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Defenzer
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Posted - 2006.02.07 04:43:00 -
[1]
I've been looking at the pirate implants and I think Slave and Crystal implants could have been handled better. Here's why:
Armor is not a self-recharging item. Boosting armor points does nothing other increase the number of armor points you have. Any flat increase you get from Slave implants is quickly eaten during combat. Slave implants should increase the repair amount instead of giving you extra points of armor. This would increase the usefulness of Slave implants.
Shields are a self-recharging item. Like cap, anything that increases the base amount of shields also increases their recharge rate. Instead of increasing the amount of shield boost, Crystal implants should increase shield amount. This would slightly reduce the usefulness of Crystal implants, but they would still be very valuable.
The way it is now, Crystal implants are FAR superior to Slave implants. With one minor change, they could be so much more equitable.
But that is just my opinion. I am sure all of the shield tankers out there with Crystal implants will strongly disagree. That's OK. I expect it.
shield boost amount
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.02.07 04:50:00 -
[2]
I agree with Crystal implants being HP boost only. The way they are right now makes them a "must have" item for any shield tankers. But I don't think Slave should be changed to armor repair amount, it would result in the same situation.. where they become "must have" items. It might even be worse because armor tanks are far easier to sustain indefinitely. The only downside is that you usually have to use dual reps to achieve good results. The new Slave set would eliminate that.
There is the small issue of shields regenerating and any hitpoint increase gives shields a small benefit which armor doesn't have but frankly.. who cares? I can name one person who passively shield tanks right now. How many can you name? 
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Defenzer
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Posted - 2006.02.07 05:10:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Defenzer on 07/02/2006 05:10:14
I guess I am confused by your logic... why should there only be one "must have" implant set and why should it only benefit shield tankers? Why not make Slave sets as viable and useful in an armor-tanking setup as Crystals are in a shield-tanking setup?
My suggestion to change the Crystal set was not to relegate it to the short bus full of passive shield tankers. My assumption was that active shield tankers would still use them. My point was that having Crystal implants increase the boost of an already self-recharging item seemed far superior to the Slave set that increases the points of a non-self-recharging item.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.02.07 05:23:00 -
[4]
Actually, every effective shield tank depends at least partially on its passive recharge.
A fully skilled shield tanked Tempest, using PDU II's as it's power source gets an additional 30 sps in addition to its active tank. With 60% hardening that's another 70 or so dps it can soak up.
Harry Voyager
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I'm not an idiot; I just play one on the forums. |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.02.07 05:32:00 -
[5]
My point was that both sets are overpowered with a bonus to boosting/repairing amount. They should both be hitpoints only, thus making niether one of them a "must have".
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Black Lotus
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Posted - 2006.02.07 06:02:00 -
[6]
Just like every ship has its SPECIFIC uses, so do implants.
Slave implants would be great for fleet, having that extra armor buys u the time to warp ur bs out.
Crystal implants are great yes, but does not do u much good when ur ship goes down in 10 seconds in a fleet battle.
The sig (cant remember name atm) implants on a tempest, which already has lowest sig of all tier 2 BS, would be devastating to a torp raven.
A dmg fitted armageddon would also benefit nicely with that extra armor.( 3 dmg mods, 3 tracking, 2 1600 tungsten, would make for a nice gatecamp breaker.)
Another major benefit, like the example above, is u dont need to fit a repair to receive the benefits. With crystal implants, u do need to fit a shield booster.
Sometimes extra HP is only delaying the inevatable(sp?), but sometimes its the difference in keeping ur ship.
Anyways, just my opinion. Certain ships are good for certain situations, same for implants. All depends how u choose to use them to ur benefit.
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Vina
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Posted - 2006.02.07 06:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vina on 07/02/2006 06:01:59
No.
However, I am not against making slave a repair amount set.
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Defenzer
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Posted - 2006.02.07 06:09:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: DigitalCommunist
My point was that both sets are overpowered with a bonus to boosting/repairing amount. They should both be hitpoints only, thus making niether one of them a "must have".
