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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:14:00 -
[1]
Every other major MMOPG and website gets regular DOS attacks. It seem to me, the only one I can see that can't protect against the most simple and frequent DOS attacks is CCP.
have you guys got any competant network engineers or is someone else programming your routers? It's a mess and you should get your act together.
The fact that it is happening so frequently shows that it is a simple DOS attack - you should have that sorted even before you went live.
Please tell us whats happening and stop putting your heads in the sand again.
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Aelius
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:16:00 -
[2]
I back you up on this! 
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Aenedor
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:17:00 -
[3]
So.... you can't log in either then?
"are you a winner or a whiner?" |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:22:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Winterblink on 29/08/2003 18:22:34
Say you're set up to reject offending packets. Your device goes Oh look, a bad packet. *toss* Look another. *toss* Multiply that by a zillion times a second and the few good packets that get through are being drowned out by the others. The only way to truly protect against it is to have a backup connection that isn't being attacked or to hunt down and string up by the balls the idiot out there doing the ddos attack.
You can have the fattest pipe in the world, but if it's always being filled with **** then not a lot of water's going to get through.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:33:00 -
[5]
There are work arounds. This has happened in every game ive played. Every other operator hsa figured a way round it.
They didnt all rely on pure TCP packets tho, except for AO at the start. It's a stupid way to do things. That's why they're ******.
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:43:00 -
[6]
The standard solution for many companies is to install a massive pipe, or move to an ISP who has massive pipes itself.
Both of these options can cost a lot of money, and this creates a chicken and egg situation as CCP need large number of customers to fund such an upgrade.
Relic
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Shamrock
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:44:00 -
[7]
Thanks Winterblink for putting things in easy terms. I don't know squat about dos attacks and the like. I just hope ccp can nail this thing down before I give up because I don't want to pay 13 bucks a month and only enjoy a certain percentage of time in eve. It could be that I feel impatient today because I have some skills trained that opened up the door to other things that I can toy with.
Shamrock
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BH Latro
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:52:00 -
[8]
"They didnt all rely on pure TCP packets tho, except for AO at the start. It's a stupid way to do things. That's why they're ******."
 Now thats funny....
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Klydor
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:55:00 -
[9]
Whats funny about it? Most online games use UDP packets since TCP tries to do way too much in terms of error handling.
Although I guess its funny in that no matter which packet you use, UDP or TCP your still stuffed from DOS :)
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Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:57:00 -
[10]
TCP also insists on keeping the stream sequential, which leads to things just stalling on 1 packet. It's good for web browsing.. it's totally **** for online games. That's why people put their own UDP layer in.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.08.29 18:58:00 -
[11]
Beginners guide for DDOS attack:
Get yourself a server version for a trojan (this will infect yourself too...), spread this trojan at least 100-1000 times to other computers.
Make a script that will cause all these computers to send a signal all at once to the port you selected (over 10k to chose from)... And press start...
There will be send so much traffic that the servers cannot keep it up and will start going a. Down b. flapping c. other...
If you read this, do you think you can protect your computer from this? Not many people can...
I know about 20 sites (40k people who read it) who done alot to prevent this stuff, and every time it happens they just have to put their servers off to prevent the bandwith costs becomming too expensive... Yes it doesnt only cause you trouble, it costs CCP TONS of money since bandwith isnt free...
And its so hard to trace someone who does a DDOS attack, because there are so many people who dont use firewalls or virusscanners.
Its a huge problem we wont see fixed in the near 5 to 10 years i believe.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.08.29 19:02:00 -
[12]
Edited by: StealthNet on 29/08/2003 19:13:53
There are no ways to defeat a good DDoS attack (we are not talking here about a DoS). You can soften the results, try to make a workaround, with backup backbones. But once you have limited bandwidth, you are subject to attacks.
You can filter out packets. Yes, you can, but the only way to defeat it is to filter out every single tcp and udp port (guess what: your service will be filtered out too).
Once you have at least 1 port for a connection, you have everything you need for a DDoS. That port may run flawless, but DDoS are simple bandwidth issues.
Some recomendations I would like to make to CCP guys:
1. ask your backbone provider (Cable & Wireless) to filter out EVERY following packet in or out 166.62.210.0 (it appears to be the source of the problems, but I don't know how this network is subneted):
ICMP packet IN and OUT
UDP packet IN and OUT
TCP packet IN and OUT EXCEPT the ports used by EVE
2. if your border gateway (router) is configured to filter packets, thats a no-no. You are prolly running out of mem and cpu. Buy a specialized hardware for that work or leave it to Cable and Wireless. Ask them to solve their problems because leaving the router at 166.63.210.62 and .61 changing routes every time they find the traffic is heavy will bring more problems than solving (every route change brings a hickup ingame - and one is happening every 30 seconds).
3. depending on the operating system used by the proxies, configure their TCPIP stack to be less polite with half open connections. If you are using a layer4 switching with forwarding, than config that equipment to drop from the table as quickly as possible half-open connections. Windows 2000, Linux, UNIX, almost every OS out there has a tcpip option to be more agressive regarding to syn attacks.
4. basic homework: make sure everything that has a tcpip stack in your network is configured to NOT allow source routing, router discovery, blackhole discovery, etc. Use static routes as much as possible to take some load out. Also (I suppose you have firewalls), config the fws to *drop* packets instead of refusing them; config them to drop strange source and destination address sets (example: inbound traffic with source address inside your network, with lookback or multicast addresses). Same thing for outbound packets (drop packets with source address different from your internal network).
I suppose you guys already did everything in this list right ? because atm, I'm getting 60% packet loss.
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Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.08.29 19:12:00 -
[13]
I very much doubt it - they seem pretty clueless on network stuff.
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