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Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.08 11:14:00 - [1] Why do they all have very similar hitpoints? Titans are easily 50 times bigger than a mothership, or at least something close. But they have the same hitpoints. And motherships are much bigger than carriers, but still have the same hitpoints. Or at least close. Shouldn't motherships, costing 15 billion, have at least 10 times the hitpoints of a dread? And shouldn't titans, being a 75 billion investment that balloons to over 150 billion when you count the BPOs, take a bit more than 40 seconds of firing by a massive gankfleet to kill? Especially considering you can stop them from warping by bumping them IIRC like you can with freighters? I really hope the stats on a titan are placeholders, because I don't want to be that alliance that builds one for 75 billion and ends up with it being ganked in half a minute -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Roxanna Kell	Posted - 2006.02.08 12:11:00 - [2] Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 08/02/2006 12:13:21 Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 08/02/2006 12:12:28 being immune to EW, must have something to do with it i guese. and hey, those things needs to go down you know. but they also have more cap and more slots, so they can TANK better.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.08 12:12:00 - [3] dont make them tak better thats not what people are saying make them have more HP thus a buffer before you pop.
Twin blade	Posted - 2006.02.08 12:12:00 - [4] Well motherships are just carrier's with a a bigger fighter bay and cargo bay so i can sort of see why there HP is close but titan's god know's.
Asurix	Posted - 2006.02.08 12:13:00 - [5] dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about?
Roxanna Kell	Posted - 2006.02.08 12:14:00 - [6] ^^he is right now that i checked. hmm? WAKE UP DARK
Diana Merris	Posted - 2006.02.08 14:40:00 - [7] The little carriers that are as small as a battleship have 25k, the mother ships have ~50k and titans are ~65k. Titans are 20 to 30 times the size of a mothership but only have 1/3rd more HP. I think the titan should probably have atleast 100k if not 250k. Titans are supposed to be huge but they're HP seem to mean they are made of cardboard and balsa wood.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.08 14:42:00 - [8] i understand what you mean. they should have lots of HP but they cant be warp scrambled. thus the only way i can see beating one is 1; lag 2; ctd 3; pop him before he can warp out 1 and 2 are luck so dont count and 3 would be impossible with a 250k hp buffer.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about? And? A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread. Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:05:00 - [10] Does warp scrambling and webbing count as ecm in this case then? I haven't checked this on test but surely invulnerability to ecm only covers stuff like dampners, ecm, tracking disruptors? What would the point be in a ship that can always warp? sgb
Asurix	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about? And? A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread. Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about? And? A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread. Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field Can you launch doomsday weapons through jump fields? Don't see why, you can't fire through stargates... And gang bonuses only work in the same grid as the gang, so these gang assist ships do really need to have tanking ability. And hitpoints. sgb
Asurix	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Asurix on 08/02/2006 19:11:33 they do have hitpoints don't they? they still have most hp of anything ingame!! so don't start ''they CAN't tank'' and YES, you can fire doomsday devices through a cyno field other then that, put your titan at an SS in the same system if you want the gang bonus then, but this isn't an individual investment, this is an alliance ship, and people who get this ship know what they're doing. It's like the nukes, ''oh **** let's not invade them or they'll launch something that does 55k damage to everyone in a huge radius''
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Asurix Edited by: Asurix on 08/02/2006 19:11:33 they do have hitpoints don't they? they still have most hp of anything ingame!! so don't start ''they CAN't tank'' and YES, you can fire doomsday devices through a cyno field other then that, put your titan at an SS in the same system if you want the gang bonus then, but this isn't an individual investment, this is an alliance ship, and people who get this ship know what they're doing. It's like the nukes, ''oh **** let's not invade them or they'll launch something that does 55k damage to everyone in a huge radius'' Interesting about firing weapons through a field. But afaik gang bonuses only apply when you are in the same GRID as your gang, ergo parking your titan at a ss is pointless on that side of things. i can see where you are coming from for the other 3 ship classes but i have to agree with the initial poster that titans, being so much larger than every other ship, should have more hitpoints. Providing, of course, they are not immune to warp scramblers. sgb
Krathe	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:16:00 - [15] Titans can ONLY fire the super weapon through a cyno field in the same system. The pictures Wrangler didn't want you to see!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:17:00 - [16] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/02/2006 19:17:12 I just see it being somewhat weird when something 20 kilometers long is as easy to kill as a dreadnought or something much smaller. A titan should be killable, but not that easily. They are unlikely to be built until they are made at least a bit stronger than their much smaller counterparts. Remember, to get the Titan in the system you have to activate a cyno field, which anyone can warp to. Its not like its invincible. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Sasha Anderson	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:18:00 - [17] They still should have more hitpoints. A guy got 32k armor with a cruiser. Aint it aint costing 75 bil http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=283880&page=1#23
Asurix	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:38:00 - [18] you have to be in same system for gang bonus i think, and other then that, a titan is not supposed to be in the middile of a friggin fleet battle anyway.
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Asurix you have to be in same system for gang bonus i think, and other then that, a titan is not supposed to be in the middile of a friggin fleet battle anyway. Same grid mate. Pretty sure anyway, it got changed when command ships came in. sgb
Asurix	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:42:00 - [20] well i was in a hunting gang 2 days ago and i got a shield bonus while my gang-bonus-man was in another astroid belt
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:43:00 - [21] meh. wish someone could clearly state for 100% if its grid or system.some swear its grid others swear its system lol well when meh alt can use the ship ill let you know if its system or grid. til then at lest ill be in the fark about it PROJECTILES ARE FINE FINE I TELL YA WTF DO U THINK IS WRONG WITH THEM? DONT GIVE ME THE BULL**** ABOUT DPS FOR YOUR HIGHEST GUN IS THE SAME AS FOR GUNS ONE LOWER
Serin Nadiir	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:54:00 - [22] OK I know CCP isnt big on the whole "real physics" thing, but 3 times as big != 3 times as strong from an engineering standpoint. After a certain point structural integrity becomes harder and harder to keep up with size. Think about ants. Not only that, but much of the Titans' and Motherships' space is dedicated to specialized equipment which wouldn't help matters defensively. Gameplay-wise I can't really tell you. Maybe they do need a boost. But size alone doesn't justify one, nor does cost neccessarily dictate effectiveness.
