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Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:16:00 - [1] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 17/08/2006 02:17:30 Yes at first glance a PDU might seem better than a DCU. The unstacked 11.5 extra resist to everything add an equivalent of roughly 13% hitpoints with no boost to shield recharge rate, which is slightly worse than what a PDU-II does for your passive tank. And the PDU also boosts your cap. But if you look a bit further than this, the extra resistance also affects every hitpoint gained from passive tank and more importantly from shield boosting. So the more you need to boost your shields, the more useful the DCU becomes over the PDU which does absolutely nothing for your boosted HP. Add to that the life-saving structure resists, and the DCU wins clearly. At least for me. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.08.17 13:07:00 - [2] Originally by: Navy SWO Edited by: Navy SWO on 17/08/2006 12:50:30 Edited by: Navy SWO on 17/08/2006 12:48:02 I run level 4s in this: 6x Cruise Launcher II 1x Small Tractor Beam I 1x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I 1x XL C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 1x Heavy F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost 1x Large Shield Extender II 2x Shield Hardener II (based on mission enemy) 1x F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines 2x Ballistic Control System II 2x Power Diagnostic System II 1x Gravimetric Backup Array II With my skills I have 295 MW and 13 CPU remaining. Also, 7 medium T2 drones based on the mission enemy (either Vespa or Infiltrator usually). Normal Level 4 mission load out is 4x 800 cap boosters loaded and another 8 in cargo, plus 1200 Prescision and 400 Fury cruise missiles, also the type is based on the threat. Comments? Cheers That is exactly the kind of setup that lets people run lvl4s in different ship faster than in that Raven... Train and use T2 siege, theyre much better for lvl4 missions than T2 cruise, especially if you use target painters. Ditch the Tractor Beam and use a loot ship instead to gain one more nos. Get rid of sensor booster and the godawful shield extender which has no place whatsoever on a proper PvE fitted Battleship. Add hardeners/painters instead. ISK permitting, you can replace the shield booster for a gist large or even xlarge one and get rid of the cap injector to fit another hardener or painter. Get rid of the grav backup and put in a damage control. If fitting permits, replace one PDU with a 3rd BCU for more damage on easier missions. Voila, now you got a good Raven rather than a below average one. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.08.18 11:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Sharei Theradine Edited by: Sharei Theradine on 18/08/2006 08:16:30 Hello. I'm looking into starting a few level 4's in Gallente space... and, happened to notice this topic. And yes... I'm flying a Raven. >.> I've noticed alot of tech 2 builds, is this really necessary for a level 4, or can it be done with some tech 1 stuff? My current configuration is: High ------------------------------------- 6x Cruise Missile I's 2x Nos (One diminishing, one regular) Medium ------------------------------------- 100mwn AB 2 Large shield booster I Invulnerability Field II F-90 Sensor Booster Ionic Field Accelerator I Tech 2 large shield extender Low ------------------------------------- Internal Force Field Array I 2x PDS 2x BCS I Is this good enough to start level 4's, or should I bide my time (or grab a buddy >.>) PS: Oops, forgot to add stuff on my skills! 4.4mil. Most of my missile skills are at level 3... shield skills at level 4, as well as the energy systems operation skill. Energy management is... kinda low though. >.> At level 2. My drones are suffering as well, at level 4 still (but being trained to level 5 as I post) -Sharei Are you a troll? You cannot be serious with that fitting? Read a few posts above about some of the more glaring errors, but really... What drives people to fit extenders, sensor boosters and ABs onto a mission Raven? The only explanation short of brain malfunction I have is that it is PvPers who cannot adapt to proper mission fittings? --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Ramanujan Leandro is right also in pointing out that the large shield extender has no place here. Coming from a Ferox this was the first mod I put on a raven, but it is really all about your resistances, not about the size of your shields. Ferox! Haha stupid me... [slaps forehead] Of course, THAT is why new people fit extenders on a Raven so much Knowing that, it is not any more right, but at least somewhat understandable now. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:26:00 - [5] Sell the Typhoon, buy a Gist Booster. Even just a C-Type large one should carry you through all missions (It did for me anyway) without the hassle of a second ship, which in some missions causes stage aggro too. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:12:00 - [6] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 04/09/2006 14:12:25 Originally by: Demonique or is a decent setup and some common sense pretty much all you need? Thats pretty much it. The latter part is not taught much to kids anymore these days though it seems, so you get stupid people saying you cannot solo lvl4s, which is utter rubbish. (I guess the same kind of people fit repper and shield booster on the same ship, and put in RCUs to be able to stuff 425mm rails into the two extra highs on a Raven. Some setups on these forums almost make me cry.) I soloed lvl4s in a Tempest (which is a really bad mission ship) at 5-6 mil SP. You can solo most of them in a Raven even with just T1 fittings. T2 helps a lot though, and faction stuff turns the whole thing into a cakewalk. Just have a good fitting and research your enemies prior to doing a mission for the first time, and you will do well. Common sense 4tw. