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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2006.02.08 08:53:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Levin Cavil on 08/02/2006 09:01:12
Note that these fittings assume all fitting skills at lvl 5 and 5% cpu implants. I know the launcher CPU implant is slot 6 which sucks for people with crystal sets but thats a different discussion for a different time (although I think it should go in slot 10, just like gun CPU implants.)
Raven:
6x Cruise Launcher II
PG: 5908.5
CPU: 282.15
2x Hvy Diminishing Nos
PG: 4000
CPU: 80
1x XL Shield Booster II
PG: 500
CPU: 170
1x Copasetic Shield Boost Amplifier
PG: 1
CPU: 40
3x T2 shield hardeners
PG: 3
CPU: 132
1x Faint Warp Prohibitor
PG: 1
CPU: 32
3x PDS II
PG: +1.157625x
CPU: 45
2x BCS II
PG: 2
CPU: 80
Megathron:
7x Electron II
PG: 6893.25
CPU: 274.3125
1x Hvy Diminishing Nos
PG: 2000
CPU: 80
1x 100mn MWD II
PG: 1375
CPU: 75
1x Heavy Cap Injector I
PG: 1750
CPU: 40
1x Faint Warp Prohibitor
PG: 1
CPU: 32
Langour Web:
PG: 1
CPU: 20
2x Large Accomo
PG: 4000
CPU: 96
3x Armor Hardener II
PG: 3
CPU: 132
2x Mag Stab II
PG: 2
CPU: 60
TOTALS:
Raven:
861.15/875 CPU
10415.5/13746.8 PG
Megathron:
809.3125/687.5 CPU
16025.25/19375 PG
I think the two setups are very comparable, both ships have full highs of their smallest weapon and comparable tanks. Unfortuantely T2 tanking modules use an insane amount of CPU.
If the setups are very similar then why is the Megathron unable to fit its smallest weapon? The fitting is not even close, it's over by 121.8 CPU, even with a single rep and an empty high slot the ship is still unable to fit the comparable setup. Also note that with faction boosters/reps (2x Shadow Serp reps on Mega and 1x Dread Gurista booster on Raven) The Megathron still falls far short on cpu but the Raven has the equivalent of a tech 2 tank.
Anyone else see a problem with this?
¼_¼ |
fl0pski
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Posted - 2006.02.08 09:01:00 -
[2]
hedgehogs play in sandy mud
dont drink rain water
and so on.
/me bows
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.02.08 09:31:00 -
[3]
Well i need to fit dual 425mm ac on my tempests to allow me to fit nos and t2 reps without doing anything silly like using medium cap injecters  Everyone cries about mega vs temeps but raven has it way better at least you noticed
But yes mega need the cpu looked at, tho they've had loving lately (powergrid boost)
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
dalman
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Posted - 2006.02.08 09:34:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Levin Cavil
Note that these fittings assume all fitting skills at lvl 5 and 5% cpu implants. I know the launcher CPU implant is slot 6 which sucks for people with crystal sets but thats a different discussion for a different time (although I think it should go in slot 10, just like gun CPU implants.)
I don't see how that matters really:
Everyone with a slave set will use slot 10 for the +armor implant. So they have to bend over as much as the raven user.
Second, it seems you added the CPU of 2x heavy nos on the mega.
But the point still remains
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.02.08 09:49:00 -
[5]
Also it would be nice to see a ship that isnt gonna have nos on Id hate to see mega being able to fit neutrons AND nos
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.02.08 09:58:00 -
[6]
its TomB wrath for Gallente having the solopwn mobiles
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Porro
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Posted - 2006.02.08 09:59:00 -
[7]
haha :) Heavy diminishings arnt 80 cpu, they're 40 btw.
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Fi T'Zeh
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Posted - 2006.02.08 10:03:00 -
[8]
Although i agree with your point over all, it's slightly bizarre to talk about a strictly t1 / t2 setups but then talk about pirate implant sets and +5% cpu fitting implants. If we're going to introduce meta items then why not go the whole hog and trick the ships out with Faction items. It muddies the argument.
If we're going to use a totally t1/t2 setup to make the case then please don't start adding a 5% implant into the mix.
....
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2006.02.08 10:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Levin Cavil on 08/02/2006 10:15:47
Sorry about the CPU on the Hvy nos, it's fixed now.