Jezala	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Asurix A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field I disagree with that. Titans are excellent focal points for fleet battles to be fought around. You'd think that a ship that size should have a fraction of the hit points that a small POS has. In my opinion, titans should have enough hit points such that it can survive a fleet battle raging around it and should only be destroyed after the escort fleet has been destroyed, allowing the attacking fleet to focus fire on the Titan for 10-15 mins.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.02.08 20:37:00 - [24] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about? And? A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread. Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field Can you launch doomsday weapons through jump fields? Yes, you can. Please read up on titans. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.02.08 20:40:00 - [25] Perhaps after CCP adds xlarge and capital shield extenders and armor plates, they can add special 'Station' extenders/plates that would be Titan-only, or take the majority of cpu/grid on other capital ships, and give like 50-100k shields/armor? Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
ElCoCo	Posted - 2006.02.08 20:58:00 - [26] Um a dread in siege mode has more firepower (if you forget tracking) and tanking capabilities than a titan. That alone looks odd heh I think titans should be big badda omgwtfbbq'ers and by looking at their hp's.... duh, not realy. Tbh I think their HP's should be at least two times what they are now... And until further notice I believe they can be scrambled... the bumping thing is something different. Some things begin not to be appealing to me... placing yourself in a safespot to provide gang/link bonuses etc is not my idea of fun... and it's bad to even assume(by CCP) that there should be alts just for that job.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.08 20:58:00 - [27] The dread is expressly designed as a tanking monster. The primary intended application is taking down POS, which means a big-ass tank. Titans are not designed for this. They're not really even designed for front-line combat. Their main selling points IMO are the doomsday weapon and the rebirth and fleet maintenance abilities. This is a totally different kettle of fish to the dreadnaught.
Asurix	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:07:00 - [28] Titan's aren't meant to kill POS or tank a whole fleet. They're meant as a mobile station. This is a role it's good at, and what you guys are saying is you want another role for the titan.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:21:00 - [29] I'm pretty convinced Titan HP is a joke, and most of the people here commenting probably have no idea what kind of firepower is involved in an average sized fleet battle. Lets do some math, shall we? -Dual Capital Armor Reps on Avatar.. (not even sure if thats sustainable without officer mods but meh..) -9600 per rep, 19,200 for both. -30 second cycle time, reduced to 22.5 seconds with that hefty skill at V. -853.3 HP repaired per second -assuming 86% average resists with 64% hardeners and gang skills.. -complete tanking ability of 6095 raw hitpoints per second -assuming average of raw 750 dps per battleship.. That comes to a majestic number of EIGHT BATTLESHIPS required to break the tank on a Titan. By comparison, using the same math and values, a Revelation can take on THIRTY TWO BATTLESHIPS before its tank begins to fail. And purely for my own amusement, assuming a force of 20 battleships, the Titan would go pop in thirty seconds under sustained fire. Thats 70billion isk for the bpo, weeks of hauling, months of training and construction, 50billion in minerals gone in thirty seconds. I guess this is why CCP tried to distinguish them from Empire Titans, which had millions and millions of hitpoints.
ElCoCo	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Asurix doomsday device is a fleet-vaporator, and there will only be very few titans in game and the firstone maybe in 3 months Have you seen one in action? You must be sleeping and/or looking at all the shiny lights to be caught dead in it
Vegeir	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:31:00 - [31] Edited by: Vegeir on 08/02/2006 21:33:07 Qouted from the chronicle Their value is indescribable. Functioning for those who own them as a mobile base of operations as well as a flagship, Titans turn the tides of war with their mere presence. Aside from their blistering armament and many-metres-thick armour, they boast the ability to transport entire fleets within their hulks across entire star systems. Qouted from and online dictionary: "Many" Amounting to or consisting of a large indefinite number 1600mm Steel plating is an addition to armor, measuring 1.6meters in thickness. It adds 2400HP of armor. So a Titan, which is qouted to use many (a large number) of meters thick armor should have how much armor? Would 20 meters be many meters? An apocalypse has 6k base Armor that's equivalent to 4 meters thickness using 1600mm plate as a basis. An Archon Carrier 18meters thick, the Aeon Mothership 36.6meters thick, and an amarrian titan 46.6m armor. Now let's look at size and mass. Apoc 107.5mil kg , Archon 1.0125 Billion KG, Aeon 1.2375 Billion KG, Avatar 1.6875 Billion kg Strangely the Mothership which is less then 1/10th the physical dimensions of a Titan has 73% of it's mass. Using the ship chart J0sephine we can deduce size increase too Apoc - .1075Bil KG - 4m armor Archon - 1.0125Bil Kg - 18m armor - 2-3x as big as Apoc Aeon - 1.2375bil Kg - 36.6m armor - 2-3x as big as archon Avatar - 1.6785bil Kg - 46.6m armor - easily 10x as big as Aeon So you have an increase in mass of: 1,000% -> 20% -> 27% An increase in armor of: 4,500% -> 200% -> 27% an increase in size of: 300% -> 300% -> 1,000% I agree with dark shikari. It just does not add up. One the mass of titans should be enormously higher then it is. But aside from that the armor should be a much higher increase. 27% more armor then a mothership is just ridiculous. Originally by: Vegeir Experience exists in EVE, it just isn't measured in numbers.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:32:00 - [32] Titan allows you to do the following: Set up cyno field Jump titan in to spot of your choice Rebirth entire fleet to titan OMGWTFPWN anyone in system
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:39:00 - [33] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Titan allows you to do the following: Set up cyno field Jump titan in to spot of your choice Rebirth entire fleet to titan OMGWTFPWN anyone in system Except, you can do that by taking over their conquerable stations, and it doesn't cost 120bil and months of mining/production. And you won't even get to do that much, because its not exactly hard to spot hostiles filling up local.
