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SkyLeach of CME - Don't condem TTI for something your own corp is guilty of.

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vf142rex	Posted - 2003.09.01 22:36:00 - [1] Dear SkyLeach, I have read your anti-TTI posts over the course of the FA vs. TTI + VA conflict. You have essentially said the same thing a number of times, so I will quote one example. "From early on it was speculated that TTI hire and use pirates to carry out its bidding, usually to hamper the growth of other corporations in game. Now this speculation is being thrust out into the light for everyone to see and being proven as fact not rumor." Early on in the game, 2-3 weeks after release, I was in a corp called Tachivana Technologies routed in Heimatar (mainly around Oremmulf). We didn't have the most members (~15), but it was a good bunch, most of whom had been there since Beta. A lot of the corp's income came from ship production and sales. After being robbed of our first cruiser, which was a huge thing at that point in the game, we had finally built up to a second cruiser. This was probably 4 weeks after the game went live. CME operating in minmatar space apparently disliked competition in the ship building industry. I believe it was Tristan who had some words with our CEO. It was a threat along the lines of "get out of the industry or else". CME had 100+ members at that point, had a cruiser bp and a number of cruisers flying around, and could obviously wipe the floor with our 15 member group. The thought of competing with CME in volume of ships produced and sold was ridiculus. Our CEO had our pride and refused the demand. Shortly after, a CME member became "disguisted" with their tactics and applied to Tachivana for membership. She was accepted, and immediatly set out to "help" us. She went up a mining operation, where she would use our only cruiser (believe it was ours) to defend. I was at work while this was going down. She cleared the belt and had them warp in. She began attacking our miners, and our hauler. When they figured out what was going on and warped out, they were met at the gates by none other than additional CME cruiser support AND The Reverend AND Lord Zap. The majority of our operation was lost. CME effectively wiped the floor with a 15 member peaceful corporation, who could bairly afford a cruiser. I believe that the actions of CME are condemned by your own words. I have no problem with you posting your complaints about TTI. I have not and will not reply to your posts, because I have no knowledge on the matter. What I have posted here is what I know. What I know is that for your posts to hold water with people who know the truth behind CME's operations (maybe just in the past, who knows?), you need to acknowledge and fix what was broken.
Chise	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:06:00 - [2] I'm sorry vf142rex, but you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. And if your going to lie, than don't be so obvious about it. We had only 30-40 members back than (alot of which were alts) and still do not even have 100... We were never allied with moo and infact, at this same time, started to try and organize a group of corps to all declare war and have all of us attack them at once... (We still have the stantionable action to declare war on moo) We also never told you to leave the region or to stop producing ships... We nicly asked for you to stop undercutting our prices... And the person who left our corp to join you did not steal any crusier from you, she already had a MOA... So please stop making up things and comparing us to TTI who betray there allies to support pirates. ------------------------------------ -Chise
Shadow Walker	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Shadow Walker on 01/09/2003 23:13:06 Um ya why are you even raising the dead to flame, and not only that but making up lies? Just b/c you have a grudge with us dosent give you the right to flame and make lies up about us. Get a life and quit flaming and lieing.
vf142rex	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:13:00 - [4] 30-40 members? I don't believe that number is accurate. Perhaps 100 was an overstatement, but the fact remains,,,CME had legitimate numbers over Tachivana. Reverend was not at Mo0 at that point, not sure about zap. Nicely asked doesn't involved threats. As far as undercutting, I was not involved in the sale of the items. So in your view,,,why did CME attack Tachivana in the first place?
Shadow Walker	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:20:00 - [5] Quote: 30-40 members? I don't believe that number is accurate. Perhaps 100 was an overstatement, but the fact remains,,,CME had legitimate numbers over Tachivana. Reverend was not at Mo0 at that point, not sure about zap. Nicely asked doesn't involved threats. As far as undercutting, I was not involved in the sale of the items.? ^Prime xample of your inaccuratness, get your facts straight son, And quit flamming as its just digging your ditch deeper and deeper....
vf142rex	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:27:00 - [6] I don't control how you percieve my post. The majority of the facts posted there are accurate, especially the main point; the fact that CME elisted the help of pirates to participate in a slaughter. I am truely sorry if I messed up a little here and there on a miniscule detail. It is not my intent to flame CME, if that is what you think. I have no problems with posts on issues about corporations enlisting the help of pirates. I only wish that CME come to terms with a point in time when you did. A generous gesture to a small corporation that you wronged would go very far.
