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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 889	Posted - 2013.10.27 07:09:00 - [31] - Quote Lana Elora wrote: Princess Sasha wrote: all CCP needs to do here is change the respawn timer to mirror that of a static wormhole. When one incursion goes down another one respawns and off you go. This would solve most all with one simple change of incursion mechanics. No need to do anything further. Have a nice day. This changes nothing. The incursion would spawn, people would grind the bar, kill the mom, move to the next. All you solve is the "weekend without incursion" problem, but not the actual issue presented by the OP. A more concrete solution would be as somebody said: Keep the bar at 95 to 100% for 1 to 5 hours for the mom to spawn, and make it a lot harder to keep 100% If you don't manage that the mom will spawn at day 6 when the incursion goes into withdrawal regardless of red bar. This will not only insure that incursions stay up for at least enough time to say, get home from work.... But it will also in some cases keep an incursion alive for up to 6 days. Please don't misinterpret my earlier post. I have absolutely no desire to see Incursions kept open for six days and think it's terrible when they're allowed to last that long. For me, Incursions in my home constellation mean it's time to pack up my ships and POS and live somewhere else instead. No, I don't want Incursions kept open longer for more people to farm them. I simply want to see the tools that people use to throw little hissy-fit tantrums taken away from them. As long as they're going to exist, they should exist in a state where they can't be manipulated to cause drama or easily farmed like ultra-high-payout missions.
Jedediah Arndtz Warner Bros. 17	Posted - 2013.10.27 07:45:00 - [32] - Quote +1
marVLs 488	Posted - 2013.10.27 07:56:00 - [33] - Quote I just want more incursion version, like Angel, Guristas and some for gallente site. So instead of multi sansha incursions there will be one of every kind in the same time.
Deithess 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:25:00 - [34] - Quote marVLs wrote: I just want more incursion version, like Angel, Guristas and some for gallente side. So instead of multi sansha incursions there will be one of every kind in the same time. MarVLs are you thinking about gaining faction LPs also ? I mean, let's face it, you can get Minmatar LPs only by running incursions against Angels (for example). Not only CONCORD LPs or instead of CONCORD LPs. Also it will be a change for those who are active in Faction warfare.
Kranyoldlady European Nuthouse 19	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:27:00 - [35] - Quote In my opinion incursions are fine as they are, a bit annoying, of some reasons the OP metioned, but such is the sand box. Welcome to Eve Online. What i like to see, yet im not sure if that will work, so i leave that to ccp, is: - Make incursions more pvp like. With this i mean, back in the day of btl and tdf, we ran with ships that were more pvp geared then today. Make it so that if an Incursion spawns we can safely kill pvp lowsec like, without concord interferring. This might give more people the incentive to venture in lowsec or null sec. Wich is nice for the Eve economy. -Make it harder And i mean really harder, 2 or more livevents together harder. So we have a reason to tank our ships again. If this is inplemented, things will change in the incursionworld. If a froup feels like they can kill the mom because [insert a crybaby reason here] but other runners can 'safely' without concord, kill them on gridd, they probebly think twice the next time. This, in my vieuw can change the status quo in Incursionland to the point it helps ccp in the end by having more people venturing into low sec or null sec. My 2 cents
Jason din-Alt Shady endeavours 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:30:00 - [36] - Quote Kranyoldlady wrote: In my opinion incursions are fine as they are, a bit annoying, of some reasons the OP metioned, but such is the sand box. Welcome to Eve Online. +1
Jason din-Alt Shady endeavours 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:31:00 - [37] - Quote Kranyoldlady wrote: - Make incursions more pvp like. With this i mean, back in the day of btl and tdf, we ran with ships that were more pvp geared then today. Make it so that if an Incursion spawns we can safely kill pvp lowsec like, without concord interferring. -1. Go to lowsec incurion and knock yourself out, leave hi-sec to carebears. P. S. Does this forum allow deleting posts?
