump bookmarks in 0.0 space.
I have been reconsidering my rather quick decision to quit (an overreactio and also because I can't sell my character for isk only $ it seems) and have decided to stay as I do enjoy the game and the company of my corp mates.
I am however finishing my indy career to move to become a pirate hunter. No doubt a number of other indy pilots will do the same, which should leave the trade goods market a little bit more open for the newer players who want to find good trade routes.
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Shadowlord
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Posted - 2003.09.01 19:38:00 -
[19]
to the person who said they only do 200 m/s in their indy....What kind of crap navigation skills do you have? I personnally go 364 m/s in my bestower and have 9800 cargo. I have no problem with removing instant jump bookmarks.
My only problem is with the gates that you warp in 40km away or so.
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