And that's the problem. CCP is between a rock and a hard place. The existing option isn't much fun, but the alternatives are much worse.

This. Hard to comprehend why people don't get this.

Drop a TCU, and then leave? K, it's totally undefended and will get destroyed very quickly. Oh, they came back to defend it? Then what are you whining about?

Reinforcement timers exist because this is a game, so there needs to be a balancing aspect. It would be very fun to work hard to hold a system only to lose it because you play with your friends who all live in the same time zone. You shouldn't be forced to recruit equal numbers of people from every part of the planet just to hold a system.

And I'd like to remind people that this system is quite a lot better than the old pos-spam. The foundation is fine, there's no reason to scrap the entire mechanic again. If you want to suggest new sov structures to add, that's one thing, but until people start actually making suggestions for improvement rather than whining about killing buildings and invulnerability timers, nothing is going to change.

In quite a few systems, it wouldn't really matter to anyone if the Goons dropped sov on them tomorrow. The fact that the flag still flies is largely due to the desire to flip everyone else the virtual bird by having that much sov.

Yeah, it's mostly psychological, though holding sov for strategic station control is the most common practical reason to hold space you don't use, which is solved by decoupling station control from sovereignty.

I must say, I think the siphons could have been done differently. As they stand, they seem like they are good for little more than griefing.

They should. However, I'm all for siphons being released as currently envisioned, so people can get an unmitigated view of structure spam and grind ping-pong at its absolute worst, and why it is an absolutely terrible idea.

I know I do. I want there to be more of everything good, like strategic defenses and well planned offensives, and less of all things bad like blobs and structure grinding.

Can we expect anything more from that poster lol? Local alerts his tragets = local shoudl be removed, can't find cloakers in a system to kill them = claoking needs to go away. Can't kill a poco = Reinforcement mechanics need to go away. Didn't bring logictics support alt to null sec so had to do a 70 jump round trip = " SOV space should give me a place to dock and refit" etc etc.

He just doesn't think like us man, he has no sense of fairness beyond his on personal needs, it's useless arguing with people like this.

its all about timers, and who can alarm clock the best, or who has the biggest blobitron

No in reality out would just mean MORE shooting structures.

No one likes shooting structures.

More structures can be good, yes, as it gives more opportunities for fights. Where it breaks down though, in my opinion, is the start-stop nature of timers. You start an attack on Day X but cannot continue that attack in that system until Day X+4 because of timers. Oh, the argument that timers gives the defenders a known time to form up is valid but doesn't really provide for any uncertainty.

So instead of timers which tell you when you can and cannot do something you make the attack an ongoing (and interruptible) process. Against my better judgment I'll post a concept though though I warn you this will be quite wordy (though

"Sovereignty" is a Concord sanctioned ownership. The TCU transmits via the stargate network ownership and system status to Concord.

When you attack sovereignty it happens not in any random system but starts at constellation gates. Attackers place a SBU (updated ones with a bit more HP) on each constellation gate in the target constellation. Like this constellation in Querious SBUs would need to be placed in P-ZMZ, UYU-VV, and 2 in VK-L690. SBUs 'block' the sovereignty control signal going to Concord which turns off the invulnerability status of all HUBs in the constellation...but they do not do it immediately nor continuously.

The SBUs (now massive objects requiring at least a Rorqual to deploy) immediately anchor. They require fuel to operate same as a POS but consume significantly more fuel to operate, so much so that either streams of Blockade Runners would be needed or regular visits by Orcas/Rorquals. Once fueled they begin to online (2 hours) and then the attackers 'link' the SBUs together via an item menu. Once linked they begin to actively jam the Concord signal and the invulnerability status is removed. HUBs can now be attacked and HUB/Stations follow their current process.

The SBUs are never invulnerable to attack. Not only are they open to direct attack, they can be hacked and they can be jammed by ECM. Hacking the SBU breaks the link to the other SBUs providing a temporary return of invulnerable status of all currently vulnerable structures in the constellation though no damage incurred will be repaired. Jamming is the 'quick fix' who's effect lasts just a number of minutes and is automatically 'repaired'. A successful hacking of the SBUS requires a 'counter-hack' which will allow the SBU owners to re-establish the link. The effect is a much longer duration for the temporary return of the invulnerable status. Hacking and Jamming attempts would need to be done by specialized ships & setups. Only when the last SBU is destroyed or offlined due to no fuel will the constellation be considered 'saved' and all progress of the attackers is reset.

The point of all this is to make attack and defense a continuously ongoing process and across multiple prime times and multiple locations depending upon the constellation.

SOV is the level 90 grind. Only for the hardcore people who have lots of free time.

Instead I think the concept should be scrapped and bring the fight to the Moons and Planets. Make the factories and refineries the target and make them destroyable in one go.

The barrier to playing the REAL null sec game is a massive time sink. Remove that and you will find the fight for 0.0 becomes a crazier fun time.

