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Nova Violet
The Bootcamp
EveryoneVersusEveryone.com.
1
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Posted - 2013.11.15 10:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Topic says it all, can't find a single good thread about this that takes into account recent changes. Let me know your opinion! |
kurage87
EVE University
Ivy League
14
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 10:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Carebear uni noob opinion it might be, but afaik Gallente are broadly speaking the strongest race and Minmitar the weakest. This doesn't account for individual ships or matchups, it's just a birds eye view. |
Chi Garu
Dos Dedos Inc
3
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Posted - 2013.11.15 11:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Are we talking cruiser class hulls as a whole or just the T1 lineup? |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1671
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Posted - 2013.11.15 11:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
The only cruiser minmatar have that really stacks up against the gallente ones is the Scythe fleet issue.
The Rupture and the stabber aren't awful per say, i just think the gallente ones are better.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Froggy Storm
Paxton Industries
Gentlemen's Agreement
116
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Posted - 2013.11.15 12:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Without some more guides to base off of, opinions are going to be vague at best. Thanks to tiericide the T1 cruiser line ups are pretty decent across the board. That said there are of course different meta strategy for each hull/race that tends to stack them better or worse against each other.
And that is before even mentioning skill layout or pilot style.
For my personal opinion I like the gal lineup a bit better for the drone option. Particularly sentry vex. |
Nova Violet
The Bootcamp
EveryoneVersusEveryone.com.
1
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Posted - 2013.11.15 13:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chi Garu wrote:Are we talking cruiser class hulls as a whole or just the T1 lineup?
T2 also, but it looks like from even these general opinions that people tend to lean towards Gallente. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel
Templis Dragonaors
334
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 13:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
From my experience, a Stabber's got a much more forgiving engagement envelope than a Thorax, and can be useful against a wider range of targets, as well as being more resistant to capacitor warfare. A blaster Thorax has to get up close and personal, while a rail Thorax can run into problems with transversal.
As far as the heavy cruisers go, I don't have much experience with the Rupture, but the Vexor can throw a hideous punch, and can set you up for that punch in a number of different ways.
"Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..."
- Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
322
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 13:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stabber is a moving scrambler, thorax actually is a real ship. Arty makes the rupture non-crap, but you need a dozen friends before you can pop anything. And you could have also went out with railthoraxes, which are just better at that engagement range.
The Vexor is just godlike. There is no second ship like the vexor among any race's line-ups. (meaning no other T1 cruiser that goes rampage like a vexor does)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=288823&find=unread
- Looking for a handful of well-versed EU pilots. Especially interested in hyperactive dscanners. |
Meyr
SiN Corp
Advent of Fate
131
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Posted - 2013.11.15 14:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gallente typically have better paper-DPS numbers with short-range weapons, but have trouble applying it, and everything has decent Kin/Therm resistances. Also, the typical Gallente armor tank makes for a slower ship, adding to your difficulties in applying DPS.
Minmatar typically fight in falloff (go to the Eve Uni Wiki for a brief explanation of terms and the basic math behind gunnery), have lower paper-DPS numbers, but, with selectable damage types, have similar, or even better, DPS application. They also have better base speed, making catching your opponent a bit easier.
The above was for short-range guns.
For long-range guns (they recently received a nice bump), the general rule is that "KITING" (fighting outside of web range, but inside of Warp Disruptor, or 'point' range) is preferred. This involves fitting for speed, and a shield tank, with most of your powergrid devoted to large guns.
Surprisingly, Gallente ships stack up fairly well in this regard, particularly the Thorax, but don't underestimate the Vexor, either. That said, Minmatar ships, once again, with their higher base mobility, make dictating range to your opponent easier.
Railguns (Gallente) do better DPS, and, with better tracking, apply it a bit easier, too. However, Artillery (Minmatar) have the highest alpha (damage inflicted in a single strike, or 'volley') at all levels, with selectable damage types, and thus have better capability of hitting your enemy's weak spot.
Feel free to mix-and-match, too. Nothing says you can't shield tank short-range ships, and a shield-tanked Vexor is the highest-DPS cruiser in the game, fully capable of absolutely melting bigger ships under the right circumstances.
Gallente tend to be a bit more skill-intensive, requiring good Drone skills, in addition to tanking and Gunnery, with Minmatar requiring Missiles on selected hulls.
