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Enochx Kaine Cult of War University Cult of War 4	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:40:00 - [1] - Quote So I just took out my omen to rat for a little while...i got tired of slowly putzing around in my harb. And I swear it seem that I am just as effective with the omen. I am ratting in the drone regions, but still......is it possible that an omen can be better than a harb? I don't get hit nearly as hard or as much because I am so much faster. It takes a little longer to melt down the battleships, but not much longer. Am I crazy? Is this possible? I am new to the game, so I am not trolling i swear. Are minmater ships REALLY that much faster than Amarr? Maybe I should fly those since it appears that I am better at flying speedy ships. is this my imagination?
Gigan Amilupar Legion of Darkwind 49	Posted - 2013.11.06 06:14:00 - [2] - Quote "Better" is relative. Sounds to me like your finding the Omen to be faster and hit for less damage then the Harb. And your right, because that's the difference between hull sizes. A cruiser is faster and has less tank and gank, a battlecruiser is slower and has more tank and gank. The reason you seem to be noticing that you are taking less damage is no doubt due to speed tanking the rat battleship guns, as opposed to "actually" tanking it. So yes, it is possible for a cruiser to be better at some tasks then a BC, and you seem to have found a niche for it. Do be aware though, speed tanking cruisers don't have much tank, so if you get webbed or otherwise fly poorly you may quickly regret it. You may consider switching to a attack battlecruiser like the Oracle, less tank then a regular battlecruiser, but battleship levels of damage. And yes, minmatar ships are faster. In fact, minmatar ships boast some of the highest base speeds for ships in the game (Angel cartel ships (a pirate faction) are potentially even faster; an example would be the Machariel which I'm fairly certain is the fastest battleship by a sizeable margin).
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 200	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:25:00 - [3] - Quote Enochx Kaine wrote: So I just took out my omen to rat for a little while...i got tired of slowly putzing around in my harb. And I swear it seem that I am just as effective with the omen. I am ratting in the drone regions, but still......is it possible that an omen can be better than a harb? I don't get hit nearly as hard or as much because I am so much faster. It takes a little longer to melt down the battleships, but not much longer. Am I crazy? Is this possible? I am new to the game, so I am not trolling i swear. Are minmater ships REALLY that much faster than Amarr? Maybe I should fly those since it appears that I am better at flying speedy ships. is this my imagination? Well the harb is ****, and really from a PvP point of view- is useless. Now the omen navy issue on the other hand, is simply amazing- and is a great ship. As for minmitar being faster than amarr ships, well I would say yes and no on that. Omen navy, crusader, slicer, Malediction are all scary fast ships. Generally the minitar have a higher base speed than amarr ships- however amarr ships (when they are shield tanked / speed armor tanked) have more low slots to dedicate to nanos / ODI's than minitar ships generally have. lastly minmitar ships are really sub par at this stage in the game. Pulse lasers + optimal bonus + Scorch are with out doubt the best turrets in game currently.
