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Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's long past due for bombers, and the bomb launchers to be revisited. Besides reducing the PG cost of T2 torp launchers, the bomb launchers need to have the ability to fire multiple bombs in rapid secession. Bomb damage needs to be increased, and/or the sig radius penalty needs to be removed. The ability to carry a max of 3 bombs is completely useless due to the reactivation delay.
That is all.
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
776
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:the bomb launchers need to have the ability to fire multiple bombs in rapid secession
Rapid as in 1 every 2 seconds would mean that the first would explode the 2nd thus nullifying it's effect. Any other bombs within 30km of the first exploding are nullified and they cause massive damage why do you think that these have such a long firing time?
Bomb damage is, IMO, fine. It's massive and when used en-masse panic follows en-masse.
I would agree that a few more bombs (max 5?) be able to be carried but I would go so far as to say hundreds.
That is all.
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3564
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dont think you realize what you are asking for. These changes would make it possible to allow 1 bombers can perform the work of 5 or 6.
No one person (or two) should be able to nuke an entire fleet by themselves. That's why AOE Doomsdays were nerfed. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Tiye Q wrote:the bomb launchers need to have the ability to fire multiple bombs in rapid secession Rapid as in 1 every 2 seconds would mean that the first would explode the 2nd thus nullifying it's effect. Any other bombs within 30km of the first exploding are nullified and they cause massive damage why do you think that these have such a long firing time? Bomb damage is, IMO, fine. It's massive and when used en-masse panic follows en-masse. I would agree that a few more bombs (max 5?) be able to be carried but I would go so far as to say hundreds. That is all.
Each bomb type has an immunity to the type of damage that it deals. The bombs would not explode and nullify their damage via exploding each other. Usually in coordinated fleet efforts the bombs are launched 1-2 seconds apart, simply due to the timing of everyone launching the bomb. When the first player launches his/her bomb, the 4th player who launched their bomb (as long as it's the same damage type) will still due damage to the target (if it's still alive). |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:I dont think you realize what you are asking for. These changes would make it possible to allow 1 bombers can perform the work of 5 or 6.
No one person (or two) should be able to nuke an entire fleet by themselves. That's why AOE Doomsdays were nerfed.
I do realize what I'm asking for. One bomber should be able to launch multiple bombs. It's not important if one player will be able to do the task of what 5-6 can do (and that would only work if the launcher could hold 5-6 bombs). With my proposed changes, nuking a fleet (solo) will be dependent on the size and composition of the fleet.
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Batelle
RisingSuns
254
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm sorry you don't have friends to bomb fleets with. Fighting is Magic |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I'm sorry you don't have friends to bomb fleets with.
That's not relevant.
The bomb launcher module needs to be revisited. There's no reason at this stage in the game, that the bomb launcher needs to be limited in rate of fire and activation delay.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2753
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:I dont think you realize what you are asking for. These changes would make it possible to allow 1 bombers can perform the work of 5 or 6.
No one person (or two) should be able to nuke an entire fleet by themselves. That's why AOE Doomsdays were nerfed. I do realize what I'm asking for. One bomber should be able to launch multiple bombs. It's not important if one player will be able to do the task of what 5-6 can do (and that would only work if the launcher could hold 5-6 bombs). With my proposed changes, nuking a fleet (solo) will be dependent on the size and composition of the fleet.
You truly understand what you are asking for?
Then please take this in the most polite fashion: You have absolutely no concept of game balance, nor why it is important for the game. Both of your suggestions (multiple bomb launches) & (no damage reduction from low sig) break gameplay.
Do us a favor and stop posting ideas because "it would be awesome if".... |
Batelle
RisingSuns
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Batelle wrote:I'm sorry you don't have friends to bomb fleets with. That's not relevant. The bomb launcher module needs to be revisited. There's no reason at this stage in the game, that the bomb launcher needs to be limited in rate of fire and activation delay.
Sure there is. It would be OP as hell. One bomber should not be able to put out 30k damage in under a minute, especially not AOE damage.