HAVE FUN!
TL;DR - Gallente have better DPS, but more difficulty applying it. YMMV (your mileage may vary, use the above at your own risk, if you undock in something you can't afford to lose, you will surely lose it). |
Drake Doe
Flatulaction
298
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think the stabber compares decently to the thorax because of the falloff bonus, but I've flown neither extensively enough to have a favorite.
"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
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bubble trout
Sky Fighters
103
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
T1 minmatar is weak atm. There are some bright spots in the T2 line up, but honestly if I had to pick where to start RIGHT NOW gallente is what I'd suggest. Hybrids+ drones are stronger in a lot more areas than projectiles and missiles are.
You CAN make minmatar work but it takes a lot of time to kill something when you have lower ehp, paper dps, and you are fighting in deep falloff.
Don't let anyone tell you what to fly though, most ships are much more balanced than they were before ccp got to teiracide. Be a snowflake and learn your ship and you might just surprise people.
RIP winmatar |
Chessur
Strontless Mistakes
Fatal Ascension
261
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Posted - 2013.11.15 16:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Scythe fleet issue, is hands down one of the top cruisers in the game. However post RLM nerf, it will become trash.
In specific regards to the T1 lineup, minmitar have nothing of note. Stabber is horrible 100% of the time, and the arty rupture only see some small use inside of gangs.
SFI is another horrible ship
When it comes to T2 ships-
Vaga is horrible, as it has no projection.
Munin is again like the rupture- useful only for arty gangs.
Gallente on the other hand, share some of the best ships in the game, along with the amarr.
Rail rax
Rail Diemos
Rail Navy Exeq
Ishtar
All of those ships are really, really good. |
Jon Joringer
Zero-K
40
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Posted - 2013.11.15 17:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
The best cruiser offerings of Minmatar are most certainly the Stabber Fleet and the Scythe fleet. The former still excels as a low-sig, afterburning, active-armor brawler. Anyone who tells you the Stabber Fleet is **** doesn't know what they're talking about. And the latter, well the Scythe Fleet can do just about anything -- incredibly versatile and does well in a lot of roles.
However, Gal totally wins in the T1 line-ups of both races -- Minnie is incredibly weak right now. I attribute this mostly to the increase of general speed in all non-Minnie races, the insane dps of blasters and also the TE nerf. |
illirdor
Justified Chaos
75
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 19:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Meyr wrote:if you undock in something you can't afford to lose, you will surely lose it
Thats is a pretty stupid thing to say.. you dont lose somthing just because you cant afford to lose it..
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
680
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gall by far have the best tank/gank ratios between the two.
Minnie are way more versitile.
Minnie can get close enough numbers to tank/gank as Gall but that then put then in direct conflict within the prefered gall engagment boundaries.
I agree with previous posters that the minnies are nowhere near as strong v the other races after the T1 rebalances given the huge speed/damage increases the other have gotten. Very few of the minnies had these increased.
Having said that some of the arguement around fighting deep falloff etc are not as convicning as minnie have always done that. One of if not the biggest strength for minnie was the GTFO factor allowing you to escape and evade an engagement that wasn't going your way. Minnie damage was very rarely the biggest in any of the classes. But now the 'speed/mobility advantage' is vastly reduced, sometimes even gone, that GTFO factor is much much lower.
For a newer played I say the FOTM is Gallente and it will be easier to play within the current metagame if you pick them. If you want to learn more about the game pick minnie. My personal preference is minnie/amarr (cos I don't like the weird techno-organic look to the gall ships, apart from incursus/comet)
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
239
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
When I started in 2007, someone that I viewed as a pvp pro (I have no idea if he was or not) told me this:
Minmatar are hard to fly, hard to skill for and their hulls are extremely unforgiving when you make a mistake. But in the hands of a max-skilled master pilot, most Minmatar ships have no equal. Correct or not, I believed it then and I still believe it today.
Then came the age of Nano, then nano nerf, then Winmatar and DRAEK. And Scorch.
And now, Tiericide (and Hurricane-icide and DRAEK-icide (they forgot to Scorch-icide, but thats ok). But I think we are generally back to most races have pretty good line ups now. Minmater are the least exciting on paper. They are still fast as hell. I still believe that in the hands of an excellent pilot with excellent skills, Minmatar have the greatest ability to pull off the greatest against-the-odds fighting feats of the spacelanes. That is just a guess though, because I almost never see them anymore.