ElCoCo	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Titan allows you to do the following: Set up cyno field Jump titan in to spot of your choice Rebirth entire fleet to titan OMGWTFPWN anyone in system It's still unclear to me how this works? You are in a system, do the jump portal generator and that's it, your entire fleet can jump there? No number restrictions or anything? All jump at once or with each activation? Fuel consumed by each ship jumping? In the meantime can everyone in the system warp to you? (like when opening cynofield) etc etc etc
Meridius	Posted - 2006.02.08 21:43:00 - [35] Titans are massive, there HP should represent that. It just doesn't make sense that they have similar HP to that of a dreadnought. Look at how huge they are ffs. They should have around 200k armor/shield/structure. If you disagree, go back to grade 2. ________________________________________________________ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran <Narcissus> I read Meridius is always correct on Wikipedia once
Baun	Posted - 2006.02.08 22:47:00 - [36] Edited by: Baun on 08/02/2006 22:49:11 Originally by: Twin blade Well motherships are just carrier's with a a bigger fighter bay and cargo bay so i can sort of see why there HP is close but titan's god know's. Motherships have clone bays and are immune to EW. Anyway, given how crummy the doomsday weapons are, Titans need alot of HP or maybe some sort of built in siege function that doesn't mess up their tracking. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.08 22:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Baun Edited by: Baun on 08/02/2006 22:49:11 Originally by: Twin blade Well motherships are just carrier's with a a bigger fighter bay and cargo bay so i can sort of see why there HP is close but titan's god know's. Motherships have clone bays and are immune to EW. Anyway, given how crummy the doomsday weapons are, Titans need alot of HP or maybe some sort of built in siege function that doesn't mess up their tracking. whats wrong with the doomsday weapon? 37.5k burst dmg iirc will instapop anything under a tanked BS pop all non tanked ships bar capital ships and with a massive range. -------------------Sig----------------------- PROJECTILES ARE FINE FINE I TELL YA WTF DO U THINK IS WRONG WITH THEM? DONT GIVE ME THE BULL**** ABOUT DPS
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.08 22:55:00 - [38] Originally by: DigitalCommunist I'm pretty convinced Titan HP is a joke, and most of the people here commenting probably have no idea what kind of firepower is involved in an average sized fleet battle. Lets do some math, shall we? -Dual Capital Armor Reps on Avatar.. (not even sure if thats sustainable without officer mods but meh..) -9600 per rep, 19,200 for both. -30 second cycle time, reduced to 22.5 seconds with that hefty skill at V. -853.3 HP repaired per second -assuming 86% average resists with 64% hardeners and gang skills.. -complete tanking ability of 6095 raw hitpoints per second -assuming average of raw 750 dps per battleship.. That comes to a majestic number of EIGHT BATTLESHIPS required to break the tank on a Titan. By comparison, using the same math and values, a Revelation can take on THIRTY TWO BATTLESHIPS before its tank begins to fail. And purely for my own amusement, assuming a force of 20 battleships, the Titan would go pop in thirty seconds under sustained fire. Thats 70billion isk for the bpo, weeks of hauling, months of training and construction, 50billion in minerals gone in thirty seconds. I guess this is why CCP tried to distinguish them from Empire Titans, which had millions and millions of hitpoints. QFT. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Baun	Posted - 2006.02.08 22:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Baun Edited by: Baun on 08/02/2006 22:49:11 Originally by: Twin blade Well motherships are just carrier's with a a bigger fighter bay and cargo bay so i can sort of see why there HP is close but titan's god know's. Motherships have clone bays and are immune to EW. Anyway, given how crummy the doomsday weapons are, Titans need alot of HP or maybe some sort of built in siege function that doesn't mess up their tracking. whats wrong with the doomsday weapon? 37.5k burst dmg iirc will instapop anything under a tanked BS pop all non tanked ships bar capital ships and with a massive range. Its just a bit underwhelming. No one is going to sit still with a Titan in the system. But I think an in born Titan siege mode makes alot of sense :O The Enemy's Gate is Down
Benglada	Posted - 2006.02.08 23:15:00 - [40] Isnt thier a mod that gets you 10% of your armor (works like an plate but as a percentage) so therefore you can have like 7,500 armor per one of these? so you could put like another 30k of armor on it.. --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.08 23:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Benglada Isnt thier a mod that gets you 10% of your armor (works like an plate but as a percentage) so therefore you can have like 7,500 armor per one of these? so you could put like another 30k of armor on it.. Yeah but nobody is going to gimp their tank to get another 30k armor. Titans need more hitpoints, as in 1 million or 500,000 hitpoints minimum. Maybe a few million. The current 70k or so is very underwhelming. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.02.08 23:26:00 - [42] Being big doesn't mean a lot of hit points, it just means there's a lot of vital systems to protect (hit points is an indication/avarage of when damage goes critical). Now, were it more realistic, you'd be able to bore critical holes in certain parts of the hull, while other part would still be fully protected. However... meh! The real issue is that Motherships and Titans aren't getting super-powered reps/boosters. Sure, they can bugger off almost any time (provided cyno field in nearby system and 70% cap), especially since they are immune to NOS/Neuts (afaik). They just can't stick around and tank a larger fleet. On the other hand, maybe a LOT more hit points is preferable, since the damned things shouldn't be invulnerable. Invlunerable ships, no matter the cost/cause, is just plain BAD. Woe on the devs who made: Ares & Raptor Gall Recons Eris & Heretic
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.08 23:28:00 - [43] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Benglada Isnt thier a mod that gets you 10% of your armor (works like an plate but as a percentage) so therefore you can have like 7,500 armor per one of these? so you could put like another 30k of armor on it.. Yeah but nobody is going to gimp their tank to get another 30k armor. Titans need more hitpoints, as in 1 million or 500,000 hitpoints minimum. Maybe a few million. The current 70k or so is very underwhelming. or better yet natural t2 resistances. with 250k hp. -------------------Sig----------------------- PROJECTILES ARE FINE FINE I TELL YA WTF DO U THINK IS WRONG WITH THEM? DONT GIVE ME THE BULL**** ABOUT DPS
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.02.08 23:39:00 - [44] Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 08/02/2006 23:42:12 Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 08/02/2006 23:40:57 Titans shuld have some sort of "anchor mode" in wich they represent a station, and are celestial objekt that alows warping to option. This whuld increase theye HP to a station lvl's + tank and booster. Also, it can shoot ^^ and launch doomsday wepon, other than that, it acts as a space station. (refine, factory, refit, hangars, etc...) it will take some time to anchot/unachor it tho, like 1 to 3 hours or so... edit Also, they shuld be able to anchor anywhere, and not nececerly visible to all as celestial objekt. So you need system scan for it. But given 3h long achor times, its possible to find before it runns off..