Same for the sig damage reduction, its an important way to keep bombers balanced against smaller ships. Fighting is Magic |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
You truly understand what you are asking for?
Then please take this in the most polite fashion: You have absolutely no concept of game balance, nor why it is important for the game. Both of your suggestions (multiple bomb launches) & (no damage reduction from low sig) break gameplay.
Do us a favor and stop posting ideas because "it would be awesome if"....
No concept of game balance? For starters this game is not balanced. Your opinion that my suggestion is game breaking...is just that. Your opinion. There is nothing in the history of this game regarding bomb launchers that backs your opinion
My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs.
I am not suggesting that a bomb launcher have the ability to launch 5 bombs rapidly. Three is a good number, and adjusting the damage that the bombs do (removing sig radius penalty or increasing the bomb damage) is not unreasonable.
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Batelle
RisingSuns
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:
My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs.
We need more people sitting around in bombers taking potshots? You think that's the solo activity this game is missing?
Here's a counter proposal. How about two bombs? If, after you launch the first, you have the opportunity to stay uncloaked and fire a second bomb 4 seconds later. Big risk in doing so, with the payoff of more damage. No changes to the sig radius reduction. Fighting is Magic |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Batelle wrote: Sure there is. It would be OP as hell. One bomber should not be able to put out 30k damage in under a minute, especially not AOE damage. Same for the sig damage reduction, its an important way to keep bombers balanced against smaller ships.
Who said anything about 30k damage? Three bombs would be around 24K damage, depending on resists. Bombers are effectively useless against smaller and larger ships alike; unless they are used in coordinated efforts, and these proposed changes would multiply the effectiveness of those coordinated efforts.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2754
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
You truly understand what you are asking for?
Then please take this in the most polite fashion: You have absolutely no concept of game balance, nor why it is important for the game. Both of your suggestions (multiple bomb launches) & (no damage reduction from low sig) break gameplay.
Do us a favor and stop posting ideas because "it would be awesome if"....
No concept of game balance? For starters this game is not balanced. Your opinion that my suggestion is game breaking...is just that. Your opinion. There is nothing in the history of this game regarding bomb launchers that backs your opinion My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs. I am not suggesting that a bomb launcher have the ability to launch 5 bombs rapidly. Three is a good number, and adjusting the damage that the bombs do (removing sig radius penalty or increasing the bomb damage) is not unreasonable.
As I said... you have no concept of game balance!
a.) "There is nothing in the history of this game regarding bomb launchers that backs you opinion": There is a long history of AOE weapons in EvE. From mines to AOE DD's to Smartbombs to bombers. All of which have been utilized to wipe out entire fleets of ships. AOE weapons have been readily shown to be extremely powerful, and brought in check quite often when they are over-utilized. Bombers are already heavily utilized to take out large groups of people, but to do so it a challenge because coordinating bomb launches is difficult. Smart bombs are already utilized to take out large fleets, but to do so is a challenge because getting an enemy fleet within smartbomb range of your durka trap is a challenge, and difficult. Your suggestion is aimed at making them easier to use. (1 bomber now can do the job of 3 bombers).
b.) "My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs." Cloaky, stabbed bombers that solo frigates, dessies, and weak cruisers by decloaking, dropping a bomb or three, and warping off to safety is NOT what this game needs. PvP should involve at least effort, and legitimate risks to boot!
c.) "adjusting the damage that the bombs do (removing sig radius penalty or increasing the bomb damage) is not unreasonable." Yes it is... My bomber does 8k damage... how many frigs or dessies in game have 8k EHP? Very few.... At the moment, you need them to be MWD'ing to kill them with one bomb (usually), which makes it a challenge.
Sorry that bombing isn't easy kill mode for you... but anything worth doing should require some effort.
Your thread ideas are TERRIBLE, and I suspect your either incompetent at bombing at best, and most likely a troll to boot.
/thread
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Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Tiye Q wrote:
My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs.