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.05 22:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Xaen Quickfit is showing that you could take out a Dread Pith Eradicator (BS) in 46 seconds with this fit(!). The 425s add a ton of DPS vs BS/BC, and you can use Med/light drones to take out frigates/cruisers easily. Comments/suggestions? Yes, you need the cap from NOS to sustain a tank in the harder L4s. Fitting PDS instead of BCUs is really not neccessary though once you got a gist booster. And quickfit does not take into account the NPCs tanking, which especially with cruise missiles will increase the time needed to kill them a whole lot. And Eradicator are relaly pathetic BBs. Try killing three Usurpers with that setup... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.06 10:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Telo Xeri Hmm what to use arba siege or cruise t2 xl shield t2 or large shield t2?? None of the above. Siege T2 and (depending on wallet) Large or XLarge Gist :P --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:09:00 - [9] Originally by: DisC Leeroy From this thread about half say cruise and half say torps... Which is better for level 4's? or is it really just a matter of personal preference? Imho it is more a matter of your fitting. If you have a great (and expensive) tank with Gist XL booster, 2 Dread Invuls and low-grade crystal implants (That tanks most L4s easily, one additional specific hardener tanks ALL of them short of EA 5/5, might do even that but I throw in a boost amp as sa***uard there as finding out you can't tank it will cost you the mission since you usually cannot warp back in without getting wtfpwned by the stuff that came in while you were gone, and there are mainly BS enemies anyway), you can afford to devote two or even three midslots to target painters, which will make your Javelin torps pwn even the small ships some 40% faster than cruise missiles. If your tank requires 5 or even all 6 of your medslots, you are probably better off with high-skill T1 cruise missiles fired from T2 or faction launchers. As for T1 torps, they are useful for some missions that have many BSes with low defender rates. Other than that, I found them mostly useless since defenders shoot them down a lot and their damage against smaller targets isn't up to par even with painters. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:56:00 - [10] Originally by: jyrgen jonson I have now invested in a gist B type amplifier, do i really need to get a gist B type xl booster too? Because they are friggin expensive. Any good faction boosters who doesnt cost 700m out there? I am afraid you wasted a lot of money there. The Gist XL Booster is what makes a good tank. The boost amp is just the most overrated and overpriced module around which actually gives less benefit than a T2 invul field even with the first stacking penalty on it Simple Math: Gist B boost amp = 37.5% additional HP to every shield boost, nothing else. T2 Invul with 2nd stacking penalty: 26.1% less damage taken, meaning effectively 100/0.739-100 = 35.32 additional HP to both the boosted, the passively recharged and the already existing HP. That effect is even more profound when facing rats doing less diverse damage so you can use hardeners. In essence: Hardeners >>> Boost amps. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler

Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.05 23:39:00 - [11] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 05/10/2006 23:43:00 My example only works when there is none or the first stacking penalty applied. (Which is the case for most tanks I see). Of course when the stacking penalty gets too big (as in your example) the boost amp will win, but for most tanks it is just superfluous. (In the case of 61.75% hardeners they win even with the 2nd stacking penalty though). In your example, the tank is fine without either SBA or additional invul and you would help yourself much more with a painter. As far as PvE goes, the only mission that I use an amp in is Enemies abound 5/5, all others can be tanked fine with just hardening. Amps are not totally worthless, far from that, but they are extremely overrated. A nice sa***uard, but by no means an integral part of a good tank. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.05 23:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Alexander Knott This hasn't been my experience. With 1 painter fitted, my torps easily 2-volley all battlecruisers. Cruisers take 3, maybe 4 volleys at the high end, and 1-volley at the low end. I don't bother shooting frigates with my torps, instead if I have time I paint the frigates for my drones, otherwise they're on their own. With all the talk about using t1 cruise missiles from t2 launchers, I tried cruise missiles out again. Battlecruisers would sometimes take 3 volleys because of defenders taking out just enough cruise missiles to leave them a sliver of life, even with 3 BCS fitted. Cruisers were not noticably faster than the torpedoes when you count in number of volleys. Of course, it was very nice to not have to bother with the painter or have the long wait for the missiles to impact. Still, all in all, I think I'm sticking with t1 torps from arbalest launchers for now. My experience has been that you only kill cruisers in 1 or 2 T1 torp volleys and one painter when they MWD towards you. Otherwise it takes at least 3. And either way the travel time of them is horrible and Battleships with good defender rates shoot them down tons. Of course my experience has been long ago because I went for T2 torps ASAP. I also have very little experience with cruise missiles (I found them very crappy when I first used them, albeit with low skills), their usefulness when having good skills and only 0 or 1 painter is just forum lore and sound theory for me. In my practical experience, Javelin torps with 2+ painters > all. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.11 10:31:00 - [13] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 11/10/2006 10:31:55 Originally by: Victoria Alnilam stuff Javelin torps would solve your problem with the defenders, but they are tough on your CPU and also require like two painters to also pwn cruisers. Both these issues are solved only by the stuff I am not supposed to mention, so not an option for you I guess. So yeah, a T1-T2 Raven will always have trouble with even remotely sustainable tanking and doing missions in efficient speed. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.07 13:29:00 - [14] What I consider the ultimate mission runner within reasonable isk value: CNR High: 5* Domi Siege (for CPU issues), 2* T2 Siege, 1 Corpum med nos Med: Gist B XL Shield Booster, 2* DG Invul, 1* Gist/Pith Specific Hard, 2* PWNAGE painter Low: 1 IFFA or DCU2, 1 DB/TS PDU, 3 DG BCU 3* Hydraulic bay thruster rigs Tanks everything, and pwns very very fast. You just can't go afk since you have to manage your tank. Never use siege in L4s without painters though, you will do better with cruise then. And basically this means never use Siege in L4s without a Gist XL booster lol. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:54:00 - [15] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/02/2007 13:54:02 Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/02/2007 13:52:06 Originally by: Stocktons [stuff and horribly inefficient fitting] So to come back on my question: why do you need a heavy nos on your mission raven? Because most professional runners fit not to simply be able to run the missions, but to run them as fast as possible. Which means at least two, better yet 3 BCUs in the lowslots, which means you will need the NOS to supply cap to a non-faction XL booster. Your fitting with only 6 cruise and no damage mods is horrible on the efficiency side. Plus what else to fit in those slots, fitting salvager and tractor beam like you do is also terribly inefficient, you either don't loot/salvage at all or come back in a ship specifically fitted for that. And lastly, even with 5 PDUs I doubt your tank will last you through the really hard missions without a cap injector, especially since your lack of DPS makes the reduction of incoming damage way too slow. If you really ran missions for 3 months with that setup, you have been doing something very wrong. (Unless you run like one per week or so lol). --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.17 12:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Ohoboho Where i can buy this gist x-type stuff? Cuz realy t1 is not good for lvl 4`s. In contracts in Jita... And don't be hell bent on X-Type, B-Type is often almost as good and much much cheaper. X-Type is pure luxury, bordering decadence. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 08:04:00 - [17] If you really think that with just one BCU and no target painters you 'breeze' through missions, I am afraid you don't know what breezing through them really is Of course, you kinda need a Ferrari (= Gist XL Booster and CNR) to really fit for record mission running, and your fitting is more like a Fiat Panda... Still, without a painter you probably take longer on most missions with a torp setup than with a cruise setup. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 16/05/2007 14:10:54 Originally by: stoicfaux Torpedos do seem to be faster than cruise missiles. However, you have to micromanage torps due to their slow speed. I normally have 2-3 torp salvos in flight, so if you don't retarget them, you wind up with several salvos of wasted overkill. Killing a battleship normally about 8 torp salvos versus 12 of cruise. Battlecruisers require two torp salvos versus three for cruise. The target painter does boost damage against Domi and Megathron NPC battleships which have a 360m sig radius. High: 6x Arbalest Seige 1x Drone Link Augmentor (+20km to drone range) 1x Unused due to lack of CPU Mid: 4x Hardeners II, 1x Target Painter II, 1x Large Shield Booster II Low: 2x BCS, 3x Beta Ractor Control: Capacitor Flux I Rigs: 3 x Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones: 7x Vespa II (although I really should carry 5 x Med II and 5 x Light II. Light drones really tear up frigates.) Does all level 4 missions. Permaboosts the LSBII which makes things a lot easier. The drone range extender is nice since drones can add up to 29% to my DPS. The Beta Cap Flux module provides a 19.7% cap recharge boost and allows me to permaboost the LSBII. I used to use 3xPDS II. The beta modules are much cheaper than tech IIs for only a 2% loss in efficiency. Missile velocity rigs are the torp users friend. Plus my torps kill battleships in 3-5 volleys '(maybe 6 on the top end ones, not sure), but I use a CNR and 3 BCUs, 2 of them DG ones. Also kills BCs in one volley, which is a huge factor in ganking missions quicker. Torp setup is definitely faster, but requires a lot more/better faction gadgets. - Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in turret
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.14 22:50:00 - [19] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 14/06/2007 22:49:49 Pff dual account mission running is lame :P Real men solo them! (And I DO have two accounts too... Just too bad my alt is in lowsec for PvP or 0.0 for exploration.) It would also defeat like half my game purpose, which is pimping my solo lvl4 rides ever more. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Draxnil With that setup, along with Weapons Upgrades V and Electronics V, the Raven sits at exactly 875/875 available CPU usage. How are you guys fitting NOS's and other crap on top of those things? Faction modules use a lot less CPU than T2 or even T1. Quickfit is your best friend in determining what you need. Thanks SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in turret

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