Daedalus Maxwell	Posted - 2006.02.09 04:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about? And? A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread. Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field Bull****, if I spend 150 billion bucks on a something that better be an I-Win button otherwise what in the nine hells of dante would be the point when you'd have more capability fielding 10 motherships or about 100+ carriers? I've said a long time ago Titans should be similar to what the devs showed off, namely having millions of HP in shields and armor, taking them down should involve hundreds of people or more and not just in 10 minutes either. Outside of a prestige symbol right now a Titan doesn't have a lot going for it.
DarK	Posted - 2006.02.09 04:31:00 - [46] Jesus. Those who are going "omg a titan isn't an I-win button, it's supposed to be insert role here" need to silence themselves. 120 billion isk dictates that they should have ****loads of HP. They shouldn't be unkillable, but they should be on that end of the killability scale. Doesn't need tankability, it needs survivability and that is all.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.02.09 04:45:00 - [47] While they were worked on, titan prototype had basically copy-and-paste stats of your typical conquerable station (including 50 mil hp of hit points) Which i thought was pretty neat; tad bit extreme perhaps, but given their size, expenses and logistics needed to build one... it damn sure should take at least multiple dreadnaughts sieging it for considerable while, in order to tear it down. So at least few million hp on them could be expected. (the shield recharge rate could be set to near 0, so Pottsey wouldn't build infinite passive tank machine on one ... if it was seen as problem) The current hp stats are... meh :/
BirdBleed	Posted - 2006.02.09 05:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Asurix Titan's aren't meant to kill POS or tank a whole fleet. They're meant as a mobile station. This is a role it's good at, and what you guys are saying is you want another role for the titan. so let me get this straight .... a station can last 20 mins with a few dreads + fleet of bships firing at it .... yet a mobile station (titan) which costs 4-5 times more than an outpost (which cannot be destroyed) is suppose to pop within 30 seconds ?
BirdBleed	Posted - 2006.02.09 06:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about? And? A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread. Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field a titan sitting 10 jumps away is useless seeing as he has to be in the same grid for the gang bonusses to take effect, same grid = down and dirty in a fleet battle. Doomsday weapon, same thing, u have to be in the same system, meaning an enemy fleet can use probes/warp cov ops to cyno field when u enter system, warp to the titan and pop u within 30 seconds. The doomsday weapon will also kill your fleet as well so if u are primary in a fleet fight, and u activate the doomsday device, goodbye both fleets. And if you dont kill enough of the enemy, u cant use your doomsday device for another 60 hours or something like that. These things need more hitpoints or theres no point in building them

Chribba	Posted - 2006.02.09 09:25:00 - [50] Altho I do agree with that the titan should have more armor/etc, but is there anything that prevents the titan from simply jumping out as a countermeasure to being unable to warp due to bumping? Maybe it needs a force field that bounces off every ship around it so it can warp... And Empire Titans FTW! Just make sure they can fit them Capital Strip Miners heee EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Get Email if thread updates

Sokra	Posted - 2006.02.09 09:40:00 - [51] donno if it¦s a myth but interdictor sphere probes prevent a mothership from jumping and warping. But the only entity confirming this, would be BOB, the devs don¦t talk much these days
Nifel	Posted - 2006.02.09 10:16:00 - [52] Just something to point out which most people seem to have missed. Regarding the doomsday weapon the skill required to use it increase the damage by 10% per level. This brings it back up to the 50+k damage it initially had during testing. Now stop whining about that particular thing and go back to discussing how little hp titans have :p. The mothership could use a hefty hp increase as well. Especially considering interdictor spheres will most likely get fixed so that you can't warp out of them if you've hit the warp button before they get deployed. "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata
Jaqs	Posted - 2006.02.09 19:46:00 - [53] Edited by: Jaqs on 09/02/2006 19:56:24 Those doomsday weapons are mainly for taking out or mostly hostile fleets whatever the make up that would somewhow get too close to the titan.Obviously a bunch of other uses but thats the main one. Titans should defently be like they were when devs were showing off in testing.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.02.09 20:04:00 - [54] Granted the Titans seen pre-RMR were more dev 'playthings', and the new titans are meant to be smaller versions but still... those did have starbase-scale hitpoints. 1-2M hitpoints in armour/shield would not really be that overpowering considering the damage output from larger fleets. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Twin blade	Posted - 2006.02.09 20:10:00 - [55] Edited by: Twin blade on 09/02/2006 20:11:46 Even if we give them a massive hp boost then how do we kill them yes they need the boost but there has to be away to kill one as well. Boost hp you need to stop it beening able to run when ever it need's. Allow it to be jammed and you end up with how 1 frig can jam a titan forever when its built to resist Ewar. Its not some thing that saying wack 5000k more armor on and allow it to be jammed and saying there fixed. I think it needs a good boost say 500k armor base and build in a siege mode much like a dread. Then you have a titan able to tank but can not move put a delay of say 10 mins befor it is able to move after it turn's siege mode off. That way you have a titan that can be killed but is worth the cost of building and using it in a fleet fight.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.02.09 20:32:00 - [56] Edited by: j0sephine on 09/02/2006 20:32:57 "Altho I do agree with that the titan should have more armor/etc, but is there anything that prevents the titan from simply jumping out as a countermeasure to being unable to warp due to bumping?" Lack of necessary capacitor level to perform jump, due to cap drain and plain tanking (if i understand it right)
Lagar	Posted - 2006.02.09 21:02:00 - [57] if you can afford a titan you can afford the whole slave implant set.. thus improving the armor HP by alittle over 50% giving alot more armor