Fietspomp EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:43:00 - [38] - Quote I dunno, I quite like incursions as they are right now, generally speaking. However, I also think they have been fully explored - as in, people know the risks, what fleet composition to bring, and how to run them as fast as possible. Incursion running has been fully optimized. Maybe it's time to introduce a new difficulty level for the high-end incursion running communities? Or make it so that people in all levels of incursions (scout, vanguard, assault & HQ) need to kill a "mothership" before the incursion pops - and of course limit the hull size of lower-level sites, if that isn't already the case. This wouldn't stop persistent communities from popping the incursion sites though. The simplest thing to implement would be to have a minimum incursion lifetime before the mothership appears. Either just a timer (>24 - 48 hours - randomizing the time the mothership appears would also be nice), or a 'max influence change / hour' limitation. They just need a rebalance to adjust to the higher-level ships doing them. Without making them inaccessible to newer players - 3 months to run vanguards effectively sounds good to me. In practice it'll be more than that, since the 3 months is with a specialized skill plan (i.e. it's the minimum, optimal training time).
Kranyoldlady European Nuthouse 19	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:48:00 - [39] - Quote Jason din-Alt wrote: Kranyoldlady wrote: - Make incursions more pvp like. With this i mean, back in the day of btl and tdf, we ran with ships that were more pvp geared then today. Make it so that if an Incursion spawns we can safely kill pvp lowsec like, without concord interferring. -1. Go to lowsec incurion and knock yourself out, leave hi-sec to carebears. P. S. Does this forum allow deleting posts? If highsec Incursions are endgame, then logic tells me the next step is low sec or null sec. You know and i do, Incursions are mostly ran by low or null sec alts to fund their pvp habit, in highsec. Nice and save right? Its not like the high sec bears need to run Incursions to fund their mining... Add a little pvp to the high sec Incursions to prepare pilots and stop the drama in Incursionland, nothing wrong with that, in fact it will get more people into low or null sec. Because after 2 years -isch of running Incursions, beeing the endgame what else is there for carebears? It is called endgame for a reason imo
Sentenced 1989 Quantum Anomaly Corporation 16	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:58:00 - [40] - Quote To be honest, I would make only 3 changes to incursions. For quick summary: 1. Incursion bar Make it so it can have delta of 5-10% per hour (to ensure at least 10 hours of red bar) 2. Timers Highsec - Mothership cannot be sighted unless the bar has been 75 % blue for last 24 hours. Lowsec- Mothership cannot be sighted unless the bar has been 75 % blue for last 12 hours. Nullsec- Mothership cannot be sighted unless the bar has been 75 % blue for last 6 hours. Only one mothership can be sighted at once (so if lowsec mom is spotted, well, either go kill it, or wait for incursion to withdrawn before you are able to sight one in other incursions). 3. Target breakers Introduce new true random spaws in all incursions, can be drones / frigates / cruisers / static towers / structures that spawn on irregular basis in irregular numbers, have low EHP and break locks (not jam, just breaking lock) to higher number of ships (lets say 30-60% of fleet every 10-30 seconds). Results from changes (boring wall of text intended for DEVS and those who want to know more if they even care) Red bar makes ISK farming at least a bit slower due to lower DPS that ships output. New timers would ensure sites to stay up longer and only one mothership being spotted would make interesting game changes, lets say one group spots MOM but the other one is running in other highsec incursion, you have a choice of hoping they will kill theirs in time for you to spot yours, or you can move to theirs and kill off mom and then you need to move back along with them and you'll end up contesting each other for 24 hours at least till new mom is spotted. If you are hoping to contest then you lose time moving there and back. The other community might want to keep the mom alive as long as possible to make the first community move, etc. Opens whole lot of options if you think about it. And yea, target breakers? Why not, make some new mechanic where ships randomly lose locks and have to re lock. If it happens in wrong time to most logies, one ship goes boom. Slows down the progress of site. Cripples the boxers as well. We all know there is one community who can do moms with just 4-5 guys online. If you lose random locks on random toons, you are going to have more issues boxing more then 1-2 characters. Im here thinking of something in