pred ator	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:29:00 - [7] Edited by: pred ator on 01/09/2003 23:29:35 vf142rex wrote: why did CME attack Tachivana in the first place? ---------- dude your right, people can't attack people without first notfiying someone right? i mean the manual says, be whatever you want. looks like you wanted to undercut peoples prices. which happens in real life. and in real life you either then go outta business, or you act against those people undercutting you. i see no reason for your flame, it doesn't really matter what happened. its just how you played the game. and i'm guessing CME played better. because your the one flaming. and is all ANRGY about it. why don't you go take a break, watch some tv. and relax. its just a GAME. edited for spelling :(
Shadow Walker	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:31:00 - [8] if you didnt want to flame y did you even botehr posting it b/c thats what you did. Think twice b4 posting as your your faults in the post will make people think twice about what xactly u are trying to acheive.....and deeper and deeper
Chise	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:35:00 - [9] yes, that number is accurate cause tris was lazy and didn't raise the corp mangement skill to lvl5 for months :) And we still only have 72 members now. That is the highest we have had and alot of them are our own alts. I don't think we ever directly attacked you either and I know we never declared war. If we did attack you, it would have been due to you undercutting everyone in the region and selling under mineral value ruining the economy for the whole region. But we were never friends with rev and zap (before or after they joined moo) and we fought moo early on when most others were too scared. We also defeated the pirate corp 'xtinction' in beta and will never be allied with any pirates! -------------------------- Now you just said "The majority of the facts posted there are accurate, especially the main point; the fact that CME elisted the help of pirates to participate in a slaughter." I'm gonna assume that you weren't in a very high position in that corp and your ceo probably told lies to all of you cause nothing about us in your orginal post is accurate except that some idiot left our corp to join yours. ------------------------------------ -Chise
Shadow Walker	Posted - 2003.09.01 23:50:00 - [10] This Just In: Rex up there(Thread Starter) is in TTI:P. Everyone false alarm its just another post making TTI look like uncredible liers.
Asimov	Posted - 2003.09.02 01:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Asimov on 02/09/2003 01:11:45 Don't be so hasty Shadow Walker. This response from all you CME guys could be the result of you trying to keep all this under a tight lid. I for one believe him and I really wouldn't be surprised if CME did this sort of thing to other competitors quite often....
vf142rex	Posted - 2003.09.02 01:26:00 - [12] We talked ingame, this is no longer an issue for me. So, die thread.
Chise	Posted - 2003.09.02 02:13:00 - [13] What's wrong Asimov? You also too scared to wear your TTI tag on the forums!? Shadow and I proudly show everyone that we are in CME! I guess you know that your corp is crap though! ------------------------------------ -Chise
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 02:20:00 - [14] Chise, "I don't think we ever directly attacked you either and I know we never declared war." So you just attacked like pirates without declaring war? Like m0o podkillers or something? This is shocking. This is far worse then even having allies in Evolution a noted newbie podkilling company. Its bad enough your in bed with them but this is horrible. It appears they infiltrated this small company and set them up for a wipeout. This is totally unethical behavior. Instead of denying it happend CME seems to be content arguing about the semantics of how many pilots they had at the time? CME has no business being critical of anyone with podkilling antics like this. Shame on them!
Shadow Walker	Posted - 2003.09.02 02:50:00 - [15] wow, this is stuff from 3 months ago, let it rest, no were not podkilling pirates look at all our sec ratings. you people are just looking for things to get the attention off TTI cause they know there getting pounded with discovered cover-ups, we have nothing to hide at all quite making up fabel tales, were hard working men from a corp that is rightous and anti-pirate. we simply asked rex and his corp to quit under cutting our prices, they blew us off, so we attacked, its how this game works, we never hired Pirates we are straight foward people. -Shadow
Chise	Posted - 2003.09.02 02:54:00 - [16] High Priestess, 1) This does not concern you and you weren't there 2) I never even heard of your 4-person corp (probably all alts for TTI or someone else) 3) Don't twist my words around In fact, vf142rex was not even there at the time of this supposed attack (which was 3 months ago and if it was true they would have said something about it long ago) Also, IF we did attack them, we wouldn't pod them. We only pod pirates or people who attack us first. Also, attacking someone without a war does not mean we are pirates. There is a limit to the amount of wars you can have and we would have had a perfectly valid reason to attack them if we had wanted to since they were ruining the region's economy. We also did not infiltrate them. The person who left us to join them was a greedy ***** who got a free MOA and still wasn't happy. The arguements about the number of players and other minor stuff are also important because it shows that all his other facts are wrong! I don't know much about Evolution but I don't think they killed any n00bs except spying alts. Now please go away, you damn ugly Amarr, before I make you my personal play toy ------------------------------------ -Chise
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 03:07:00 - [17] I respectfully disagree. If this is how you do business, blow up the competition, I think everyone has a right to know. As for my small four person corp (now five actually) we've been around for three weeks and our website will be up soon. I find your actions deplorable and ask if you compensated the people you killed or apologized for the unprovoked and undeclared war on this other corporation? Its an honest question that deserves an honest answer. People seem to enjoy dragging up all the misdeeds of other corps (TTI, m0o, Evolution) yet you fail to turn the magnifying glass of honesty on your own misdeeds. This isnt directed solely at Critical Mass. I think we should all examine how we behave. I noticed that KIA company that were honest, then pirates, are now favorites again. This flavor of the month stuff has got to stop.
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 03:09:00 - [18] "I don't know much about Evolution but I don't think they killed any n00bs except spying alts." There were several posts on this board by people who were killed by Evolution for no reason. If you like I will post links. Ive also heard stories of TAOSP and Endless (the two previous incarnations of this group) using expliots in ill-gotten weapons back in beta? I find it ironic that everyone rushes to judgement about everybody else and ignores their own actions.
