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[IDEA FOR DISCUSSION] How to fix Citadel Torpedoes and Cruise Missiles

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ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2321	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:32:00 - [1] - Quote (These ideas came to me whilst I was in the bath, so you know they're inspired.) So, many of the gripes with these particular missiles centre around a main concept: ~~they just plain suck~~ their application is absolutely terrible. Here are my suggestions of how to revamp these awful weapons: Torpedoes: Turn them into a combination of a bomb and remote ECM. That being, make them a projected AoE weapon that does graded damage on the same sort of grading scale as bombs do. This would give the Phoenix and Leviathan some actual appeal in being used against battleship fleets - whilst their awful application at the moment means they're good for little more than shooting at POSes, a slight increase in explosion velocity and reduction in explosion radius (or whichever way makes it hit better, I'm not a rocket scientist) coupled with area-of-effect explosive velocity would mean that the relatively mediocre damage of the Phoenix could be applied to multiple targets at once, whilst dreads such as the Moros retain the role of RIDICULOUS DPS but focused on one target. Cruise missiles: Keep them as single-target weapons, but give them a damage bonus against other capital ships. These missiles are the size of a frigate, they should do about as much damage as a bomb-laden frigate crashing into an enemy capital. Why not create some appeal with the Phoenix and Leviathan by giving them the ability to bust numerous painful aubergine-sized caps in the enemy capital fleet's ass? These are my rough, draft suggestions. Any feedback? I'd also love to hear yours. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved.
Bernie Nator 4U Services Inc. Upholders 673	Posted - 2013.11.02 19:56:00 - [2] - Quote Lower explosion radius. Done.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 545	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote Bump because I like. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
elitatwo Congregatio 143	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:26:00 - [4] - Quote Just plain simple remove all "tracking" attributes from the missiles, problem solved. Now all missiles are fixed and will be able to hurt all ships in EVE again. FB_Addon_TelNo{height:15px !important;white-space: nowrap !important;background-color: #0ff0ff;}
ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2325	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:49:00 - [5] - Quote Bernie Nator wrote: Lower explosion radius. Done. No, not really. You've only made them just good enough to have the same inherent gaping flaws as every other missile type, with the added bonus of being far too slow to hit anything that's moving. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved.
M1k3y Koontz Thorn Project Surely You're Joking 375	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:36:00 - [6] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Just plain simple remove all "tracking" attributes from the missiles, problem solved. Now all missiles are fixed and will be able to hurt all ships in EVE again. You mean Phoenixes and Ravens will rule EVE. That doesn't sound at all OP. 0/10 troll. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2325	Posted - 2013.11.03 12:31:00 - [7] - Quote M1k3y Koontz wrote: elitatwo wrote: Just plain simple remove all "tracking" attributes from the missiles, problem solved. Now all missiles are fixed and will be able to hurt all ships in EVE again. You mean Phoenixes and Ravens will rule EVE. That doesn't sound at all OP. 0/10 troll. I think the aim of the thread was to suggest your own ideas as well as to discuss others'. Wanna contribute? Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved.
Grunnax Aurelius Caldari Provisions Caldari State 217	Posted - 2013.11.03 12:56:00 - [8] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Just plain simple remove all "tracking" attributes from the missiles, problem solved. Now all missiles are fixed and will be able to hurt all ships in EVE again. yeah sure... cause my Cruise Missile Raven with precisions already 3 to 4 volley frigates into vapour, so yeah lets make the raven and phoenix the 1 shot kill boats like back when the cavalry raven still used to exist... Marauder: 1 Subsystem to Modulate the Role they Fulfil: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=271219
ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2373	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:32:00 - [9] - Quote Grunnax Aurelius wrote: elitatwo wrote: Just plain simple remove all "tracking" attributes from the missiles, problem solved. Now all missiles are fixed and will be able to hurt all ships in EVE again. yeah sure... cause my Cruise Missile Raven with precisions already 3 to 4 volley frigates into vapour, so yeah lets make the raven and phoenix the 1 shot kill boats like back when the cavalry raven still used to exist... I agree with this man.
Geingus MASS A SLIGHT ANNOYANCE 1	Posted - 2013.11.10 19:26:00 - [10] - Quote This is actually a really good idea. Probably a bit better than a RCML as a RCML might be a bit over powered.

ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2495	Posted - 2013.11.10 19:35:00 - [11] - Quote Geingus wrote: This is actually a really good idea. Probably a bit better than a RCML as a RCML might be a bit over powered. Agreed - or poorly implemented, as evidenced by the fact that the RHML is now being obsoleted due to concerns of it being "better" than torpedoes or cruises.
Syrias Bizniz Segmentum Solar Nulli Secunda 231	Posted - 2013.11.10 19:54:00 - [12] - Quote So, you want to create a wtfpwnmobile that is the Phoenix by giving it ... 3 modified Bomblaunchers? Hilarious! Just imagine the FC telling his BS fleet to GTFO because 3 Phoenixes cyno'd in. How do you call it again, .... OPPOSITE DAY? :D
Iris Bravemount Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 265	Posted - 2013.11.10 22:14:00 - [13] - Quote As the gentleman above explained, this would just be giving the Phoenix the job of stealth bombers. Dreadnoughts are designed to be structure and captial ship crunshers, not subcap crunshers. If you want to crunsh subcaps, take an approriate ship, but don't complain about the indadequacy of a ship that was never meant to do the job.
ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2501	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:25:00 - [14] - Quote Iris Bravemount wrote: As the gentleman above explained, this would just be giving the Phoenix the job of stealth bombers. Dreadnoughts are designed to be structure and captial ship crunshers, not subcap crunshers. If you want to crunsh subcaps, take an approriate ship, but don't complain about the indadequacy of a ship that was never meant to do the job. No, not necessarily. It would just be giving the Phoenix/Leviathan an interesting new twist on their role. For a start, the missiles don't have to do near as much damage as a dedicated bomb - meaning that they neither encroach on the role of DPS-oriented dreadnoughts nor gangs of stealth bombers, who could feasibly produce 100x the alpha for 1/2 the cost. Nor would these capitals trigger a reduction in the use of bombers; they're much harder and more expensive to deploy, they cannot "GTFO" if the defecation hits the oscillation and there are inherent problems in trying to "surprise ********" with a non-covert cyno and dreadnoughts. The complaints aren't about the Phoenix/Leviathan's "indadequacy" in the role of shooting subcaps, but rather in any* role. They're totally overshadowed by their counterparts, and no sane FC deploys them in favour of, say, a Moros for battlefield DPS or a Revelation for ammo-less POS shooting. Due to the flaws of their weapons system, to give them appeal will require something unique - hence, the off-the-wall proposition here. The DPS dealt by these missiles doesn't even have to exceed the level of a battleship, it's the AoE factor that is important here. It allows a more interesting counter to the idea that Logi is king of the battlefield. Also, "dreads aren't subcap crushers"? Look up tracking dreads
Jasmine Assasin State War Academy Caldari State 114	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:45:00 - [15] - Quote I'm not sure what they need to do, but "moving cautiously" as was implied in an earlier thread (currently back on page 3) implies some kind of movement. So far CCP has failed to "move" at all in regards to the Phoenix. My understanding is, they think any buff to the Phoenix would make it overpowered against targets with multiple webs/target painters on them. I don't think the "problem" is the Phoenix at all but rather webs and target painters. Once these are properly balanced (harder and harder as they give more ships bonuses for these mods, doh!) then we can have a proper discussion of ways to move forward with our favorite beloved if under appreciated Dreadnaught. Either that, or just add 5m/s to the explosion velocity and reduce explosion radius by 5m and see what happens. Wait a couple months, see how it goes and do it again. Once you get to the "OP point" just back it off to the previous iteration. Could probably be done in a couple weeks on the test server if they could move fast enough. Unfortunately it seems to take CCP weeks to act on even the slightest bit of information.
Khan Farshatok Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill B O R G 46	Posted - 2013.11.11 09:29:00 - [16] - Quote its actually more simple than you think. ccp has failed to take into account one simple rule of physics when designing missiles in eve. when something in space explodes it doesnt come to a halt and then send its explosion out from there, the explosion keeps moving in the direction in which the mass was moving when it exploded. an explosion should continue on at the speed and direction the missile was traveling, period. do this and hitting moving capitals and battle ships would be much easier.
Gosti Kahanid Farstriders Apocalypse Now. 32	Posted - 2013.11.11 10:29:00 - [17] - Quote I would like the idea of giving the capital missile users a role against capitals, or only super capitals. Give them a 100% Damagebonus against this shipclass and let it be weak against smaller Ships. This should be possible considering that CCP did the opposite with titans by reducing their damage against Subcapitals
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 596	Posted - 2013.11.11 11:29:00 - [18] - Quote Khan Farshatok wrote: its actually more simple than you think. ccp has failed to take into account one simple rule of physics when designing missiles in eve. when something in space explodes it doesnt come to a halt and then send its explosion out from there, the explosion keeps moving in the direction in which the mass was moving when it exploded. an explosion should continue on at the speed and direction the missile was traveling, period. do this and hitting moving capitals and battle ships would be much easier. That missiles exploasions don't look like shaped charges, so I guess the explosion would move in all directions then? Stupidity should be a bannable offense. Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 961	Posted - 2013.11.11 11:45:00 - [19] - Quote Bernie Nator wrote: Lower explosion radius. Done. Absolutely wrong. This does not help the Phoenix against other capitals or structures. And unless you make the boost really huge, the Moros and Naglfar will still be superior at blapping subcaps. And frankly, I don't think we need dreads to be any better at the blap game. The RCML idea is also awful, for the same reasons.
Geingus MASS A SLIGHT ANNOYANCE 2	Posted - 2013.11.12 08:59:00 - [20] - Quote ElQuirko wrote: Geingus wrote: This is actually a really good idea. Probably a bit better than a RCML as a RCML might be a bit over powered. Agreed - or poorly implemented, as evidenced by the fact that the RHML is now being obsoleted due to concerns of it being "better" than torpedoes or cruises. What? No!

ElQuirko Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us 2515	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:35:00 - [21] - Quote Bump for you, the people. Dodixie > Hek
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 2833	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:32:00 - [22] - Quote To be frank, subcap blapping dreads and titans was NOT the intended role for dreads and titans. EvE players simply took advantage of the mechanics to make these monsters (and CCP's had to nerf XL guns because of it). Frankly, it is NOT explosion radius that needs to be altered, but explosion velocity. Supercaps should not be able to speed tank them, and by leaving the explosion radius alone, you PURPOSELY limit their effectiveness against subcaps. If you want to make missiles more like turrets, you honestly need to change the missile damage algorithm...


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