I've flown Gallente through it all, good or bad, because I just like the techno-organic look of the Gallente ships. And really no other reason.
Right now, Gallente cruisers seem really good in the kind of fighting I do, because FW plex gates allow more chances to start at 0. But I still wont go more than 10km from a gate against anyone in a Minmatar ship. Its a death sentence.
Regardless - its a new meta. People took forever to adopt the Drake, and look what it did. It will be fun to see how this all shakes out.
I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
Cult of War
1609
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 22:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gallente, mainly for the Vexor and the Ishtar. If there were ever jack of all trades ship, it's these two.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Niclas Solo
TEMPLAR.
Syrian Natural Gas Co.
9
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Posted - 2013.11.16 05:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
I mostly fly gallente hulls, Ishtar, Myrm and Eos but i have minmatar weapon on them all.  |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
3658
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 07:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
The most important thing I've learnt in EVE so far is that never believe anything about spaceships at face value on the forums.
Form your own opinions, they are the only ones that matter to you anyway.
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Skurja Volpar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
64
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Posted - 2013.11.16 12:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Poor Minmatar cruisers aren't in a great place right now, not including faction. The ruppy is a serviceable brawler, not bad but nothing to cheer about, and as an arty platform it feels way too slow outside of big fleets where your not going to be an obvious primary. Not great but I'd take it over a Maller at least.
And the stabber, well, anemic DPS, even with cheese fit RLMLs in the spare highs, poor tank, and speed which while nice doesn't really elevate it to anything special...
BUT that said, I have more fun with it than pretty much anything else. Sometimes power, effectiveness and meta game viability get locked in a small box, and then there's nothing better than MWDing your way round the galaxy on that little harassment rocket. Despite how bad it looks when compared to the big boy cruisers, the Stabber is the perfect embodiment of good times with spaceships. Actually not an awful arty platform either.
TBH if they buffed it too much I'd probably decide it'd sold out and start flying caracals instead.
Gallente are just strait up good. Pfff. |
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Meyr
SiN Corp
Advent of Fate
133
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Posted - 2013.11.17 03:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
illirdor wrote:Meyr wrote:if you undock in something you can't afford to lose, you will surely lose it Thats is a pretty stupid thing to say.. you dont lose somthing just because you cant afford to lose it..
Obviously, you've never heard of Murphy's Law.
That said, if you can't look at that final paragraph in my post with a sense of humor, try taking the rod out, and re-reading it. |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
41
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Posted - 2013.11.18 02:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Meyr wrote:illirdor wrote:Meyr wrote:if you undock in something you can't afford to lose, you will surely lose it Thats is a pretty stupid thing to say.. you dont lose somthing just because you cant afford to lose it.. Obviously, you've never heard of Murphy's Law. That said, if you can't look at that final paragraph in my post with a sense of humor, try taking the rod out, and re-reading it.
I kinda agree. Every time I have a run of success in a ship, I say to myself 'I'm flying this a lot and having a good run with it, I could justify investing a bit more into this ship'. So I go and pimp it out, and will lose it very quickly. :p
Especially faction disruptors. For some reason every time I upgrade to RF disruptor I lose the ship in some really stupid ways.
It's jinxed! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
779
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Posted - 2013.11.18 09:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Without some more guides to base off of, opinions are going to be vague at best. Thanks to tiericide the T1 cruiser line ups are pretty decent across the board. That said there are of course different meta strategy for each hull/race that tends to stack them better or worse against each other.
And that is before even mentioning skill layout or pilot style.
For my personal opinion I like the gal lineup a bit better for the drone option. Particularly sentry vex.
The only thing bad is that they mde the rupture slower than the thorax. Jsut naother example of CCP throwing out of the widnows all racial identity.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Drake Doe
Flatulaction
298
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 14:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Froggy Storm wrote:Without some more guides to base off of, opinions are going to be vague at best. Thanks to tiericide the T1 cruiser line ups are pretty decent across the board. That said there are of course different meta strategy for each hull/race that tends to stack them better or worse against each other.
And that is before even mentioning skill layout or pilot style.
For my personal opinion I like the gal lineup a bit better for the drone option. Particularly sentry vex. The only thing bad is that they mde the rupture slower than the thorax. Jsut naother example of CCP throwing out of the widnows all racial identity.
