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Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
   |
Posted - 2011.11.03 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mining 2.0 (Fun for solo and fleets!)
You know it. I know it. CCP probably knows it. Mining is boring. NEWS FLASH! FULL STORY AT 11. But seriously, this needs to change. If Eve is to evolve with the rest of the MMORPG market it canGÇÖt have the backbone of the economy come with an GÇ£AFKing RequiredGÇ¥ sticker.
This isnGÇÖt another empty demand to go fix a problem without offering ideas for a solution. Actually, if you were to scroll down a bit you might find that my solution is quite largeGǪ ladies. Its length is due to the fact that IGÇÖve restructured most everything us miners have grown to accept. What have we accepted? Boredom and tedium. What have I replaced it with? Interactivity and teamwork. Bam! My cards are on the table. Now itGÇÖs time to read GÇÿem (Weeping would be weird though).
I.WhatGÇÖs Changed?
Everything has changed. EVERYTHING! Well, I suppose not everything. But all of the original functionality of every piece of mining equipment has been redesigned. Every skill, ship, and piece of equipment still exist and are all still very useful. IGÇÖve even added some new ship mods.
DonGÇÖt fret though! While this will change how mining works, mining AFK is still possible. These changes only apply to mining barges/ exhumers using strip miner class lasers. Regular mining lasers will still work the same, boring, way that youGÇÖre used to.
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Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
II.Target Locked: Literally
In real life, shooting lasers at any free floating object in space will cause it to move. This is a problem for miners because precision cutting is much harder on moving targets. On top of this asteroids arenGÇÖt the most stable of stellar bodies. Lopping off chunks of rock with those super heated lasers will no doubt cause the whole thing to fall apartGǪ violently.
Thankfully we have the technology to provide structural stability to asteroids as we mine out their delicious insides. Mining drones, along with their normal mining equipment, have been equipped with a unique type of inverted shield emitter that let things pass into it but not out. This shield also hold the asteroid in place and stops it from rotating. This allows miners to mine without having the asteroid pushed away or explode in their face. There is a time limit though. Each drone can only maintain this field for a limited amount of time. Drones are also locked into maintaining the field until it dissipates and cannot help you pull ore. The more drone that are devoted to the stability field the longer they can sustain it. Multiple miners can add drones to the field to further increase the field timer. The longer the better because once the field dissipates the asteroid is destroyed, just not violently.
Not all your drones have to be devoted to the stability field. They are, after all, equipped with a mini strip miner along with one of each of the new types of strip miners (more on the new types later). A single drone operating a stability field will grant the base 5 minutes of mining time. Any more will add just a few extra minutes each. Drones can pull a lot more ore now if assigned to mine. A single tech 1 drone would pull roughly 1/3 of a strip miner 1. If you know you can afford it you have the option of having some of your drones help you pull minerals or perform other necessary tasks (to be revealed below).
Using drone(s) to form a stability field also claims the asteroid for yourself or your fleet as only one field can be active at once. First come, first serve. Although, you could also just blow up the drones. Better yet, just blow up the miners. |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 15:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
III.Mystery Roids
Asteroid no longer contain a pure type of ore. They are now a mixed bag of common and rare ores. That isnGÇÖt to say that all asteroids contain all types of ore. They donGÇÖt. TheyGÇÖll only contain about 3-5 different kinds one of them always being veldspar. All asteroids are actually made of mostly veldspar with delicious chunks of rarer ore mixed in. To find out exactly what kind of ore an asteroid contains you must scan it with a survey scanner.
For those miners who use battleships with 8 regular mining lasers youGÇÖll pull random amounts of the 3-5 different kinds of ore.
IV.Roids are like onionsGǪ
Why is this timer important? Because asteroids have layers! Why are layers important? Because most of the rare ore is at the center! How do we get to the center? Keep reading!
Once you send your drones to produce a stability field you have the option to look at the asteroid from a new perspective. Now introducing: ROID MODE! In Roid Mode your camera zooms into the asteroid, similar to using the GÇ£look atGÇ¥ feature, and youGÇÖre presented with a myriad of options.
The most exciting option is the ability to select exactly where you want your lasers to slice off rock. Being able to select where you mine is important because ore is not distributed equally along the surface. If you want to get the best yield you need to know where all that shiny is hiding. To do that you need to fit one of the new high slot modules on your ship: an Astrogeologic Scanner! This module, when cycled, gives you a snap shot of the current ore distribution and density on the surface of the asteroid.