the range of: Vanguard: 5% chance per site to get 1-2 target breakers spawns which randomly break targets of 4-5 ships every 15 seconds. Assaults: 10% chance for something to spawn. Who even does these? HQ: 15% chance per site to get 3-5 target breakers spawn which randomly break targets of up to 10-12 ships every 15 seconds. Each spawn consist of 1-3 entities and they are timed apart for 1-3 minutes. This would add that uncertainty again where you need to pay attention to clear them out as soon as possible. Some might argue niarjas now work the same, but we all know in contest you ignore them mostly, especially if they are jamming the other fleet or your logies. My 2 cents of the top of my head. Regards, Sentenced 1989, Founder of The Incursion Guild TIG Incursions

Corben Arctus Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 14	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:59:00 - [41] - Quote marVLs wrote: I just want more incursion version, like Angel, Guristas and some for gallente side. So instead of multi sansha incursions there will be one of every kind in the same time. This would be pretty cool; might even cause me to return to incursions once in a while.
padraig animal Incubus Innovations 1	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:04:00 - [42] - Quote +1 ......
Makkuro Tatsu EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:06:00 - [43] - Quote Kranyoldlady wrote: - Make incursions more pvp like. With this i mean, back in the day of btl and tdf, we ran with ships that were more pvp geared then today. Make it so that if an Incursion spawns we can safely kill pvp lowsec like, without concord interferring. I disagree. Incursions in low- and nullsec space are freely available if you fancy PvP. As for Empire Space, remember we are supposed to be jointly fighting the bad guys, not blowing each other out of the water to control who is receiving the CONCORD rewards. Contests are quite sufficient for that. I believe that incursions are suffering mostly from the early mothership kills which are caused by a "if I can't have the toy I am going to break the toy" mentality. There are already a couple of suggestions in this thread how to address this problem, although personally I am not sure which one (or which combination) would be most effective.
Blizzaro Enter The Abyss. Verge of Carebearing 3	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:14:00 - [44] - Quote Oh look there's no incursion around I gots time to write a post about how broken they are. The content could do with a refresh maybe It would be nice to see fleet damage done displayed upon site completion. But then missions need a refresh, stuff gets old and needs refreshing whats new? When an incursion pops up in your home system it affects miners and mission runners in the area. The people killing the incursion are doing these people a favor. Why should these people suffer? Shouldn't we be killing the Kundalini as soon as it spawns? If you really want to stop people its not like you couldn't just get a fleet of gank ships? The only reason to keep it open is easy isk farming for incursion runners what about easy mining for miners? World bosses in other MMO's used to cause a little drama/content. Why can't the same apply to EvE. This lack of incursions has driven players to things like Low sec incursions and group PvP they otherwise would never have experienced and given NPC fighting FC's the chance to FC PvP fleets can you argue this is a bad thing? Incursions like any other resource are to be fought over or agreements made is that so hard to accept in a game like eve?
Cenirse Empire Controll 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:35:00 - [45] - Quote +1
Rivari Kyoshun Fist of Hungarians 1	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:43:00 - [46] - Quote +1 Blizzaro wrote: (...) When an incursion pops up in your home system it affects miners and mission runners in the area. The people killing the incursion are doing these people a favor. Why should these people suffer? Shouldn't we be killing the Kundalini as soon as it spawns? (...) World bosses in other MMO's used to cause a little drama/content. Why can't the same apply to EvE. (...) Incursions like any other resource are to be fought over or agreements made is that so hard to accept in a game like eve? a) It should be, since the occupying race is being abducted - lore wise. However, people should get a chance at fighting the enemy. b) We are not in Azeroth anymore - that is what I always get from those friends, who were playing EVE when I was a little b*tch. c) In High-sec it is a lot more different - comes to life as contests. And contests are won by those who deal truckloads of damages more than the fleet you are in. You take out X% of the site in 5 minutes, they take out 1.2X in 2 minutes and they win by being a bigger threat. I don't see that fair. May I be wrong.