KrakizBad	Posted - 2006.02.09 21:31:00 - [58] I like the idea about being able to anchor yourself. Sense it's a mobile structure esentially, that would be cool. Make you have anchoring lvl 5 along with some other absurd skills you wouldn't normally train to 5. Another bit i am thinking is in regards to the issue of Super tank versus ew resist. I think maybe a compromise could be reached here. They could do something similar to titans they did with blockade runners. Just build in warp strength. Give them like 100. On first glance that seems huge. But you could get a frig fleet of 25 ships with 2x 2 strength scramblers to hold him down. Or you could put scramblers on scorpions to make them more useful in this post rmr galaxy of ours. Then on top of this ou could add the tons of hp you all want. In my head that would create this scenario: Titan warps in with his fleet. The enemy fleet engages and gets the required scramblers on him. Make it so it takes about 10 min. for a large fleet to down him. This gives the titans group a period where they can kill off the scramblers to save their titan, or pop off the dmg dealers and hopefully out tank them long enough to criple their forces. Imho this would eliminate the conflict of super tank versus unscrambleable (there's a dubya word for you, lol)
Gierling	Posted - 2006.02.09 21:59:00 - [59] Unfrotunately if the titan had a million hitpoints it could be used in POS assualts. Heck it could solo POS'. But even without guns it could just remote boost a dread or tow and wham, you have three guys taking territory. not saying I agree with it, just saying that is thier logic. PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.02.09 22:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Gierling Unfrotunately if the titan had a million hitpoints it could be used in POS assualts. Heck it could solo POS'. But even without guns it could just remote boost a dread or tow and wham, you have three guys taking territory. not saying I agree with it, just saying that is thier logic. I very much doubt that, check the calculations on page 2 that I did. Even if you had hitpoints your Titan would get obliterated in a matter of minutes. I fail to see why a Titan can't be used against POS, it has 5-6 XL weapon hardpoints after all, those are relatively useless in a fleet battle. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Graalum	Posted - 2006.02.09 22:14:00 - [61] Originally by: KrakizBad I like the idea about being able to anchor yourself. Sense it's a mobile structure esentially, that would be cool. Make you have anchoring lvl 5 along with some other absurd skills you wouldn't normally train to 5. 1)Make titans an achorable ship, with say an easy 3 minute delay. A) can be anchored anywhere, but not within 100 km of another anchored structure. B) large bonuses to weapons once anchored c) if pilot goes offline, another person can board, regardless of skills and run guns, etc d) once anchored guns and EW equiptment still behave like a ship 2) add a new skill, say force field projection, and a new unit, a mobile force field projector. A) this would not use cap or anything, but POS fuels to run. A highslot unit for sure. B) have some POS like sheild figures: 20km radius, 30 mil hitpoints, different size sheilds for different skills. c) enter reinforced mode and burn through strontium when sheilds hit, cannot exit reinforce mode until strontium is gone. Can not use maintainance array or hanger array while in reinforced. D) Unboard sheild boosters can boost the sheild E) standard hardeners do not work on the field F) cannot unanchor ship while field is active, cannot reactiveative sheild for 30 min after offlining sheild. G) once online, the ships sheild becomes irrelevant. 3) Massive maintanance array, say 50,000,000 m^3 4) Massive hanger array, say 5,000,000 m^3 A) separate hold for fuels 5) increase hitpoints to 200k, 200k, 200k when not anchored, increase mass and decrease velocity. 6) Add Anchoring level 5 as prerequisit
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.02.09 23:08:00 - [62] "Unfrotunately if the titan had a million hitpoints it could be used in POS assualts. Heck it could solo POS'." POSes can be already assaulted well with handful of dreadnaughts -- difference in isk amount risked in the operation is staggering and not to the titan benefit. And attacking POS solo with a titan? by all means, i'd _love_ someone try that. Seeing how it's basically handing you the easiest way to kill such ship, short of finding one afk in safespot. "But even without guns it could just remote boost a dread or tow and wham, you have three guys taking territory." Again; anyone getting a titan with maybe 1-2 ships of assistance in attack on someone else's territory, that will take at least couple hours to accomplish... deserves to be beat over the head with that ship. repeatedly. But by all means, please someone go ahead and try pull such stunt. =)
yomtvraps	Posted - 2006.02.09 23:21:00 - [63] Originally by: Vegeir Edited by: Vegeir on 08/02/2006 21:33:07 Qouted from the chronicle Their value is indescribable. Functioning for those who own them as a mobile base of operations as well as a flagship, Titans turn the tides of war with their mere presence. Aside from their blistering armament and many-metres-thick armour, they boast the ability to transport entire fleets within their hulks across entire star systems. Qouted from and online dictionary: "Many" Amounting to or consisting of a large indefinite number 1600mm Steel plating is an addition to armor, measuring 1.6meters in thickness. It adds 2400HP of armor. So a Titan, which is qouted to use many (a large number) of meters thick armor should have how much armor? Would 20 meters be many meters? An apocalypse has 6k base Armor that's equivalent to 4 meters thickness using 1600mm plate as a basis. An Archon Carrier 18meters thick, the Aeon Mothership 36.6meters thick, and an amarrian titan 46.6m armor. Now let's look at size and mass. Apoc 107.5mil kg , Archon 1.0125 Billion KG, Aeon 1.2375 Billion KG, Avatar 1.6875 Billion kg Strangely the Mothership which is less then 1/10th the physical dimensions of a Titan has 73% of it's mass. Using the ship chart J0sephine we can deduce size increase too Apoc - .1075Bil KG - 4m armor Archon - 1.0125Bil Kg - 18m armor - 2-3x as big as Apoc Aeon - 1.2375bil Kg - 36.6m armor - 2-3x as big as archon Avatar - 1.6785bil Kg - 46.6m armor - easily 10x as big as Aeon So you have an increase in mass of: 1,000% -> 20% -> 27% An increase in armor of: 4,500% -> 200% -> 27% an increase in size of: 300% -> 300% -> 1,000% I agree with dark shikari. It just does not add up. One the mass of titans should be enormously higher then it is. But aside from that the armor should be a much higher increase. 27% more armor then a mothership is just ridiculous. Can you expect a mobile station to be fairly identicle to a regular station? And, are stations solid or mostly hollow inside? There's your answer.