Now that you know where to focus your strip miners you can target specific areas to mine out the best parts. DonGÇÖt worry if you need to mine the far side of an asteroid. The stability field produced your drones have special reflective properties that bounce the laser wherever it need to be. Also, there is no longer a need to wait on those long cycle timers anymore! Strip miner technology has improved to allow for much shorter cycles (roughly 10 seconds). The amount of ore you get is no longer based on module or skills but by the density of the area being mined.
So youGÇÖre mining away at that concentrated spot on an asteroid when you notice on your Roid Mode UI that the little bar titled GÇ£Layer 1 structureGÇ¥ is slowly dropping after each strip miner cycle. You might also notice that your Astrogeologic Scanner is showing small darken blemishes that seem to increase in size on the once pristine surface of your target asteroid. If you kept mining and thought the blemishes were the result of faulty equipment you might get that asteroid structure bar to reach zero and break into the next, more juicy, layer of the asteroid. A more likely scenario is that the blemishes continue to grow and eventually cause the asteroid to explode in protest of your lasers despite your droneGÇÖs stability field.
Those dark blemishes are called fractures. Fractures, if ignored and let grow to a certain size, will start giving off a random chance for the asteroid to explode. The larger they get the higher the chance for an explosion to occur. They have a chance of forming and growing whenever strip miners are actively pulling ore. How do we get rid of them? With a another new high slot module: the Asteroid Repairer! This module, when focused on a fracture and cycled, will fire a super heated beam that will fuse the rock back into a solid state which reduces the size of the fracture. Given enough cycles the fracture will even disappear entirely.
For miners who want to get to the center layers as quickly as possible focusing all of your strip miners on a single point on the asteroid will deplete the layer structure exponentially faster than if the strip miners were spread out along the surface. This technique creates considerable stress on the asteroid which causes fractures to form and expand much quicker than usual. |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 15:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
V.Ka-BOOM!
Ok, so you know you want to avoid asteroid explosions. But letGÇÖs get some reasons why. For one thing all the ore that youGÇÖve mined in an asteroid is STORED in that asteroid. The stability field from the drones prevents the ore from being pulled into your cargo hold until the field dissipates or someone (in an Orca) equipped with a ORE Tractor Beam yanks it out. If an asteroid explodes all the ore that was stored in the asteroid is lost.
Asteroid explosions are also extremely damaging to ships. Anything nearby will be dealt considerable damage depending of course on the size of the asteroid doing the exploding. A tiny roid might take off take off a few points of shields if you happen to be close enough. A large roid might insta-pop anything small enough if they were anywhere near it. Under normal circumstances this would always be a bad thing. However, given the constant threat of pirates (NPC or otherwise) pose to miners any weapon, no matter how hilarious, is useful for self defense. This tactic is only effective in low or null sec space since asteroids in high sec space are too small to pose a serious threat.
How do you get an asteroid to explode quickly? Well, you could setup a stability field and mine until a fracture grew large enough to go boom. This isnGÇÖt recommended though. For on demand explosion simply target an asteroid and fire your strip miners at it. Remember how unstable those asteroids are without that stability field? ThatGÇÖs right, ka-BOOOOOOOM!
Using asteroids as weapons, while very effective, also requires substantial timing and skill. Knowing where you enemy is, where heGÇÖs going, whatGÇÖs next to him is, and most importantly, where YOU are is essential to ensure heGÇÖs destroyed and not BOTH of you. ItGÇÖs also helpful to be in a tactical position prior to being engaged since no pirate worth his skull and crossbones will fly his ship near a giant latent bomb if he doesnGÇÖt have to.
Asteroid demolition will always be a hazardous past-time but bringing the right equipment can seriously reduce the risk. All tech II mining vessels are equipped with special shields which are designed to significantly reduce the damage received from asteroid explosions. Shield and armor mods exist for miners who want that extra protection or for pirates who know that cornered prey can bite back. |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
(Reserved) |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 15:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
(Reserved just in case) |
Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces
8
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Interesting concept. I don't like the obligation to use drones to stabilize an asteroid. In my opinion, Asteroid stabilizing should be a mid slot that comes in different sizes. That would make it easier to supervise.
So if I understood correctly, a miner with strip miners first moves next to the asteroid. Locks it down with the stabilizer. It opens a new UI interface where he can direct the strip miners to extract the desired minerals of the first layer. I imagine this is a color coded interface similar to PI ressource extraction. As the asteroid is mined, we gain access to deeper layers of the asteroid, but it also cause the asteroid to become unstable. When the stability field finishes its cycle, there's a chance of the asteroid exploding. To solve this problem, it's possible to use a melding laser to stabilize the asteroid structure. It's only once the stability field is offline that ore can be removed from the asteroid.