Wimzy Chent-Shi Eliptoids and stuff 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:48:00 - [47] - Quote Add incursions from different Pirate factions "new content" and reduce the respawn timers a bit or simply add more sites in the current incursions to support more fleets, let the PvE pirate factions strike back in their own fasion in the terriroty of their own respective enemies, I suppose they don't need to take slaves. but it is a business after all.
Blizzaro Enter The Abyss. Verge of Carebearing 3	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:51:00 - [48] - Quote Rivari Kyoshun wrote: c) In High-sec it is a lot more different - comes to life as contests. And contests are won by those who deal truckloads of damages more than the fleet you are in. You take out X% of the site in 5 minutes, they take out 1.2X in 2 minutes and they win by being a bigger threat. I don't see that fair. May I be wrong. So when there are more fleets than sites when all sites are taken the fleets are supposed to sing kumbaya in a conga line around the sun? Its easy to not find it fair when you're on the loosing side. Eve is about fighting for resources. Contesting is fine. Just out of interest do you get a badge on ts for +1 this post as a WTM member?
Dukun Andy Tan's Corporation 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:52:00 - [49] - Quote I disagree. I've been running incursions for about 5 months now. I see you're flustrated because MOM's have been dying a lot lately, which is true. But that doesn't mean that mechanics are bad, it means that people are bad, unable to cooperate. Blame ISN, or blame DIN? Or blame TVP....politics, heh. I personally find this aspect very amusing. Someone pops the MOM and the amount of rage that comes with it is just priceless. TVP herd invades DIN chat and rapes it to death. Aaaaargh you popped the mom where is my isk? :( A lot of incursion runners would accuse ISN for this situation. They are the shiniest community, and they just love to contest. And one unnamed incursion community usually pops ze mom after they get contested by ISN. Is that a bad thing? Or is it right since OMG contesting? Politics... I personally don't mind contests. I mean, hell we make about 100m+ isk a hour. Contests are fun, its a proper game mechanic, and it adds some thrill. Situation is bad because its like WW2 out there, the mechanics are OK imo. You said incursions are all about making isk as fast as possible and I'm very ok with that. And for the second think you've mentioned in your post - incursions are too easy. I agree vanguars are pretty easy, dunno about assaults, and HQ's? That's doubtful. See, we invest tons of isk into our fits, we don't wanna die. Actually if you get a full room aggro in a TCRC site there's a pretty big chance of death if you don't broadcast within a few seconds. It's not like no one dies during sites. I see at least a few ships getting popped every day. Most of us don't die because we are pretty good at this, and we got TOP logistics :) I also have a feeling that you're a litte bit jelly because of incursions being too much profitable. I've never seen a drake in an HQ fleet. Do you even run incursions?
Rivari Kyoshun Fist of Hungarians 1	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:54:00 - [50] - Quote Blizzaro wrote: Rivari Kyoshun wrote: c) In High-sec it is a lot more different - comes to life as contests. And contests are won by those who deal truckloads of damages more than the fleet you are in. You take out X% of the site in 5 minutes, they take out 1.2X in 2 minutes and they win by being a bigger threat. I don't see that fair. May I be wrong. So when there are more fleets than sites when all sites are taken the fleets are supposed to sing kumbaya in a conga line around the sun? Its easy to not find it fair when you're on the loosing side. Eve is about fighting for resources. Contesting is fine. Just out of interest do you get a badge on ts for +1 this post as a WTM member? I have revoked that part of my comment as I find it an off-topic. It is a whole lot different. Do you really have to be so cocky, sir?