Indy X	Posted - 2006.02.09 23:31:00 - [64] reading all this just makes me come to one conclusion: If any corp out there ever gets a titan, never tell anyone about it and above all never leave the station... But that's just my opinion :P
Acwron	Posted - 2006.02.09 23:53:00 - [65] Any Titan pilot not sitting at his POS is doing something very wrong. The titan gives you one stratigic weapon. (well perhaps two if you count the ability to warp other ships) And once you paid for the BPOs the Titan isn't that much more expensive than the Mothership.
Andarias	Posted - 2006.02.10 00:31:00 - [66] Originally by: yomtvraps Originally by: Vegeir Edited by: Vegeir on 08/02/2006 21:33:07 Qouted from the chronicle Their value is indescribable. Functioning for those who own them as a mobile base of operations as well as a flagship, Titans turn the tides of war with their mere presence. Aside from their blistering armament and many-metres-thick armour, they boast the ability to transport entire fleets within their hulks across entire star systems. Qouted from and online dictionary: "Many" Amounting to or consisting of a large indefinite number 1600mm Steel plating is an addition to armor, measuring 1.6meters in thickness. It adds 2400HP of armor. So a Titan, which is qouted to use many (a large number) of meters thick armor should have how much armor? Would 20 meters be many meters? An apocalypse has 6k base Armor that's equivalent to 4 meters thickness using 1600mm plate as a basis. An Archon Carrier 18meters thick, the Aeon Mothership 36.6meters thick, and an amarrian titan 46.6m armor. Now let's look at size and mass. Apoc 107.5mil kg , Archon 1.0125 Billion KG, Aeon 1.2375 Billion KG, Avatar 1.6875 Billion kg Strangely the Mothership which is less then 1/10th the physical dimensions of a Titan has 73% of it's mass. Using the ship chart J0sephine we can deduce size increase too Apoc - .1075Bil KG - 4m armor Archon - 1.0125Bil Kg - 18m armor - 2-3x as big as Apoc Aeon - 1.2375bil Kg - 36.6m armor - 2-3x as big as archon Avatar - 1.6785bil Kg - 46.6m armor - easily 10x as big as Aeon So you have an increase in mass of: 1,000% -> 20% -> 27% An increase in armor of: 4,500% -> 200% -> 27% an increase in size of: 300% -> 300% -> 1,000% I agree with dark shikari. It just does not add up. One the mass of titans should be enormously higher then it is. But aside from that the armor should be a much higher increase. 27% more armor then a mothership is just ridiculous. Can you expect a mobile station to be fairly identicle to a regular station? And, are stations solid or mostly hollow inside? There's your answer. In adition, jump drive generators require enormous mass, and jump hole generators exponentially more than that. Wouldn't you think?
VantDre	Posted - 2006.02.12 10:32:00 - [67] At least stop arguing single point of attack, by saying things like its hallow or its weak, or implying super structures are usually just. If I could blow the deck off your bridge or breach your pod I would. Its representation of a Titan, thats really at fault here, with how many of the others have been saying an overwhelming under sight on it. Titans regardless of how they would be built in a virtual world would be redundant spaceships like all are/should be. The bigger the ship the more the need for even more and more plating, and would make it even stronger still. I think those that argue for more hit points for the ship are quiet valid. Even with them coming out with very little The actual cost in gameplay terms in ISK is a very valid argument vs the great use that a mobile station provides. I truly hope that someone doesn't think that their fragility will make them more less used to keep them more rare and exotic because as this is a simular dissatisfying trend in other MMORPGS that EVE SHOULD NOT BE. Its to much like the dreadnaught if its this weak, its not a catapult, its a base. Truely a game breaker for me if there ever was one. But luckily I will never fly one of these out of shear anticipation of its destruction. I honestly don't see it as a good thing for an Alliance, as these former analyses have shown very very well how easily its destroyed. Maybe CCP will see this, or just some sadistic twist to watch a few die first.
Randay	Posted - 2006.02.12 11:43:00 - [68] since when does volume or mass determine hp? ------------------------------------------- "Det hSr kan betyda krig!"
Alcander	Posted - 2006.02.12 11:55:00 - [69] Mass and volume have nothing to do with armor. The fact the titans have so much volume should give a clue as to why they are so fricking big. And their mass is also taken up by those big jump drive engines and all the support systems needed to keep this mobile POS running. So it's armor is fine where it is. Quit your whining and *****ing and if you don't like how the Titan is set up, don't buy one. Simple as that. -------------------------------------------------- You can run, but you'll only die tired. this is a very smart person PURPLE FOR PURPLES SAKE
Nafri	Posted - 2006.02.12 11:59:00 - [70] titans should have tons of structure, its right that you can easily loose such a thing to a CTD and we all know how often you CTD in bigger combats
agent apple	Posted - 2006.02.12 12:26:00 - [71] Any vastly superior "mega" ship has game balance issues. The current stats would appear to work well by forcing players to use the titan as it is intended. For example you set up a mobile field base within an hour using a large pos place the titan inside it (giving it a very nice ~30 million sheild defense (even more if you consider resistances appllied well instead of weapons) the titan can then act as a mobile spawn point for the fleet jumping into a system engaged in hostilities. I think this was the intended use as it allows for "prolonged" engagements rather than some mega weapon that finshes off fleets in 30s. The titan whilst in a pos will have awesome defense in its massed fighters which it can attack with whilst still in the pos by assining them to dedicated defenders not to mention the fire power of a large pos. This leads to battles waged over several days constanly without respite with the engaged fleet trying to get the enemey on the retreat or offguard and sneaking up to attack the titan quickly before reinforcements can arrive (hence the jump clones). I agree in theory it should have more hp, in practise this would mean money=pwnage as opposed to what makes eve great which is real tactical know how of commanders.