Ahhh... OK. I thought you were defending the Crystal boost while not supporting a change to the Slaves. I can agree with you here though. Whatever the case, I disagree with allowing one to be much more powerful than the other (as the Crystals are over the Slaves).
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.02.07 06:45:00 -
[9]
 well both of them come out fair superior to halo implants
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.02.07 06:53:00 -
[10]
If you make SLave a repair amount set I will beat you with TimB's Nerfbat.
Actually I'll use my 100k Plus armour Moros to beat you with.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.02.07 07:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Black Lotus
Slave implants would be great for fleet, having that extra armor buys u the time to warp ur bs out.
Crystal implants are great yes, but does not do u much good when ur ship goes down in 10 seconds in a fleet battle.
Thats true, and all the more reason to change Crystal implants to HP, because missile ships need to be in the battlefield a lot longer to deal damage than turret ships as theirs is delayed.
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.07 08:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: dalman on 07/02/2006 08:25:56
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Black Lotus
Slave implants would be great for fleet, having that extra armor buys u the time to warp ur bs out.
Crystal implants are great yes, but does not do u much good when ur ship goes down in 10 seconds in a fleet battle.
Thats true, and all the more reason to change Crystal implants to HP, because missile ships need to be in the battlefield a lot longer to deal damage than turret ships as theirs is delayed.
Hmm, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought ppl didn't take 2B+ worth pods into fleet battles where lag determine if you survive or die.
(except if we're talking a capital ship pilot)
My issue with this is that everything with shield tanking is multiplicative (in contrast to armor tanking). This makes highend shield tanking very overpowered to highend armor tanking.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.02.07 08:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Black Lotus
Slave implants would be great for fleet, having that extra armor buys u the time to warp ur bs out.
Crystal implants are great yes, but does not do u much good when ur ship goes down in 10 seconds in a fleet battle.
Thats true, and all the more reason to change Crystal implants to HP, because missile ships need to be in the battlefield a lot longer to deal damage than turret ships as theirs is delayed.
I think that would majorly screw over the people that spent what, 1.5bil on the full high grade set...bad idea.
They should change the slave set to make our repairers more efficient so it's equal ground.
________________________________________________________
WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
<Narcissus> I read Meridius is always correct on Wikipedia once |
dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.07 08:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gierling
If you make SLave a repair amount set I will beat you with TimB's Nerfbat.
Actually I'll use my 100k Plus armour Moros to beat you with.
Oh, and this???
What good is a 100.000 base armor Moros, when a Phoenix can actively tank 65.000 raw damage per second with it's shields?
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.07 08:34:00 -
[15]
You could probably have some sweet, sweet passive setups if crystal set doubled your shields...
Not that I'll have a set for a long, long time.
However I have to say that both sets have their perks. From an observer's view, I'd say crystal is best in small engagements and ratting, but the boost to armor in general is probably pretty big for those larger fights where boosting barely slows down your death.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve...
This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran  |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2006.02.07 10:47:00 -
[16]
I like my slave implants just as they are thank-you very much 
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Gierling
If you make SLave a repair amount set I will beat you with TimB's Nerfbat.
Actually I'll use my 100k Plus armour Moros to beat you with.
Oh, and this???
What good is a 100.000 base armor Moros, when a Phoenix can actively tank 65.000 raw damage per second with it's shields?
I'm just curious but how did you arrive at that latter figure?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.02.07 10:54:00 -
[17]
Yes, nerf, now!
I want to see jim raynors face! 
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.07 10:59:00 -
[18]
Either both Slave And Crystal Give Boost to Shield booster/Armor repairers or They both become +HP.
Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.07 11:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
I like my slave implants just as they are thank-you very much
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Gierling
If you make SLave a repair amount set I will beat you with TimB's Nerfbat.
Actually I'll use my 100k Plus armour Moros to beat you with.
Oh, and this???
What good is a 100.000 base armor Moros, when a Phoenix can actively tank 65.000 raw damage per second with it's shields?
I'm just curious but how did you arrive at that latter figure?
Capital shield booster + (probably an amp) + Crystal set + Siege mode probably.
Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2006.02.07 11:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
I like my slave implants just as they are thank-you very much
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Gierling
If you make SLave a repair amount set I will beat you with TimB's Nerfbat.
Actually I'll use my 100k Plus armour Moros to beat you with.
Oh, and this???
What good is a 100.000 base armor Moros, when a Phoenix can actively tank 65.000 raw damage per second with it's shields?
I'm just curious but how did you arrive at that latter figure?
Capital shield booster + (probably an amp) + Crystal set + Siege mode probably.
Well, duh! 
I'm not seeing how it gets that high though...
(6400 x 1.3 x 1.53 x 2)/(10 x 0.5) = 5091 HP/sec
Even if you had 70% resistances across the board thats still 48K/second short...
So what am I missing here?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.07 12:09:00 -
[21]
then i get he was exagerating and throwing numbers out of his ass.
Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.07 12:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
I like my slave implants just as they are thank-you very much
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Gierling
If you make SLave a repair amount set I will beat you with TimB's Nerfbat.
Actually I'll use my 100k Plus armour Moros to beat you with.
Oh, and this???
What good is a 100.000 base armor Moros, when a Phoenix can actively tank 65.000 raw damage per second with it's shields?
I'm just curious but how did you arrive at that latter figure?
Capital shield booster + (probably an amp) + Crystal set + Siege mode probably.
Well, duh!
I'm not seeing how it gets that high though...
(6400 x 1.3 x 1.53 x 2)/(10 x 0.5) = 5091 HP/sec
Even if you had 70% resistances across the board thats still 48K/second short...
So what am I missing here?
try double faction amps at 37.5% each + siege mode + crystal set + 3x 37.5invols + capital booster
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.07 12:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KilROCK
then i get he was exagerating and throwing numbers out of his ass.
yep :)
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.07 12:22:00 -
[24]
That was indeed not an exact number, just an estimate, but something very possible; you can get it a bit higher than that actually. Feel free to to the maths yourself.
That's with 1 capital shield booster in siegemode, with crystal implants, officer amps and hardeners.
You can also factor in gang assist mods - something that is becomming a reality nowadays - and again favour shield boosting due to the multiplicative way it works.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.07 13:04:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gronsak on 07/02/2006 13:04:29
back on topic.
slaves and crystal implants should be reversed.
personally i think they should both just add to the shields/armor ie like slave set.
the crystal set makes shield tanking even more over powered then it is naturally. and on capital ships ypu really see the crystals potential.
worst of all. the crystal set further makes the raven the npc ship of choice. perhaps 9 out of every 10 npc BS are raven and **** like this isnt helping.
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Porro
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Posted - 2006.02.07 13:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 07/02/2006 13:04:29
the crystal set makes shield tanking even more over powered then it is naturally. and on capital ships ypu really see the crystals potential.
worst of all. the crystal set further makes the raven the npc ship of choice. perhaps 9 out of every 10 npc BS are raven and **** like this isnt helping.
I dont understand that, you complain that the implants overpower ships, then want the effects reversed so armor tanks become overpowered?
What about just making them reduce shield boost cycle time making them need crazy cap use But as meridius said itd screw over people who payed 2 bil for a high grade set but they still make shield tanks sillier and do need a nerf. I prefer the make them both hp increase style one.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.07 13:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Porro
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 07/02/2006 13:04:29
the crystal set makes shield tanking even more over powered then it is naturally. and on capital ships ypu really see the crystals potential.
worst of all. the crystal set further makes the raven the npc ship of choice. perhaps 9 out of every 10 npc BS are raven and **** like this isnt helping.
I dont understand that, you complain that the implants overpower ships, then want the effects reversed so armor tanks become overpowered?
What about just making them reduce shield boost cycle time making them need crazy cap use But as meridius said itd screw over people who payed 2 bil for a high grade set but they still make shield tanks sillier and do need a nerf. I prefer the make them both hp increase style one.
he actually made both points (reversed, and both do hp increases) in the same post, so tbh I'm completely confused as to what he wants :)
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