Enochx Kaine Cult of War University Cult of War 4	Posted - 2013.11.06 14:10:00 - [4] - Quote I was beginning to think that the Harb might be **** for pvp. Like I said, I am still fairly new and I haven't really gotten into any pvp yet because when your best ship is a dessie, there really isn't much of a spot for you in fleets lol. Even now that I am getting my cruiser and battlecruiser skills pretty advanced, I still haven't done more than a POS bash here or there. But my skills are finally starting to pan out and I am building up a small personal fleet so that I can pvp in fleets and not have to worry when I blow up four ships in 20 mins. But I have to base how my ship will react in pvp based on how it flies while ratting, And I am coming to the conclusion that my style seems to favor the fast aggressive ships. THe Harb and the Mallar are pretty sweet and if your skills are up to par, then I am sure that their tank will hold with no problem. But since I only have about 3.5 to 4 million skill points so far, I think it would be wiser for me to speed tank as much as possible. But I digress....Appreciate the responses.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 200	Posted - 2013.11.07 01:58:00 - [5] - Quote Enochx Kaine wrote: I was beginning to think that the Harb might be **** for pvp. Like I said, I am still fairly new and I haven't really gotten into any pvp yet because when your best ship is a dessie, there really isn't much of a spot for you in fleets lol. Even now that I am getting my cruiser and battlecruiser skills pretty advanced, I still haven't done more than a POS bash here or there. But my skills are finally starting to pan out and I am building up a small personal fleet so that I can pvp in fleets and not have to worry when I blow up four ships in 20 mins. But I have to base how my ship will react in pvp based on how it flies while ratting, And I am coming to the conclusion that my style seems to favor the fast aggressive ships. THe Harb and the Mallar are pretty sweet and if your skills are up to par, then I am sure that their tank will hold with no problem. But since I only have about 3.5 to 4 million skill points so far, I think it would be wiser for me to speed tank as much as possible. But I digress....Appreciate the responses. Never compare PvE performance to PvP. A Navy omen will give you amazing performance in small gang / fleet. It has excellent performance. If you like fast agressive ships, a Nano Omen or Shield omen are perfect for you. 53K optimal scorch, with 400+ Heated DPS on a ship that goes 4K/s+ Heated, is really powerful when flown correctly. Here is some of my footage of a Nomen in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEPpB9MJro Near the end is some Nomen footage.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1627	Posted - 2013.11.07 02:36:00 - [6] - Quote Chessur wrote: Enochx Kaine wrote: I was beginning to think that the Harb might be **** for pvp. Like I said, I am still fairly new and I haven't really gotten into any pvp yet because when your best ship is a dessie, there really isn't much of a spot for you in fleets lol. Even now that I am getting my cruiser and battlecruiser skills pretty advanced, I still haven't done more than a POS bash here or there. But my skills are finally starting to pan out and I am building up a small personal fleet so that I can pvp in fleets and not have to worry when I blow up four ships in 20 mins. But I have to base how my ship will react in pvp based on how it flies while ratting, And I am coming to the conclusion that my style seems to favor the fast aggressive ships. THe Harb and the Mallar are pretty sweet and if your skills are up to par, then I am sure that their tank will hold with no problem. But since I only have about 3.5 to 4 million skill points so far, I think it would be wiser for me to speed tank as much as possible. But I digress....Appreciate the responses. Never compare PvE performance to PvP. A Navy omen will give you amazing performance in small gang / fleet. It has excellent performance. If you like fast agressive ships, a Nano Omen or Shield omen are perfect for you. 53K optimal scorch, with 400+ Heated DPS on a ship that goes 4K/s+ Heated, is really powerful when flown correctly. Here is some of my footage of a Nomen in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEPpB9MJro Near the end is some Nomen footage. Your overview is on the wrong side /o\ cannot comprehend! Also i generally think that both the omen and navy omen are massively overrated ships.