Kharakan	Posted - 2006.02.12 13:21:00 - [72] IMHO, a titan is friggin' massive, but that's because it's got to store all the clone bays, battleships and whatever else you choose to put in there. While a dreadnought is a lot smaller, they're designed for operating under heavy fire and dishing out large amounts of firepower in return. So it makes sense that a dreadnought is a lot more solid than a titan, with hugely thick armour and powerful shielding, simply because it doesn't need all the extra space for storage etc. Originally by: ParMizaN evry1ghasb a limiy... ...and ijust reached it ahaha... this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer I am annexing your space! Haha! I win! - Wrangler Imaran > Wrangler
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.12 13:26:00 - [73] You could argue that the designers realised they could never realistically have enough armour on a Titan for front-line ops, so they decided it was a better use of resources to give them respectable plating and then use their mass and minerals budget elsewhere.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.12 14:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Alcander Mass and volume have nothing to do with armor. The fact the titans have so much volume should give a clue as to why they are so fricking big. And their mass is also taken up by those big jump drive engines and all the support systems needed to keep this mobile POS running. So it's armor is fine where it is. Quit your whining and *****ing and if you don't like how the Titan is set up, don't buy one. Simple as that. Then why do they have so little structure if they're so huge? -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron POKEMON -eris Jacques was 'ere Capsicum still is
Bishop 5	Posted - 2006.02.12 14:06:00 - [75] I liked it when they had like, 3 mil armour HP... that was cool... I'd reccomend doubling the HP across the board tho.. plus, the pilot of the titan should be so uber you can crank out another 50%+ HP No point puttin a noob in it -------------
Kharakan	Posted - 2006.02.12 14:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Alcander Mass and volume have nothing to do with armor. The fact the titans have so much volume should give a clue as to why they are so fricking big. And their mass is also taken up by those big jump drive engines and all the support systems needed to keep this mobile POS running. So it's armor is fine where it is. Quit your whining and ***ing and if you don't like how the Titan is set up, don't buy one. Simple as that. Then why do they have so little structure if they're so huge? I'd guess that would be because their internal structure would be largely open space (for all the ship storage) Originally by:** ParMizaN evry1ghasb a limiy... ...and ijust reached it ahaha... this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer I am annexing your space! Haha! I win! - Wrangler Imaran > Wrangler
Stitcher	Posted - 2006.02.12 16:16:00 - [77] Just a thought - but the sheer size and mass of a ship doesn't necessarily reflect its breaking point. There are fusion reactors in there, plus fuel lines, ammo feeds and stockpiles, all kinds of things. I tend to think of a ship's hit points reflecting just how far the damage control systems can be pushed before it all becomes too much to handle, and one of the fusion drives overloads, or there's a flashback to an ammo stockpile that sparks a chain reaction, or some similar catastrophic failure of a primary system, leading to destruction. The bigger the ship, the larger and more elaborate the support systems, so it makes sense to me that there would be a limit to how far you can push a titan's survivability. Still, I agree, they do look a bit fragile for what they are. I'd have been happier with a straight 100K HP basic starting point for each system, modified according to the race template.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.12 17:05:00 - [78] Originally by: Kharakan Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Alcander Mass and volume have nothing to do with armor. The fact the titans have so much volume should give a clue as to why they are so fricking big. And their mass is also taken up by those big jump drive engines and all the support systems needed to keep this mobile POS running. So it's armor is fine where it is. Quit your whining and *****ing and if you don't like how the Titan is set up, don't buy one. Simple as that. Then why do they have so little structure if they're so huge? I'd guess that would be because their internal structure would be largely open space (for all the ship storage) And while they'll need a lot of internal bracing and stuff, it will all be under full load already. The best analogue for struture hit points I can see is basically the amount of structural overdesign, ie the saftey margin that's left over after operating stresses are taken into account. A metal beam with a load rating of twenty tonnes holding fifty kilos will have a lot more "effective structure hit points" than a beam with a rating of fifty-five tonnes holding sixty tonnes.
Calenth	Posted - 2006.02.24 14:06:00 - [79] Going by what I learned from the movies, a single one-man fighter can blow up a Titan, so i'm guessing that means the low hit points make sense.
Halet Cu	Posted - 2006.02.24 14:32:00 - [80] I agree with the initial poster. For something that is supposed to be the size of a small moon, it should have a massive number of hps. Even without addtional armor, the sheer volume of metal/minerals it would take to build the beast would make it a herculean task to kill it. IMO these ships should be almost impossible to kill due to their size. However, in order to prevent them from being invulnerable, one should be able to knock out its weapons turrents and their docking bays (if they have them) and even their sublight engines to prevent them from manuvering. So even if you can't destroy the ship, you can destroy its capabilities rendering it useless in a battle.
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2006.02.24 15:24:00 - [81] Killing a titan should be an uber achievement, if dreads have siege mode then you really want to have it turn into a capital ship battle with a few dreads in siege and a titan on the other end and not have it all end in 30 seconds flat. However I guess a Titan gets its main strength from its fleet in the same war a modern aircraft carrier does. President Huzzah Federation Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today!
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2006.03.17 14:47:00 - [82] Agreed ! I also see the Titan as more of a fleet deployment tool Than a UBER Weapon (Even if it is a mobile Deathstar) I also agree with mr Shikari, It really outta have more HP's Ah well. After calculations Im still looking at over 1 year to fly one. Just wait ! Soon players/miners will be, PvP'ers have titans can we have a mini titan that gets mining bonuses. You gotta love this game sometimes.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.03.17 14:52:00 - [83] Even Freighters has more HP then Carriers. So asking for a Carrier HP boost is justified at least... "We brake for nobody"
Manion Taleroth	Posted - 2006.03.17 14:59:00 - [84] A larger ship actually would actually be easier to take down. A large target is easier to hit and ultimately harder to maintain. Armor is between the inside and space, not front to back.