A combat cruiser is slower than an attack cruiser, what a huge surprise.
"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
119
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Posted - 2013.11.18 14:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
RLM changes easily make Caldari the worst PvP race, and not just for cruisers. The only good PvP ships Caldari have left are the ECM ships and even those are started to be eclipsed by sensor damps. |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
27
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Posted - 2013.11.18 14:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:
A combat cruiser is slower than an attack cruiser, what a huge surprise.
You have a point there, unfortunately the Rupture is also slower than the Vexor.
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Hrett
Justified Chaos
240
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Posted - 2013.11.18 22:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Drake Doe wrote:
A combat cruiser is slower than an attack cruiser, what a huge surprise.
You have a point there, unfortunately the Rupture is also slower than the Vexor.
Really? Does it have more EHP? Or an extra low for a speed mod? If not, that is kinda stupid.
I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
27
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
I like the Vexor - Rupture example.
Vexor Base Speed : 256m/s
Vexor HP: 8100 EHP
Rupture Base Speed : 263m/s
Rupture HP : 7790 EHP
Both ships have the same slot layout, so both ships can fit the same speed/tank mods.
If you fit plates on both, Vexor will continue to have more HP than the Rupture.
But if you slap an Afterburner or an MWD...
Vexor : 654m/s AB Speed - 1729m/s MWD Speed
Rupture : 649m/s AB Speed - 1693 m/s MWD Speed.
With heat, implants, or other speed enhancement mods that both ships can fit, the difference is bigger.
It happens in other ships too, they kept the +5m/s base speed advantage, but the ships were nerfed with extra mass.
The Minmatar racial speed advantage, in lot's of ship classes, doesn't really exist anymore.
OBS: Despite the different weapon systems, better not compare the DPS potential between this two. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
700
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 01:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:I like the Vexor - Rupture example.
Vexor Base Speed : 256m/s
Vexor HP: 8100 EHP
Rupture Base Speed : 263m/s
Rupture HP : 7790 EHP
Both ships have the same slot layout, so both ships can fit the same speed/tank mods.
If you fit plates on both, Vexor will continue to have more HP than the Rupture.
But if you slap an Afterburner or an MWD...
Vexor : 654m/s AB Speed - 1729m/s MWD Speed
Rupture : 649m/s AB Speed - 1693 m/s MWD Speed.
With heat, or other speed enhancement mods that both ships can fit, the difference is bigger.
It happens in other ships too, they kept the +5m/s base speed advantage, but the ships were nerfed with extra mass.
The Minmatar racial speed advantage, in lot's of ship classes, doesn't really exist anymore.
OBS: Despite the different weapon systems, better not compare the DPS potential between this two.
Agree Urkhan mate. They have not 'balanced' the minnie as such. Now they do the least damage, have lower HP, often lower speed once prop mods are taken into account and are pretty back at damage projection.
Check out my findings and my suggestion to bring some balance back to them.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3892614#post3892614
TLDR. -5% inertia to most minnie ships will see then 'slightly' ahead in speed and agility. But only by 2-3%. Ruppie however -5% Mass to balance it back out.
Leave damage and stuff alone as the above would give them enough of a racial flavour to balance them out IMO.
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Cown
Ministry of Destruction
SCUM.
4
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Posted - 2013.11.19 08:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:I like the Vexor - Rupture example.
Vexor Base Speed : 256m/s
Vexor HP: 8100 EHP
Rupture Base Speed : 263m/s
Rupture HP : 7790 EHP
Both ships have the same slot layout, so both ships can fit the same speed/tank mods.
If you fit plates on both, Vexor will continue to have more HP than the Rupture.
But if you slap an Afterburner or an MWD...
Vexor : 654m/s AB Speed - 1729m/s MWD Speed
Rupture : 649m/s AB Speed - 1693 m/s MWD Speed.
With heat, or other speed enhancement mods that both ships can fit, the difference is bigger.
It happens in other ships too, they kept the +5m/s base speed advantage, but the ships were nerfed with extra mass.
The Minmatar racial speed advantage, in lot's of ship classes, doesn't really exist anymore.
OBS: Despite the different weapon systems, better not compare the DPS potential between this two.
This needs to be fixed.
+1 |
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