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 645	Posted - 2013.11.07 09:20:00 - [7] - Quote Enochx Kaine wrote: I was beginning to think that the Harb might be **** for pvp. Like I said, I am still fairly new and I haven't really gotten into any pvp yet because when your best ship is a dessie, there really isn't much of a spot for you in fleets lol. Even now that I am getting my cruiser and battlecruiser skills pretty advanced, I still haven't done more than a POS bash here or there. But my skills are finally starting to pan out and I am building up a small personal fleet so that I can pvp in fleets and not have to worry when I blow up four ships in 20 mins. But I have to base how my ship will react in pvp based on how it flies while ratting, And I am coming to the conclusion that my style seems to favor the fast aggressive ships. THe Harb and the Mallar are pretty sweet and if your skills are up to par, then I am sure that their tank will hold with no problem. But since I only have about 3.5 to 4 million skill points so far, I think it would be wiser for me to speed tank as much as possible. But I digress....Appreciate the responses. You can do far far more PVP in a dessie than in a BC. Anyone that says you the opposite has no clue. Dessies and frigates only problem is tha thty cannot be agressors in low sec outside faction warfare because of gate guns. BUt get into faction warfare or 0.0 and dessies and frigates work just fine
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 201	Posted - 2013.11.07 15:30:00 - [8] - Quote Destroyers are horrible ships, and should not be flown in light of t1 cruisers. Frigaes on the other hand are poor so ships because your oly other targets are other frigs, which means you can only fight a small portion of leople you come across.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 655	Posted - 2013.11.07 17:47:00 - [9] - Quote Chessur wrote: Destroyers are horrible ships, and should not be flown in light of t1 cruisers. Frigaes on the other hand are poor so ships because your oly other targets are other frigs, which means you can only fight a small portion of leople you come across. then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4VSukE8lZs Destroyers can be really effective.... specially when you take their cost into account.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 202	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:27:00 - [10] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Chessur wrote: Destroyers are horrible ships, and should not be flown in light of t1 cruisers. Frigaes on the other hand are poor so ships because your oly other targets are other frigs, which means you can only fight a small portion of leople you come across. then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4VSukE8lZs Destroyers can be really effective.... specially when you take their cost into account. So a guy is asking about a nice small gang / solo ship. And to try and prove to me (and him) how good destroyers are, you post a video of 20+ destroyers blobbing BCs, and using 10MN ab algos killing fools on a station. Please. A gal militia recently took 10+ corms vs my typhoon, and then later in my cerb. Both times- I slaughtered them. Compared to a T1 cruiser, destroyers are really- really bad. They are slower than t1 cruisers They have less projection than t1 cruisers They have less DPS than t1 cruisers They have less tank than T1 cruisers Why the hell would you ever fly one seriously?

Zuria Rakel Collapsed Out Shadow Cartel 7	Posted - 2013.11.09 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote I've only seen dessies be somewhat effective in two roles. Killing T1 frigates as they come through FW plex gates, and 50+ man talwar blobs. As for the Harby... It's not good for solo pvp. At all. It is AT BEST "servicable" for solo PvE. As in, it works, but far better options exist. As a PvP gang ship, it performs decently well, but, again, there are better options. Brutix performs a similar role, except better. WIth logi support though, it can lay down some pain. Omen is nice, but, again, thorax does pretty much the same thing, except better.
GreenSeed 723	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:15:00 - [12] - Quote the omen is nice, the Nomen is goodly. save up some cash and pick one up, obviously don't risk it on pvp with low SP, but learning how to use your positioning to abuse the range bonus is a good skill to pick up. on pve the nomen can deal a lot of pain with the new beams, on pvp with pulse its the only ship that can make people drop point and run just because your lazors turned purple. :D cheap and scary. never used it on fleets, because my minnie fw corp is full of weirdos who refuse to fly slaver ships. :( harbis are cool in 5 - 10 man grps, if your corp is running low on money and wants to fill up the coffers you can destroy most NPC null anoms/sigs in a fleet with T1 support using the new lolbeams. and if you can probe your way into a C4 you can wipe the floor with the sleepers there. 