It seems like a decent idea.
I have a question though,
what would become of the skills? What skill would you add and remove? |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 16:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tahna Rouspel wrote:Interesting concept. I don't like the obligation to use drones to stabilize an asteroid. In my opinion, Asteroid stabilizing should be a mid slot that comes in different sizes. That would make it easier to supervise.
So if I understood correctly, a miner with strip miners first moves next to the asteroid. Locks it down with the stabilizer. It opens a new UI interface where he can direct the strip miners to extract the desired minerals of the first layer. I imagine this is a color coded interface similar to PI ressource extraction. As the asteroid is mined, we gain access to deeper layers of the asteroid, but it also cause the asteroid to become unstable. When the stability field finishes its cycle, there's a chance of the asteroid exploding. To solve this problem, it's possible to use a melding laser to stabilize the asteroid structure. It's only once the stability field is offline that ore can be removed from the asteroid.
It seems like a decent idea.
I have a question though,
what would become of the skills? What skill would you add and remove?
The stability field acts as a hard time limit for mining an asteroid. You're always racing against time (unless you have a rorqual on field) to get to the center layers as fast as possible. Once it's on, it's on. When it ends the asteroid breaks apart gently allowing all the mined ore you built up inside it to be looted.
The rate of how quickly a layer is depleted depends on each strip miner cycle. Each layer has a predetermined number of cycles that must be pulled for it to break off to reveal the next layer. This number is the layer structure HP. If strip miners are focused on a single spot (told to mine at the same position at once) the layer HP drops exponentially (2 miners on one spot might take off 3 HP instead of 2).
Fractures are the only real threat a miner has to worry about in terms of explosions. Fractures form and grow according to how many cycles are completed. The more cycles that are complete the quicker fractures form. Focusing beams on a single location will of course cause fractures to form even quicker. If these fractures are not kept in check by asteroid repairer then the asteroid WILL explode.
As for skills. All of them are kept. All of them are useful. They're simply redesigned.
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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
18
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Still reading but multi boxing might come up, just wanted to add that and will continue after im done |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 17:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Still reading but multi boxing might come up, just wanted to add that and will continue after im done
I stopped reading at using roids as weapons.
What I did read smacked of turning mining into a mini game within eve. No multi box miner will be able to do that, I would hope CCP would agree cause last thing they want is those with a number of account letting them go becaues they can no long manage running them all because some idiot decided rocks could blow up.
Better thing for mining would be adding a fourth high, and explain to people not every hulk they see is an afk pilot or a bot.
Some things in life ARE BORING, thats just how life is. Better to reward the people that stick at it reguardless instead of forcing some crappy mini game onto everyone so the solo guys stop bitching.
Turning all hulks into armor tanking ships would be a nice idea. That way miners are made to choose between a hard to gank low yield small space set up. Or a no tank big yield set up. The fourth high is because miners are underpaid and have put up with enough crap from pvp'ers about bots and afk'ing while earning much less for way to long.
I'm sure we can agree to disagree and I respect your opinion. However, I would like to point out a few things.
This idea, by no means, hinges on asteroid exploding. That part can easily be added or removed according to how CCP feels about it. Allowing fractures to get out of control during mining could just cause the asteroid to pop harmlessly but taking all your ore along with it. I just wanted to get the idea out there. I believe it would add for some very interesting encounters in belts.
As far as multiboxing goes I know where you're coming from. I myself am a multiboxer (multiboxing miner at that) and a part of me would be sad to see this implemented. On the other hand, you mentioning "Some things in life ARE BORING, that's just how life is." strikes true on a simple, fundamental fact.
Eve is a game. Games are a source of entertainment. Entertainment is practically the antonym of boredom.
Mining has survived as a type of screen saver meant to be occasionally poke at by people doing other things in game or even out of game. It is high time that this area of the game be brought up to basic standards of entertainment.
Again, to reiterate, this opinion is mine, not yours. I don't want any of this to sound like your opinion is invalid. I can even understand your concerns with this and perhaps echo some of them. I still firmly believe that mining needs to be more interactive. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
39
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 17:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Barten Lancaster wrote:Mining 2.0 (Fun for solo and fleets!)
You know it. I know it. CCP probably knows it. Mining is boring. NEWS FLASH! FULL STORY AT 11. But seriously, this needs to change. If Eve is to evolve with the rest of the MMORPG market it canGÇÖt have the backbone of the economy come with an GÇ£AFKing RequiredGÇ¥ sticker. .