Commander Venture Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani 7	Posted - 2013.10.27 10:58:00 - [51] - Quote Incentive-based mechanics could be implemented not only to address some of the original poster's concerns but also change the flavor of incursions. Broad strokes here, I'm sure folks will air the pros and cons of each: 1. When the Sansha influence goes down, so should site payout. This is simply risk versus reward. As the influence decreases from 100% to 0%, payout should drop not necessarily to zero, but to some minimum that makes sense given that Sansha penalties are also at a minimum. 2. As an individual pilot grinds an incursion, his ISK and/or LP payout per site should decrease. Passing some loyalty point or site count threshold should make completing further sites less rewarding; this could be implemented as a steady decline or a step function, maybe even similar to the way that grinding agent missions means less and less for NPC standings. If ever there were a finer example of beating a dead horse, it's the pilots earning a million plus loyalty points when the Kundalini Manifest goes down. 3. When a fleet completes a site, ship losses should be taken into account when calculating rewards. If one or more ships are lost in a site, then the whole fleet should share in that failure through decreased payout. 4. When a fleet completes a site, ship losses should be taken into account when calculating the effect on Sansha influence. If this is already a feature in-game, then the effect is not strong enough. When ships are lost, then the incursion community as a whole should feel it, and Sansha influence should be less apt to shrink. In fact, with player ship losses so rare, maybe the enemy's stature should not decrease but increase, and maybe by a great deal. 5. If a pilot loses a ship fighting Sansha, then public loss details should be generated, including the victim's fleet commander or declared community. Think of the Sansha leader as another player looking to kill you; maybe it's time he took credit for his work on his own kill board for each incursion spawned. If incursions serve as an introduction to meaningful fleet gameplay and PVP, then such a public feature would serve that end. Some of the points mentioned above may be considered over the top by many, I'm sure. My biggest aim in listing them is to reduce a pilot's incentive for heavy farming, making the activity more about fleet participation and less about building oversized wallets. The incursion-related fleet activity that we have now is great player-generated content - successes, failures, drama and all. With diminishing returns already a common feature elsewhere in EVE mechanics, it should not be unexpected for incursions. The rewards for flying incursions are a means to a social end, not an end in and of themselves. Let's not feel entitled to them.
Joan Greywind No Swag Initiative 175	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:09:00 - [52] - Quote +1, well said. The thing that irks me is not that one group is stopping all the other groups from having content, is it actually the weaker and boxing communities that are doing so. The losing side shouldn't be able to dictate terms, even in a sandbox.
Vidurr Grabak The dwarves in the mountains 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:21:00 - [53] - Quote +1
Sicariidae Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 2	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:22:00 - [54] - Quote Changing how incursions work will never modify the behavior of players. So what if some group of players goes in and kills the mom right away? It's completely within game mechanics to go and do so and it surely isn't breaking any rule imposed by CCP because CCP hasn't imposed any rules. The core issue here is the attitude of entitlement players have and that's why all the tears and drama when the mom gets popped. Oh the isk train has derailed and some one didn't follow the rules. Who's rules? The whole issue here is about the ISK and if CCP removed all monetary benefit of doing incursions not a soul would do them ever.
Blizzaro Enter The Abyss. Verge of Carebearing 3	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:26:00 - [55] - Quote Sicariidae wrote: The whole issue here is about the ISK and if CCP removed all monetary benefit of doing incursions not a soul would do them ever. Null block would.