Oh and get rid of the permanent JBs. Instead make it deployable like a Bubble. Temporary and portable.

need more like fw , let the small guys have some impact too

"sense" of belonging, first of all.

Secondly, I have never really understood why one of the foremost avenues of attack for the highsec miner is to call it "not real pvp". That has always confused me. I mean, by definition any activity you take against another player is pvp.

Huh. Kinda odd that they play EVE then. I mean, that basically encompasses the entire game.

For once, it was my sarcasm that went over your head. Or am I just being trolled again? I can never tell with you.

.......
Not sure if troll. Or dident read the thread.

Yep. No one who has ever lived in nullsec for a decent period of time would say that. I haven't lived in null since the Great War, and the very thought of that "suggestion" still makes me shudder.

So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire. Same result. In the old days BoB kicked everyone's teeth in, across multiple regions, just fine without massive cap fleets.

What you're not getting is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem.

Yeah so then after the 1000 man gang goes 40 jumps on foot what stops them from just steamrolling all of you **** for making them jump that far.

Or just staying, they have the manpower, I've fought wars on opposite sides of the map at once via jump clones and pod express.

Well if there is an entity that can motivate 1000 people to constantly jump clone and jump 40 jumps in their BS fleet then they will have an advantage for sure, but I don't know such entity yet.

Your ideas are bad because they are trying to reduce the number of people in 0.0 by making things more painful so you with your supposedly higher tolerance for tedium can step in and take their place which is basically a variation on "I deserve this space so much more than the people who currently have it because...". What you should be doing is thinking of ways to increase the carrying capacity of space so there is less reason for it's current owners to hold it all.

More carrot, less stick.

Playing Eve on easy mode? Check my employment history.

I was there right at the start of Goonfleet when we were newbies in frigates. I was there when we fought for even the tiniest amount of NPC nullsec space and I was intimately involved in our (failed) first attempts to take conquerable space. I am very aware of how many thousands of people have put in millions of cumulative hours for GoonSwarm to be where it is now and you think I'm the one demanding easy mode?

If you want to fight, but you don't want to shoot dominion structures, you can rent on a border.

Given most rentals are in fact on borders, that is not a problem at all. Even a dedicated bear like me reships and drops combat ships on neuts, and there are 3 pipes in Vale I could patrol if i was trying to make 1v1s or 2v2s vs 'matar hull skirmishers and other fast ships - it would probably take me 30 minutes on average in my lowpop TZ to get a fight without actually leaving Vale if I was actively seeking it.

Yes the entire time I'd play after work would be anchoring structures to spam safety hitpoints to last overnight, and any day I didn't get my **** shot down, I'd be doubling up the **** to make it twice as hard for the attackers tomorrow. Be just like "great war" pos spam all over again.

its been done, it sucked.

We grind Delve in two weeks with bombers......you keep crying about force projection, but I only saw a titan twice in that period.

Even without JBs the large coalitions will **** in your wheaties

Aye, but I don't want to have to replace everything every day. right now I have a small pos, it has stront in it, and a gang that is here today waiting to get a tackle off on miners next door, but not here in my TZ, can reinforce it, and then I can fix it. If they want whats in it,(a taranis and some supplies for an ishtar), they'll have to come back for it on the timer.

In an everything blows up right away world, I just can't have a pos, or I have to have a pos for every moon, and then I'm spamming hitpoints in lieu of being logged on.

I am curious how some of you would answer this point.

If you take away reinforcement or remove timers or whatever, that will utterly de-incentivize any possibility of there ever being nullsec industry. If the cute little Rebel Alliance wannabes can just come blow up your pos without you being able in any way to do something about it(because you committed the grievous sin of sleeping instead of 24/7 watching your stuff), why would you bother?

Ergo, would this not completely devastate the T2 and T3 manufacturing industries, as well?

In fact, nevermind the industries, most of the "suggestions" would ruin the lives of anyone who lives in a wormhole.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the "solo player experience" and the "little guy" aren't worth that level of fuckery.

You just told me I did, right after I told you that your suggestions would lead to the flaming death of T2 and T3 industry. I'll bold, italic, and underline it so you won't miss it.



Liar.

As for the other two, yes, you have advocated for removal of API key notifications for timers. Probably in this very thread. You have also advocated for a complete rework of the sov system to deliberately benefit you.

Your self serving motivations are clear for all to see who have eyes. As is your general awfulness. This makes twice now I have had to go 4th grade style to your suggestions. The first was when you tried to propose that timers be doubled to 48 hours instead of 24, which has to be up there in the 10 stupidest things I have ever seen proposed on Assembly Hall.

Per usual you completely missed the point.

That about sums up what I said a few pages ago.

Sov is a complicated issue, damned if they do, damned if they don't. And right now, it's too hard of an issue to justify putting that much effort into it, when it's rather likely they'll be damned anyway.

Damned if I know a fix.

It all boils down to quantity has its own quality.