We need more people sitting around in bombers taking potshots? You think that's the solo activity this game is missing? Here's a counter proposal. How about two bombs? If, after you launch the first, you have the opportunity to stay uncloaked and fire a second bomb 4 seconds later. Big risk in doing so, with the payoff of more damage. No changes to the sig radius reduction.
People take potshots in their sebo'd 11K+ alpha Tornadoes all day long.
Yes, we need more people in bombers taking potshots. This will encourage more pvp, more ships exploding, more organic combat, instead of meet by the flagpole after school at 3pm.
I don't agree with your counter proposal. 4 seconds is too long of a rate of fire. Also most bombers today use the align/decloak/launch/warp to safe method, which makes them nearly impossible to catch. A rapid launch bomb launcher would nullify that method since the bomber would likely end up bombing himself in the bombing run. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6687
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Terrible horrible OP idea.
Increasing bomb RoF AND increasing bomb damage..... just...wow.
I love flying bombers, but this is bad, just...awful.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: As I said... you have no concept of game balance!
a.) "There is nothing in the history of this game regarding bomb launchers that backs you opinion": There is a long history of AOE weapons in EvE. From mines to AOE DD's to Smartbombs to bombers. All of which have been utilized to wipe out entire fleets of ships. AOE weapons have been readily shown to be extremely powerful, and brought in check quite often when they are over-utilized. Bombers are already heavily utilized to take out large groups of people, but to do so it a challenge because coordinating bomb launches is difficult. Smart bombs are already utilized to take out large fleets, but to do so is a challenge because getting an enemy fleet within smartbomb range of your durka trap is a challenge, and difficult. Your suggestion is aimed at making them easier to use. (1 bomber now can do the job of 3 bombers).
b.) "My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs." Cloaky, stabbed bombers that solo frigates, dessies, and weak cruisers by decloaking, dropping a bomb or three, and warping off to safety is NOT what this game needs. PvP should involve at least effort, and legitimate risks to boot!
c.) "adjusting the damage that the bombs do (removing sig radius penalty or increasing the bomb damage) is not unreasonable." Yes it is... My bomber does 8k damage... how many frigs or dessies in game have 8k EHP? Very few.... At the moment, you need them to be MWD'ing to kill them with one bomb (usually), which makes it a challenge.
Sorry that bombing isn't easy kill mode for you... but anything worth doing should require some effort.
Your thread ideas are TERRIBLE, and I suspect your either incompetent at bombing at best, and most likely a troll to boot.
/thread
This is far from a troll. You have the option to not read the forum post or further post if you don't agree with my idea.
Unfortunately for you I stated 'history of the game regarding bomb launchers'. You're counter referenced AOE weapons fit to Titans, and Battleships.
If a bomber solos a frigate, dessie or weak cruiser by decloaking and dropping a bomb or three, and warping off, then so be it. It would be evolutionary combat.
There are plenty of ships that can instalock and instapop the smaller ships in the game.
This proposed change can give the smaller entities a fighting chance against something larger.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6690
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote: If a bomber solos a frigate, dessie or weak cruiser by decloaking and dropping a bomb or three, and warping off, then so be it. It would be evolutionary combat.
Are you trying to say that a solo bomber cannot do this now? I would seriously beg to differ. I have stalked gatecamps and waited patiently and when the time was right, cornholed a dictor and inty at the same time...on several occasions. Hell, Ive even wiped out t3 bcs with a single bomb.
Bomb damage is dependant on sig radius. Waiting for a target to use a MWD before bombing will seriously increase your chance to one shot your opponent. Learning to bomb, torp and TP at the same time....even more so.
Bombers are meant to be pack animals, not solo creatures. One bomber should not be able to do the damage of 3+ just because you don't have a fleet with you. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Tiye Q wrote: If a bomber solos a frigate, dessie or weak cruiser by decloaking and dropping a bomb or three, and warping off, then so be it. It would be evolutionary combat.