Miss Monty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:27:00 - [56] - Quote To the OP Eve is a sandbox, Eve is about combat, it's survival of the fittest and incursions are what players have made them into. This shouldn't be a great surprise, as the eve community is infamous for exactly that. As you are a member of the incursion community WTM, your post makes sense. Sure some of the mechanics could do with updating and I am sure that CCP will get to that, in the mean time, thanks for another incursion thread and regurgitating more often discussed ideas for your members to +1. Incursion running has strayed from it's roots into an isk printing activity which is hard to rival for those who prefer high sec dwelling and little risk v reward. For that reason, it's communities are swelling all the time. The mothership can be popped at any time to end an incursion, and it's not surprising to see how many players and communities wail and moan and need the game 'fixed' when they either are 'contested' and lose, which is the only 'pvp' type element in their grind for isk, or have to move their isk printing factory early . In the worst case, have to enjoy some of Eve's other fine pastimes until their isk grind can start all over again. Now I hear people say that it's about Eve players being able to participate in their chosen activity, however when the miners are killed or the industrialists ganked, or sov is lost or any of the other accepted outcomes of Eve gameplay, people are not free to carry on their chosen activities without readjusting. Why shouldn't incursion runners be subjected to the same? Why should game mechanics be adjusted or blamed for player based actions? Incursions haven't become easier, players have gotten better at the high level pve content. Again, why change incursions over that? It would be like changing pvp mechanics because some alliances are a lot better at pvp than others. The size of communities and fleets have a direct impact on the outcome for them in PVP, Mining and isk making activities so why should smaller incursion groups have mechanic changes allowing them any benefits and influence over those who spend more time and effort collaborating a larger group of people? It is like suggesting that you nerf pvp fleets to allow that poor solo player a better chance or changing the way industry works for those smaller corps and groups of people. Ridiculous. I like some of the suggestions from Commander Venture. Players are crying because the sandpile gets kicked over, and they are too used to the huge amount of reward versus very little risk. Make the rewards smaller in high sec and make low and null sec more worthwhile. Bring on the tears and the contesting which is right up there with other enjoyable activities like reading Jita trade chat other fine pursuits. PS. Who wrote / spell checked that for you?
Commander Venture Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani 7	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:49:00 - [57] - Quote Miss Monty wrote: I like some of the suggestions from Commander Venture. Players are crying because the sandpile gets kicked over, and they are too used to the huge amount of reward versus very little risk. Make the rewards smaller in high sec and make low and null sec more worthwhile. Bring on the tears and the contesting which is right up there with other enjoyable activities like reading Jita trade chat other fine pursuits. PS. Who wrote / spell checked that for you? It was Microsoft Notepad. I was hauling in my freighter, so had plenty of time to read and re-read, but thought I should cut it short before server downtime.
Miss Monty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:54:00 - [58] - Quote Lol, I meant the OP not your fine self. He is rather known for his incomprehensible text.
Iqqesh Noban The dwarves in the mountains 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 12:02:00 - [59] - Quote I totally agree with Gant. Incursions need changes, or there will be no more fun and worth to run incursions due to behavior of some Incursions HQ communities.
Miss Monty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.10.27 12:10:00 - [60] - Quote Imho, the OP and his friends seek to wrap their way of life in cotton wool to improve their status quo. However, this is Eve and exactly the opposite would accomplish more. Instead of cotton wool wraps, poke them with pins and sticks and rolling pins until only the most hardy, determined remain to reap rewards. This would serve incursions in many ways, from thinning out the incursion communities, adding more risk and making the activity more 'high end'. It is also much more in keeping with the game itself. All the +1s should be mocked as much as the newile miner or pvp'er complaining on the forums that they couldn't grind isk the way that they wanted to in a sandbox of Eve without any other players interventions. I am not surprised that most of them come from other members of the OPs community. It is interesting that the OP talks about making incursions harder and more high end when he himself is a part of a community which encourages new players with subpar ships and skills to join them and run incursions. He should take a chew on his own words. Just an Idea. If WTM disbanded, the incursion community as a whole would improve their player pool quality drastically and leave more sites available for those the OP feels should be enabled to fly 'high end' pve. There are few to no other communities who would run the kind of slow, dangerous rag tail fleets full of players who are underskilled and couldn't even solo level 3 mission that WTM hosts.



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