Chise	Posted - 2003.09.02 03:43:00 - [19] High Priestess, You do not seem to understand! We did not attack them! And IF we did, it would not have been 'unprovoked' as they were ruining the economy by undercutting everyone and selling below mineral cost! If you have seen the issues with the trade federation (which we are not a memebr of) wanting to stabilize/fix prices, you will recall that they were told by most people, including ccp in a csm chat, that the only real way to stop undercutters is to kill them... I don't personally know much about Evolution but maybe someone else in my corp will respond about them... but this is also not about Evolution, its about something that supposedly happened 3 months ago and some lies that we hired moo. ------------------------------------ -Chise
Revolution	Posted - 2003.09.02 03:54:00 - [20] TAOSP was never Endless Corp.
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:04:00 - [21] Revolution. I'm glad you posted. Can you clear this up once and for all. Has Evolution compensated the innocent pilots they killed in Lonetrek prior to this war? I counted at least three threads and five victims who said your members podded them without cause then claimed they were "casualties of war". If not can you explain how that behavior differs at all from pirate corps who pod for no reason claiming its "piracy"? Given no war was declared these newbies were innocents. Thank you I await your answer.
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:05:00 - [22] "TAOSP was never Endless Corp." I thought several members of TAOSP were now in Evolution. My understanding was that TAOSP was made up of former Endless members. If I'm mistaken I apologize.
Revolution	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:07:00 - [23] Edited by: Revolution on 02/09/2003 04:10:19 Are you talking about when we busted the m3g4 corp blockade in obe and they used alt chars to make quick jump bookmarks to escape? edit* I dont want to sound rude, but you should really get your facts straight before you start judging us.
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:20:00 - [24] Revolution. No I'm talking primarily about the long thread a couple of weeks ago (recently revived) by Princess Akmazar the misguided socialist. She was podded by someone in Evolution. The thread was five to six pages long and several other people also posted being podded for no reason. Your "podder" claimed she was an "act of war" yet there was no war at the time. Were those posters compensated for these unjust attacks? I will add I fully support ONE warning then extermination for mystery alts in a war zone. I wont critcize Evolution for its just removal of the M3G4 infestation in Obe. I just believe as a corp proclaiming to be honest and fighting pirates it would be nice to clear up this incident and make right by the unfortunate Lonetrek victims.
Revolution	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:27:00 - [25] It was in a time of war, just that day we had destroyed 7 or 8 tti ships, including the podding of Ayn Rand. Now anyone that was killed that day, was in relation to tti in someway. Its a well known trick of theres to change to nub corps or even other "sub" corps of theirs in an effort to avoid our ships. You just have to look at some of the posters in these threads, check there corps, then check there founders... cough uncle enzo cough gg tti
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:29:00 - [26] "We did not attack them! And IF we did, it would not have been 'unprovoked' as they were ruining the economy by undercutting everyone and selling below mineral cost!" We didnt do it but if we did? This is a complete run around the truth. Some honesty from Critical Mass would be appreciated here. If you ambushed this other corp with a sneak attack at least admit it. Your hemming and hawing on the subject makes you look like your covering this up. Youve criticized many other corporations in Eve yet your own violent piratical alliance is an obvious secret. Come clean and admit you employed these pirates to do your bidding. Acknowledge it was a mistake and proclaim you will never do it again. I will have alot of respect for you then. Now I have only questions for CME business ethics.
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:33:00 - [27] Revolution. While some may have been alts I'm positive "Princess Welfare" as some have called her is not one. She started the thread (which I can't find now was it removed?) and due to her constant ramblings about "caring for the poor" it balloned to five or more pages of posts. She hated everything about every megacorp so I doubt she was an alt of anyone. Disregarding that will you state if Evolution will consider claims made for accidental "deaths" of innocents in empire space? People want to know they'll be compensated if theyre wrongly attacked. Thank you.
Revolution	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:41:00 - [28] We have our reasons for everyone we attack. We dont kill people we are not in hostilities with for "fun". Believe it or not, its up to you. This is the last post you are getting out of me on this matter.
High Priestess	Posted - 2003.09.02 04:52:00 - [29] So in other words Evolution will continue to podkill innocent traders in Lonetrek because its "up to you". My God you sound almost as arrogant as TTI (maybe moreso at least they didnt podkill). I hope everyone sees what you really stand for. This will be my last comment in this thread on this matter as well. I think I've proven my point. Thank you.
Sedsiss	Posted - 2003.09.02 05:04:00 - [30] Priestess, do you even use your brain or type what ever comes out of your fingers? Cripes, when did Rev say we would go hunting traders in lonetrek? Please, point to me where you amarrian tramp. Your posts consist of nothing more than "Evol si bad, they killed people." At the time, we were at war. Princess was a mistake, and if she hand't gone off the handle we might have compensated her, but she went for blood the second that thread was posted. So we forgot about her. Don't like it? Tough, we're not here to make your day better by throwing money at "newb alts" because they were spying on us or evading us. Man, I feel like hunting newbs in lonetrek so bad right now. Note: Sedsiss has lost his mind.

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