Are you trying to say that a solo bomber cannot do this now? I would seriously beg to differ. I have stalked gatecamps and waited patiently and when the time was right, cornholed a dictor and inty at the same time...on several occasions. Hell, Ive even wiped out t3 bcs with a single bomb. Bomb damage is dependant on sig radius. Waiting for a target to use a MWD before bombing will seriously increase your chance to one shot your opponent. Learning to bomb, torp and TP at the same time....even more so. Bombers are meant to be pack animals, not solo creatures. One bomber should not be able to do the damage of 3+ just because you don't have a fleet with you.
I never said a bomber could not do such a thing.
|
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1863
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:
This is far from a troll. You have the option to not read the forum post or further post if you don't agree with my idea.
Unfortunately for you I stated 'history of the game regarding bomb launchers'. You're counter referenced AOE weapons fit to Titans, and Battleships.
If a bomber solos a frigate, dessie or weak cruiser by decloaking and dropping a bomb or three, and warping off, then so be it. It would be evolutionary combat.
There are plenty of ships that can instalock and instapop the smaller ships in the game.
This proposed change can give the smaller entities a fighting chance against something larger.
And since you're giving the bombs immunity to their own damage type, people will not be dropping three of them on a gatecamp.
They'll be dropping three hundred on anything that moves. Why is that good? |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
And since you're giving the bombs immunity to their own damage type, people will not be dropping three of them on a gatecamp.
They'll be dropping three hundred on anything that moves. Why is that good?
Bombs already have an 99% immunity to their own damage type.
There are already entities that can drop 300 bombs on a gate camp, not sure how anything would change with my proposed changes. |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2755
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: As I said... you have no concept of game balance!
a.) "There is nothing in the history of this game regarding bomb launchers that backs you opinion": There is a long history of AOE weapons in EvE. From mines to AOE DD's to Smartbombs to bombers. All of which have been utilized to wipe out entire fleets of ships. AOE weapons have been readily shown to be extremely powerful, and brought in check quite often when they are over-utilized. Bombers are already heavily utilized to take out large groups of people, but to do so it a challenge because coordinating bomb launches is difficult. Smart bombs are already utilized to take out large fleets, but to do so is a challenge because getting an enemy fleet within smartbomb range of your durka trap is a challenge, and difficult. Your suggestion is aimed at making them easier to use. (1 bomber now can do the job of 3 bombers).
b.) "My suggestion can and will encourage more solo activity, which this game sorely needs." Cloaky, stabbed bombers that solo frigates, dessies, and weak cruisers by decloaking, dropping a bomb or three, and warping off to safety is NOT what this game needs. PvP should involve at least effort, and legitimate risks to boot!
c.) "adjusting the damage that the bombs do (removing sig radius penalty or increasing the bomb damage) is not unreasonable." Yes it is... My bomber does 8k damage... how many frigs or dessies in game have 8k EHP? Very few.... At the moment, you need them to be MWD'ing to kill them with one bomb (usually), which makes it a challenge.
Sorry that bombing isn't easy kill mode for you... but anything worth doing should require some effort.
Your thread ideas are TERRIBLE, and I suspect your either incompetent at bombing at best, and most likely a troll to boot.
/thread
This is far from a troll. You have the option to not read the forum post or further post if you don't agree with my idea. Unfortunately for you I stated 'history of the game regarding bomb launchers'. You're counter referenced AOE weapons fit to Titans, and Battleships. If a bomber solos a frigate, dessie or weak cruiser by decloaking and dropping a bomb or three, and warping off, then so be it. It would be evolutionary combat. There are plenty of ships that can instalock and instapop the smaller ships in the game. This proposed change can give the smaller entities a fighting chance against something larger.
The references to AOE weapons is very relevant to bomb launches, which are currently the most potent AOE weapon in the game. A rose by any other name smells as sweet, and the potency of AOE weapons are still of concern. Bombers are already utilized (by competent groups) to destroy entire BS fleets, but require a lot of effort to make it happen. Your change makes this easier, and you only reasoning is, bombers need a rebalance.
Why do bombers need to be rebalanced? They work great against BC/BS targets, and are widely utilized to blap structures. They work great in bomber fleets, playing a large role in the metagame. They work alright as solo hunters killing ratters. And they enable a small group of players to engage in quality asymmetric warfare (i.e. a small group of bombers can obliterate a large fleet in seconds).