The point of this is that The megathron falls far short of being able to fit even its smallest guns without faction modules. Even with all T1 mods the cpu is very very tight. Most other ships do not have this problem. Even without the heavy nos on it still falls short on CPU and has a highslot open. No matter how you look at it the ship is extremely low on CPU.
What is the point in Ion and Neutron blasters? As I understand their damage is only 7 and 14% better respectively but they are literally impossible to fit.
This is not a request to have any ship nerfed but the CPU use on tech 2 blasters is insane. Yes the ship did get love "recently" (PG change was like a year ago) but the PG reduction doesn't help much when you have 2k pg and -120cpu.
This also brings another important point up which is the insane CPU use on tech 2 tanking modules. The Dominix is the only ship I know of that can reasonably fit a full tech 2 tank resonably.
Originally by: Sun Ra
Also it would be nice to see a ship that isnt gonna have nos on Id hate to see mega being able to fit neutrons AND nos
The cap use on neutrons and even ions is so high that even with a heavy nos and an injector you will run out of cap quickly.
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
Although i agree with your point over all, it's slightly bizarre to talk about a strictly t1 / t2 setups but then talk about pirate implant sets and +5% cpu fitting implants. If we're going to introduce meta items then why not go the whole hog and trick the ships out with Faction items. It muddies the argument.
If we're going to use a totally t1/t2 setup to make the case then please don't start adding a 5% implant into the mix.
The point is that the raven has at least some option to make it fit, it may not be very good as illustrated by the fact that it prevents you from properly using a faction implant set. However assuming the use of fitting implants for missiles or turrets is a pretty good indication that you are not using faction implants and so its not likely that you would have faction modules either.
I think it's perfectly resonable to assume that the pilot can use a fitting implant and it's also important to note that the megathron falls far short of its cpu needs even with the implant, if you did not use the fitting implant the situation wuld onlybe worse.
¼_¼ |
Gierling
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Posted - 2006.02.08 10:14:00 -
[10]
IMHO, this is a problem you get when you span one weapon series across two races, one of which with a a particularly obscene CPU on thier ships.
Might be helped by dropping the cpu on Blasters some as they require CPU heavy items like a MWD.
I'm more concerned about the weak grid on the Domi though as far as Gallent Battleships are concerned, IT is pretty much pigeanholed into specialty configs because it lacks the fitting for any direct configurations (All railguns, all blasters)
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2006.02.08 10:20:00 -
[11]
I used a raven in this example but it is a similar case no matter what ship you look at. Generally speaking you can at least fit a full rack of the smallest gun. With a megathron you have to leave slots open and use fitting implants to even get close and to get any kind of setup that works you have to invest a lot of isk in faction cpu saving modules.
¼_¼ |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.02.08 10:21:00 -
[12]
We all know that blasters are being looked at, see 500000000 other threads regarding this.
Your point is valid, but has been mentioned many times before.
It will be fixed soon(tm).
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Fi T'Zeh
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:23:00 -
[13]
ZOMG testy that was a gilt edged, served-on-a-plate opportunity to mention minmatar. You missed ze open goal :P
....
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
ZOMG testy that was a gilt edged, served-on-a-plate opportunity to mention minmatar. You missed ze open goal :P
No, that's Gronsak... But i think he's not doing it anymore since he got a alt specced for it.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
ZOMG testy that was a gilt edged, served-on-a-plate opportunity to mention minmatar. You missed ze open goal :P
No, that's Gronsak... But i think he's not doing it anymore since he got a alt specced for it.
he has an alt speced for everything - why does he still keep posting?
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
ZOMG testy that was a gilt edged, served-on-a-plate opportunity to mention minmatar. You missed ze open goal :P
you have failed us testy 
---------------------------
My opinions are my own and not nessecarily those of my corp or alliance.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
ZOMG testy that was a gilt edged, served-on-a-plate opportunity to mention minmatar. You missed ze open goal :P
No, that's Gronsak... But i think he's not doing it anymore since he got a alt specced for it.
he has an alt speced for everything - why does he still keep posting?
Until he 'thinks' he knows everything about each of them, he won't stop mumbling.
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Amarr knight
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Posted - 2006.02.08 15:56:00 -
[18]
Blasters cpu issue is known problem. There are already couple of threads in the first page about blaster issues. Check them out.
And just a suggestion, if you really want to this thread to focus on blasters and megathron, dont compare it to a Raven. Otherwise it will soon turn into a "nerf Raven" thread rather then a "fix blaster" thread.