Dreez	Posted - 2006.03.17 17:26:00 - [85] I totally agree with the OP. Titans were, according to the early fictionbased info, supposed to be able to change the gravtiation of planets by the sheer presence. Give titans the HP worthy of a titan. If it takes 30 battleships to break the tank of a revelation, then its only fair that it takes atleast 40 to break the tank and kill a titan. Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
ElCoCo	Posted - 2006.03.17 17:38:00 - [86] Titans should get a built-in siege mode ability and the problem is partly solved. Right now a single dread in siege mode has more firepower and more staying power than a titan which is silly. For the effort,skills and isk involved, yes I think titans should be omgwtfbbqer's The game and it's ships abilities shouldn't be designed by taking for granted that everyone should have an alt and if they don't they shouldn't be flying a capital ship. Since appart from a dread, they will be all day sitting at a safespot. Where's the fun in that?
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.03.17 18:37:00 - [87] One would thinkt hat a ship that cost allmost 100bil and take smonths to make would'n't get killed by 8 BSs. Taking oen down should be an epick battle, with the entire fleet firing at it for half an hour while interdictors keep it at place.
CaseusFeles	Posted - 2006.03.17 20:22:00 - [88] The biggest issue here is the scale of things. If it takes 30 seconds for a fleet to destroy a 75k HP Titan, then making it have 1mil HP, would mean (by logic) it would take about 7 minutes to destroy it still. The use of titans as a combat ship is obviously a flawed choice, yet even with millions of HP, any sized fleet could easily put your 120bil investment down the drain. I think the issue that needs to be adressed here, is whether or not Titans should have any combat capabilities at all. If Titans had say...2mil HP, T2 Resists, and a full rack of Mid and Low slots, and a full rack of highslots for gang assist modules only (No turret hardpoints), the balance would even out. Sure, the titans would still be able to be taken down by a fleet, but there would no longer be the 30 second insta-death issue, and those complaining about these things being able to solo POS's would be happy. I mean heck, if I'm reading it correctly, a Caldari Control Tower has 50 million shields. Granted, I've never seen a large tower, only mediums, but the size comparrison , and isk-to-shield ratios alone should state that Titans should have a massive amount of defense. Look at how unbelievably huge a titan is! What do you think is in that thing? Just people...walking around? It seems ridiculous that a giant ship wouldn't have something useful in it, like say a GIANT capacitor, or a REALLY huge shield emitter. Maybe inside the Titan's, its just like a giant skeleton, with nothing in the interior.
Drevonion	Posted - 2006.03.17 21:23:00 - [89] Titan 8 high 8 mid 8 low 4-6 turrets or launchers depending on race 25%-50% bonus/level to tracking of XL turrets so they may be used effectively vs bs at long range (due to size of ship ancillary systems for tracking of the weapons have been installed) 75-85 percent resists with 3 hardner tech 2 tank 1 mill + HP on shield and armor. Log off timer of 30 Minutes minimum! This would allow a dedicated fleet the opportunity to detroy the ship, however remove the immunity to Warp Scrambling and add a Warp core bonus of +8 or more due to strength of engines, this should prevent small groups from holding one down. These ships are Strategic Weapons, and should behave like one, Scary as hell, and if your Corp or Alliance cant generate the necessary fleet to take it down, it owns where it is at. That is the point of these ships isn't it, thats what they are meant for, to be used as a Space control ship, and having them so hugely weaker then a Death star POS that costs less then 2% of what it does fully kitted.
Caldorous	Posted - 2006.03.17 22:07:00 - [90] Have you noticed that the motherships are larger (in volume) than the titans? ----------------------------- I know where is the ISD naughty secret
DarthJesus2	Posted - 2006.03.18 05:05:00 - [91] Does anyone have a Titan now? Any alliances that have used them in battle?
Andreask14	Posted - 2006.03.18 05:17:00 - [92] Titans wont go down in 30 seconds. The point of tanking is not to have huge HP but to have high resists, strong reppers and a cap to sustain that tank. With this in mind you will understand why a dreadnaught can last a dozen minutes under fire from a few dozen batlleships. It is because it can sustain its tank, composed of reppers,resits and reppers. The HP only acts as a buffer to activate that tank and to use it to full extent. It will be the same with the titans and the Hp do suffice. What i ask myself is: What will be the Titans role ? The Carriers/MS are support ships, fleet combat ships, their role is to gank ppl or enable others to do it. The Dreads take down the POSes. Will the Titans camp the gate ? Or do all of the above and camp the gate also ? ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
Helper Monkey	Posted - 2006.03.18 16:13:00 - [93] are titans even out ?
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.03.18 16:23:00 - [94] Originally by: Andreask14 Titans wont go down in 30 seconds. The point of tanking is not to have huge HP but to have high resists, strong reppers and a cap to sustain that tank. With this in mind you will understand why a dreadnaught can last a dozen minutes under fire from a few dozen batlleships. It is because it can sustain its tank, composed of reppers,resits and reppers. The HP only acts as a buffer to activate that tank and to use it to full extent. It will be the same with the titans and the Hp do suffice. What i ask myself is: What will be the Titans role ? The Carriers/MS are support ships, fleet combat ships, their role is to gank ppl or enable others to do it. The Dreads take down the POSes. Will the Titans camp the gate ? Or do all of the above and camp the gate also ? Re-read the second page, first post... - Office Linebacker -
deathfighter	Posted - 2006.03.18 20:10:00 - [95] Edited by: deathfighter on 18/03/2006 20:11:02 Originally by: ElCoCo Titans should get a built-in siege mode ability and the problem is partly solved. Right now a single dread in siege mode has more firepower and more staying power than a titan which is silly. actually a dread in siege mode has about 20-24 xlarge guns with 1 bonus. (phenix has 2 bonuses) titans have 6-7 xlarge guns with 2 bonuses mostly. so dread in siege mode outdamage titans by at least 3x. a dual reper titan can tank 1/2 of a single repair dread in siege mode. granted it is hard to run a single rep in siege moded in a dread(cap an isue) but still dreads can pop titans 1v1 easily imo. 3-4 dreads in siege mode can really pop a titan quite fast. btw anyone calculated max dmg of dreads in siege mode? Death

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