To this, you want to make all frigates & dessies not super-tanked completely susceptible to solo bombers... just cuase. To this, you want to make less bombers able to launch the bombers of 2-3x bombers...
Why again??? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1866
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And since you're giving the bombs immunity to their own damage type, people will not be dropping three of them on a gatecamp.
They'll be dropping three hundred on anything that moves. Why is that good?
Bombs already have an 99% immunity to their own damage type. There are already entities that can drop 300 bombs on a gate camp, not sure how anything would change with my proposed changes.
More than eight bombs going off at once blow eachother up. Please learn how bombs work before you propose sweeping changes to them. |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And since you're giving the bombs immunity to their own damage type, people will not be dropping three of them on a gatecamp.
They'll be dropping three hundred on anything that moves. Why is that good?
Bombs already have an 99% immunity to their own damage type. There are already entities that can drop 300 bombs on a gate camp, not sure how anything would change with my proposed changes. More than eight bombs going off at once blow eachother up. Please learn how bombs work before you propose sweeping changes to them.
I'm pretty sure you made the original reference of 300 bombs.
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Batelle wrote:I'm sorry you don't have friends to bomb fleets with. That's not relevant. The bomb launcher module needs to be revisited. There's no reason at this stage in the game, that the bomb launcher needs to be limited in rate of fire and activation delay.
sounds pretty relevant to me. Try being more social and less of a passive aggressive demagogue Click here for LP store weapon cost rebalancing |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1866
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And since you're giving the bombs immunity to their own damage type, people will not be dropping three of them on a gatecamp.
They'll be dropping three hundred on anything that moves. Why is that good?
Bombs already have an 99% immunity to their own damage type. There are already entities that can drop 300 bombs on a gate camp, not sure how anything would change with my proposed changes. More than eight bombs going off at once blow eachother up. Please learn how bombs work before you propose sweeping changes to them. I'm pretty sure you made the original reference of 300 bombs.
Yes, and you are the one who said they'd become immune to their own damage types. Please try to keep up. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Please keep posting OP. This thread is the most hilarious thing I have seen all day. |
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The references to AOE weapons is very relevant to bomb launches, which are currently the most potent AOE weapon in the game. A rose by any other name smells as sweet, and the potency of AOE weapons are still of concern. Bombers are already utilized (by competent groups) to destroy entire BS fleets, but require a lot of effort to make it happen. Your change makes this easier, and you only reasoning is, bombers need a rebalance.
Why do bombers need to be rebalanced? They work great against BC/BS targets, and are widely utilized to blap structures. They work great in bomber fleets, playing a large role in the metagame. They work alright as solo hunters killing ratters. And they enable a small group of players to engage in quality asymmetric warfare (i.e. a small group of bombers can obliterate a large fleet in seconds).
To this, you want to make all frigates & dessies not super-tanked completely susceptible to solo bombers... just cuase. To this, you want to make less bombers able to launch the bombers of 2-3x bombers...
Why again???
Bombers needing a rebalance is not my only reasoning for this change. Encouraging solo tactics, reduction of blob warfare, more asymmetric warfare are just a few of the reasons. The bombers are already paper thin, and I'm not proposing an EHP increase of any sort. The ships already have PG issues trying to fit T2 torps launchers, which also needs to be fixed.
The implementation of a signature radius/explosion radius factor, especially for an AOE weapon is silly. In the real world (yes I understand this is a game) when a bomb is detonated on a target, the speed and size of the target have no effect on the damage. Only the targets ability to sustain damage or the yield of the weapon play a roll. In EVE we have a complicated formula that effectively makes bombing frigs and destroyers useless unless they are under MWD.
Bombers are only effective in null and w-space as it is. There is no use for bombers in low or hi-sec...where they are completely susceptible to frigates, and destroyers.
If a frigate or destroyer is susceptible to a bomber while not under MWD, that is a possibility, but not a bad thing.