2x TC harbis with locus rigs and beams are monsters, and if you get jumped, 2 volleys of faction Multifrecuency are more than enough to make those pesky 3 man pvp roams GTFO, or take losses on their shiny fleet. there's no way they trade a T3 or a pimped logi in exchange for 2 - 3 t1 BCs (did i mention beams are op?) never used the nharbi, but my eft warrioring says it doesn't justify its own price tag, not compared to the nbrutix. now, if you compare those two and their navy versions to the minnie ones, yes minnie gains speed, but you are also trading your lolbeams and scorch spewing pulse lazors for autocannons, forget artys, they have a very niche use. you will go from engaging people at the edge of OH point and reliably hitting them all the way down to getting into their scram range, to burning your MWD trying to get into scram/web range and hoping your ACs kill something before you die. and this counts for both canes and ruptures. yes, when a minnie has you under webs you are a flying brick, but so are they uder your webs, and by then you already had a good 20 seconds of damage on them and they are either approaching ASB reload or in peak shield recharge. time to swich to Multifrecuency and finish the job. just give a try to the nomen, if you cant use t2 pulse guns and fire Scorch, use meta with faction Infrared ammo, it deals far lower damage than scorch, but its just to test the range out. hitting stuff at 30km+ compared to the flimsy and unreliable AC damage when hitting stuff at falloff are two different worlds. and they open two different play stiles both on pvp and pve.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1643	Posted - 2013.11.10 12:27:00 - [13] - Quote Chessur wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Chessur wrote: Destroyers are horrible ships, and should not be flown in light of t1 cruisers. Frigaes on the other hand are poor so ships because your oly other targets are other frigs, which means you can only fight a small portion of leople you come across. then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4VSukE8lZs Destroyers can be really effective.... specially when you take their cost into account. So a guy is asking about a nice small gang / solo ship. And to try and prove to me (and him) how good destroyers are, you post a video of 20+ destroyers blobbing BCs, and using 10MN ab algos, that is linked, with HG snakes in a fleet killing fools on a station. that is the best you've got? Please. A gal militia recently took 10+ corms vs my typhoon, and then later in my cerb. Both times- I slaughtered them. Compared to a T1 cruiser, destroyers are really- really bad. They are slower than t1 cruisers They have less projection than t1 cruisers They have less DPS than t1 cruisers They have less tank than T1 cruisers Why the hell would you ever fly one seriously? Aside from the speed thing all of those arguements stand for cruiser > BC and BC > bs.... You have pvped enough to know that eve pvp is all about what you're intending to do. Yes a rlml caracal is better than any destroyer in any way shape or form, its basically a gigantic corax thats also faster. But getting a fight in a dessie is easier.. It basically just comes down to that. At least to me, getting a fight is more important than having absolute superiority.
Heather Cole Bio-Tech Research 2	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:45:00 - [14] - Quote Yeah, it is indeed possible that your Omen puts out similar/better performance to your Harbi when ratting. As others have said, Harbi is average at best, and the Omen is pretty good (though this seems to be up for debate) There's another advantage to ratting in your Omen though. You're harder to pin down, and if you do get caught, welp, you lost a 30mil cruiser. So what. I used to rat in a Tristan when I lived in Low, it barely ever got caught and it sig tanked the rats like a boss. I can be found here: anothereveblog.tumblr.com Alternatively I can be found decloaking 15K to your aft. Bombs away!
Elise Delacroix Stillwater Corporation 0	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:53:00 - [15] - Quote Chessur wrote: Never compare PvE performance to PvP. A Navy omen will give you amazing performance in small gang / fleet. It has excellent performance. If you like fast agressive ships, a Nano Omen or Shield omen are perfect for you. 53K optimal scorch, with 400+ Heated DPS on a ship that goes 4K/s+ Heated, is really powerful when flown correctly. Here is some of my footage of a Nomen in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEPpB9MJro Near the end is some Nomen footage. Out of curiosity, how are you getting that kind of optimal range with scorch? I've been playing with the fits for a while but I'm not achieving that kind of range. Cheers.
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 341	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:07:00 - [16] - Quote Im pretty sure he is reffering either to a Shield tanked Navy Omen or a shield Zealot, as the Omen cannot achieve that kind of range with pulse.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 256	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:52:00 - [17] - Quote Shield Nomen http://i.imgur.com/Afilniv.jpg Armor Nomen http://i.imgur.com/xPI2QlF.jpg Shield Omen http://i.imgur.com/CCyDzc7.jpg Armor Omen http://i.imgur.com/IWLMiS6.jpg
Elise Delacroix Stillwater Corporation 0	Posted - 2013.11.14 09:17:00 - [18] - Quote Thanks Chessur. With the coming changes to the RLML I'll probably end up reverting back to the Omen... that's some impressive damage projection in those fits.


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