I could also argue that mission running is boring. or PI, or ratting... or anything that you do repititiously for money. Making mining more time consuming or more cumbersome does not end the bordom. It does however reduce the yield.. and make non botters jobs harder.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 17:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Barten Lancaster wrote:Mining 2.0 (Fun for solo and fleets!)
You know it. I know it. CCP probably knows it. Mining is boring. NEWS FLASH! FULL STORY AT 11. But seriously, this needs to change. If Eve is to evolve with the rest of the MMORPG market it canGÇÖt have the backbone of the economy come with an GÇ£AFKing RequiredGÇ¥ sticker. . I could also argue that mission running is boring. or PI, or ratting... or anything that you do repititiously for money. Making mining more time consuming or more cumbersome does not end the bordom. It does however reduce the yield.. and make non botters jobs harder.
This new type of mining would be a lot more involved. It would also be a race against the watch to dig as deep as possible before the asteroid collapsed. I'm certain that it would be leagues better than the current mining system. |
Aesiron
Squadron 1
3
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Posted - 2011.11.03 18:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Barten Lancaster wrote:The Short Version
1. A miner in a Covetor warps to an asteroid belt.
2. The miner deploys one or all of his drones to create a stability field around an asteroid.
3. The miner enters Roid Mode and turns on his scanner to get a picture of where ore is the most dense.
4. He activates his strip miners and begins pulling ore.
5. After a few cycles his scanner reveals that a fracture has formed. The miner deploys either a drone not assigned to the stability field or activates an Asteroid Repair module to avoid asteroid explosions.
6. After a while enough cycles have been completed to sheer off the first layer of the asteroid.
7. The miner repeats the above processes as fast as possible to try to get through as many layers as possible.
8. The stability field timer finally ends and the asteroid harmless breaks up revealing all of the ore collected.
Most of these are just pure physics and animations that make mining have more to it but in a boring way. The rest are traditional module suggestions. |
Gregnak
Noble Core
0
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 |
Dusty Meg
Redbull Air Race Inc
4
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
These sort of ideas have been rolled over and over by many people. The problem is they wont work. CCP will not implement something that will intentionatly loose them accounts. If you make it so the player has to have more attention then multiboxers will shut down accounts. I myself have been multibox mining for the past 2 years and like the mining mechanincs as is.
People have said that mining is boreing, I find it a way of interacting my my corp mates. When I started eve 2 years ago I was a miner and came into the game wanting to be a miner, this type of game I enjoy. I would also not now be flying with the same group of guys after many corp and alliance changes without mining. The current mining mechanics allowed me to chat with these people and become friends and make a stronger bond.
And the bot aspect is rubbish, all itll do is kill off some of the simpler ones but the more advanced bots will adapt and then what people are going to want the mechanics changed again.
And finally why is mining any more boreing then say mission running or ratting, cause I have tried them all. But I have always gone back to mining as it allows me to relax while playing a game, which is why I log into eve and why I play games to relax. |
Barten Lancaster
Immortalis Silens
Intrepid Crossing
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 20:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
I felt the introduction to this suggestion didn't explain enough of the philosophy behind it. I've altered it in the hopes of greater understanding. |
Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 15:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dusty Meg wrote:These sort of ideas have been rolled over and over by many people. The problem is they wont work. CCP will not implement something that will intentionatly loose them accounts. If you make it so the player has to have more attention then multiboxers will shut down accounts. I myself have been multibox mining for the past 2 years and like the mining mechanincs as is.
People have said that mining is boreing, I find it a way of interacting my my corp mates. When I started eve 2 years ago I was a miner and came into the game wanting to be a miner, this type of game I enjoy. I would also not now be flying with the same group of guys after many corp and alliance changes without mining. The current mining mechanics allowed me to chat with these people and become friends and make a stronger bond.
And the bot aspect is rubbish, all itll do is kill off some of the simpler ones but the more advanced bots will adapt and then what people are going to want the mechanics changed again.
And finally why is mining any more boreing then say mission running or ratting, cause I have tried them all. But I have always gone back to mining as it allows me to relax while playing a game, which is why I log into eve and why I play games to relax.
The reason why it's so relaxing is because you're barely doing anything while mining. I occasionally mine, but when I do, I bring a book for reading. While earning isk while reading is an appealing idea, I also feel like mining should be more interactive. That's the core difference between missions and mining. Missions are a lot more interactive. You need to think and imput a lot more actions.
Meanwhile, for mining, you're simply standing on a "make money" spot in space and earning isk. It's just too simple to enjoy by itself. |
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