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Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And since you're giving the bombs immunity to their own damage type, people will not be dropping three of them on a gatecamp.
They'll be dropping three hundred on anything that moves. Why is that good?
Bombs already have an 99% immunity to their own damage type. There are already entities that can drop 300 bombs on a gate camp, not sure how anything would change with my proposed changes. More than eight bombs going off at once blow eachother up. Please learn how bombs work before you propose sweeping changes to them. I'm pretty sure you made the original reference of 300 bombs. Yes, and you are the one who said they'd become immune to their own damage types. Please try to keep up.
Every bomb has an already built in 99.5% resistance to it's own damage type. Next time you're in-game please review the bomb stats to help educate yourself. |
Luc Chastot
560
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Some people are too stupid to understand reason. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2755
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 23:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote: Bombers needing a rebalance is not my only reasoning for this change. Encouraging solo tactics, reduction of blob warfare, more asymmetric warfare are just a few of the reasons.
You do realize the bomber already fulfills these roles? They don't need a boon to bomb mechanics to accomplish this. Your suggestions just make it "easier", but that isn't an improvement.
One of the biggest dilemma's in "fixing blob warfare" is that generally speaking, any advantage you give to an individual ship will also be enjoyed by 50 of those ships. Making bombs more destructive and easier to spam means 50 bombers can suddenly become insanely powerful.
Using current numbers, 8 bombers can drop a waves of bombs delivering 60-64k damage. Properly positioned, 4 bomber groups can simultaneously deliver all 4 waves to a target, but it requires a lot of work. Most organized groups can manage 2 simultaneous waves, which is still 120k damage (enough to instapop BS groups). Do we really NEED bombers to be more potant than this, because I really don't think we do.
Tiye Q wrote: The bombers are already paper thin, and I'm not proposing an EHP increase of any sort. The ships already have PG issues trying to fit T2 torps launchers, which also needs to be fixed.
I'd support an EHP increase, or a PG increase long before I'd support making their bomb damage more potent. Fitting torps and/or tank means your sticking around on grid and shooting stuff, which means you are at risk of dying while engaging.
Tiye Q wrote: The implementation of a signature radius/explosion radius factor, especially for an AOE weapon is silly. In the real world (yes I understand this is a game) when a bomb is detonated on a target, the speed and size of the target have no effect on the damage. Only the targets ability to sustain damage or the yield of the weapon play a roll. In EVE we have a complicated formula that effectively makes bombing frigs and destroyers useless unless they are under MWD.
RL explosion mechanics are pretty complicated, but size (or more precisely, inertia) of a target has a MAJOR influence on how much damage it takes from an explosion.
In EvE, bombing non-MWD frigates is not entirely useless with a bomber. One bomb is enough to kill fragile and/or MWD frigates, and 3 bombs will kill most frigates. This makes killing targets a little more challenging, but is not something terribly difficult to do. Your suggestion, and I'd just sit on a gate spamming d-scan when I know a frig gang is coming through. When at the appropriate range, I decloak, bomb, bomb, bomb and the entire frigate gang will all die as they exit warp before they can even regain control of their ship. Give me a squad of 8 bombers, and I'll take out gangs of cruisers and BC's in a manner they can't stop. You can currently do something close, but getting the timing down is fairly difficult. Having the ability to spam bombs would be insane!
Tiye Q wrote: Bombers are only effective in null and w-space as it is. There is no use for bombers in low or hi-sec...where they are completely susceptible to frigates, and destroyers.
If a frigate or destroyer is susceptible to a bomber while not under MWD, that is a possibility, but not a bad thing.
First off, bombers are used in lowsec and highsec. They make excellent structure bashing ships, are the preferred FW mission running ship, and are excellent at engaging large targets.
Next, Bomb changes are irrelevant to lowsec and highsec, as you can't use bombs there. So your proposal doesn't change the bombers role in lowsec or highsec.
Finally, bombers are high dps, very mobile, and effective at the roles they do. Why should bombers to be good at killing frigates and destroyers to boot? |
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