Amarr Knight
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2006.02.08 17:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Amarr knight
Blasters cpu issue is known problem. There are already couple of threads in the first page about blaster issues. Check them out.
And just a suggestion, if you really want to this thread to focus on blasters and megathron, dont compare it to a Raven. Otherwise it will soon turn into a "nerf Raven" thread rather then a "fix blaster" thread.
Yes, I Know, I used the Raven as an example but any ship would work. Raven probably isnt the best example but that doesn't change the fact that blaster CPU is completely insane atm.
I won't even get into their effectiveness :P
¼_¼ |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.08 17:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: KilROCK on 08/02/2006 17:03:24
You own a Navy Issue Megathron Levin, If it's so easy to fit and effective to use a raven compare to it.. Why aren't you selling it for a CNR?
Not flaming you on that, it's a great ship. But until they fix it, it's seems to be just a bad choice to use it instead of a CNR
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Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:52:00 -
[21]
The raven is stupidly overpowered and always has been... with all the boosts in RMR it is just retarded. I would love T2 ammo that allowed my mega to insta pop ceptors, or T2 ammo that gave me WTF DPS (of course the caldari ammo has no meaningfull downfall, unlike the weaker turret ammo).
Your post about fitting just demonstrates the point... if the raven needed the same skills to fit out well as the other races the Jita lovers wouldn't be as interested in playing eve. If T2 torps requiered even close to the skills that T2 turrets did those Caldari agent runners would quit playing eve...
CCP has intentionally nerfed all the races and given Caldari the easiest path in eve. I have corp mates that have been playing for only 4 months and are already getting T2 missiles.... seriously WTF? Either nerf Caldari or boost all the other races...
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:55:00 -
[22]
Levin have you tried 6 guns and 2 nos? That would be more compatible with the 6 cruise launchers and 2 nos of the raven.
sgb
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:04:00 -
[23]
just refer to several other "blasters have fitting issues" threads here.
You can't say that the situation exist from a lack of players voicing the issue.
Ofc, if there were less off topic and overgeneralized whining it would help. Just stick to the fitting issue and that's it....
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Gronsak on 08/02/2006 20:07:35
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Levin have you tried 6 guns and 2 nos? That would be more compatible with the 6 cruise launchers and 2 nos of the raven.
sgb
compairing cruise or torps directly with any blaster on the megathron isnt ideal as it is.
first off the crusie will hit upto any range the raven can lock.
where the blasters are limited to 10-15km max.
while looking at what can and can not be fitted onto a ship u need to consider what the setup can do and not do. how effectively it can and cant do that job.
even if both setups where possible to fit you would need to look at a lot of factors before the ships are ballanced.
PROJECTILES ARE FINE
FINE I TELL YA
WTF DO U THINK IS WRONG WITH THEM?
DONT GIVE ME THE BULL**** ABOUT DPS FOR YOUR HIGHEST GUN IS THE SAME AS FOR GUNS ONE LOWER |
Zephyrlin
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
The raven is stupidly overpowered and always has been... with all the boosts in RMR it is just retarded. I would love T2 ammo that allowed my mega to insta pop ceptors, or T2 ammo that gave me WTF DPS (of course the caldari ammo has no meaningfull downfall, unlike the weaker turret ammo).
Your post about fitting just demonstrates the point... if the raven needed the same skills to fit out well as the other races the Jita lovers wouldn't be as interested in playing eve. If T2 torps requiered even close to the skills that T2 turrets did those Caldari agent runners would quit playing eve...
CCP has intentionally nerfed all the races and given Caldari the easiest path in eve. I have corp mates that have been playing for only 4 months and are already getting T2 missiles.... seriously WTF? Either nerf Caldari or boost all the other races...
Anti-Raven/Anti-Caldari Troll Count: 47
Amount of Whining Produced: 903 Metric Tons
Countdown Until Next Whiny Outburst: 97 Seconds
Seriously. Balance is never going to be perfect. But to go off repeatedly about how easy the Caldari have it, and blah blah this that and the other... I'm tired of seeing it, personally.
The Raven is a good ship. So is the Megathron. So is the Dominix. So is the Apoc. So is XXXXXX. It all depends on how you use it. Does the Raven have advantages over other ships? Yes. Do other ships have advantages over the Raven? Yes. So... where does that leave us?
As for 4 month old characters having T2 missiles. I'm 4 months old, and I can use T2 rails and blasters. So. Your point is?
Yes, T2 Torps are easier to train for than T2 Large Turrets. That isn't entirely balanced. But, Missiles and Turrets have a lot of major differences that aren't exactly equal either. Rather than just analyze the skill reqs to use them, look at the whole picture, including all the periphery skills Gunnery has vs Missiles, then the actual in-game performance of each, then the varieties of ammo for each, etc. In the end, it's probably close to balanced.
Anywho, ****, moan, whine, etc, all you want, it's not going to accomplish anything. Now, if you want to suggest some steps that you think could be taken to "balance" things, please do. But if you can only throw 5 year old temper tantrums... well... the romper room is that way ---->
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And God said...
"Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...." |
Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2006.02.09 06:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Levin Cavil on 09/02/2006 06:38:21
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 08/02/2006 17:03:24
You own a Navy Issue Megathron Levin, If it's so easy to fit and effective to use a raven compare to it.. Why aren't you selling it for a CNR?
Not flaming you on that, it's a great ship. But until they fix it, it's seems to be just a bad choice to use it instead of a CNR
Actually I am selling it because it's virtually the same as a regular megathron but custs 900million isk more. The Navy Thron also has less armor than a CNR.
The reason I don't fly a CNR is that I chose the Megathron, it's my favorite BS and the one I chose to train skills for. I don't have skillpoints for the CNR or ravens in general and I thought that the point of tech 2 was to promote specialization. Why should I have to fly the CNR? Why should it be so much better? Isn't there supposed to be balance?
As far as the Navy Raven vs Navy thron debate, just look at base stats. Raven gets more cpu, a 7th launcher and has more shield AND ARMOR than the Navy thron. The only bonus to a Navy Thron is more hitpoints (not as many more as CNR gets) and an 8th low. The 8th low provides like 100 dps with faction mods. I have over 600million isk invested in faction mods on my Navy Thron and I have less than 1 CPU spare.
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Levin have you tried 6 guns and 2 nos? That would be more compatible with the 6 cruise launchers and 2 nos of the raven.
sgb
I don't see how thats more comparable. Yes the mega gets more guns, the Raven also gets more NOS. And yes I have tried it, The damage fron 6 electrons is pitiful and the cap gained from the 2nd nos doesnt really help you at all. If I remember correctly a T2 electron with max fitting skills and a 5% cpu implant uses less cpu than a hvy nos anyway so Fitting 6 guns and 2 nos provides no advantage at all.
¼_¼ |
PMolkenthin
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Posted - 2006.02.10 03:34:00 -
[27]
Im glad its not just me. I've been trying to fit a 'Blasterthron' setup on my Navy Megathron, but Electron Blasters are all I can fit. Granted I only have 5mil SP, but even with the electrons, (and faction mods) I have to make cut-backs elsewhere.
I tested out my setup against a corp mates Sacrilage, with dissapointing results. My damage output was poo-jangles and I possibly would have gone home in an egg if it was for real.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.10 03:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Levin Cavil
Originally by: Amarr knight
Blasters cpu issue is known problem. There are already couple of threads in the first page about blaster issues. Check them out.
And just a suggestion, if you really want to this thread to focus on blasters and megathron, dont compare it to a Raven. Otherwise it will soon turn into a "nerf Raven" thread rather then a "fix blaster" thread.
Yes, I Know, I used the Raven as an example but any ship would work. Raven probably isnt the best example but that doesn't change the fact that blaster CPU is completely insane atm.
I won't even get into their effectiveness :P
LARGE blaster CPU. On a single ship.
This indicates a problem where? Yes, the ship. Not the weapons.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.02.10 03:46:00 -
[29]
Increase damage by 15%.
Increase mega CPU by 60 >.<.
---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool.
Industrialists wanted |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.10 04:47:00 -
[30]
"The raven is stupidly overpowered and always has been... with all the boosts in RMR it is just retarded. (..)
seriously WTF? Either nerf Caldari or boost all the other races..."
I've got perfect solution for that, right here:
Resentment (rank 1 skill, intelligence / willpower)
"Born out of intense frustration, this skill allows pilot who faces hated Raven for once skew the odds in their favour. When engaged in combat with one, there's a certain chance for the overpowered monstrosity to spontaneously and instantly self-destruct.
20% bonus to chance for the attacking Raven to blow up on the spot per level."
Resentment Focus is rank 3, but allows to get their pod, too...
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