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Quagmire
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Posted - 2003.09.02 19:34:00 -
[1]
Hi all.
You're meant to be able to see this black hole 'clearly' from the Konora system. I've been in this system for a while, and flown around all the planets, a lot of the moons, and even travelled to the sun. I can't find it. I thought it'd be quite obvious, being the largest black hole in the system, and all.
It does exist, right? Has anyone out there actually seen the thing? If so, I'd appreciate some pointers as to where I need to go to see it.
Many thanks,
Quagmire.
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Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.09.02 19:45:00 -
[2]
Eh
Well, no, it ain't there =
you just have to imagine it. Yeah, that's it :)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Dangit
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Posted - 2003.09.02 20:30:00 -
[3]
Its kinda disappointing, i was expecting something off in the distance like the evegate in new eden, but a black hole instead. Oh well.
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Lliad
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Posted - 2003.09.02 20:39:00 -
[4]
Well u cant actually see balck holes.
However, it should be represented by a black patch devoid of all light, starts, gas clouds ,ect
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Tigrana Blanque
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Posted - 2003.09.02 20:43:00 -
[5]
You can't see the hole. But any black hole of size close enough to any source for matter should glow like the ****ens from the accretion disk. It would be pretty unhealthy to be anywhere near (not just because of the gravity/tidal stesses) thanks to all the radiation.
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.09.02 21:08:00 -
[6]
Are you certain black holes are emitting radiation?
After all light IS radiation too, only with less energy then the harmfull ones.
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soonÖ |
Cruise
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Posted - 2003.09.02 21:19:00 -
[7]
I haven't heard of this particular phenom in the game until now, so not sure if it indeed does exist.
If they incorporated scientific theory concerning a black hole (which is technically not a hole at all. It's a white dwarf that has collapsed so quickly on itself that the gravitational pull from the sheer density of material pulls any and all matter into it, including all forms of emitted radiation) then you wouldn't see anything save for a void. No radiation emissions, nothing but dead black.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2003.09.02 22:04:00 -
[8]
Astronomer to the rescue...
It's true that we cannot see black holes directly--nothing can escape.
--BUT--
That's only things inside and on the event horizon. Light can still escape outside the event horizon, and because many black holes have large accretion discs (often from a companion star), the high speeds the accreting material reaches heats it up and causes it to emit electromagnetic radiation, mostly in the form of X-rays, but also longer wavelengths.
Thus, if your black hole was once part of a binary system, there is a good chance it's stealing material from its companion star.
Another interesting thing to note is that the brightest objects in the universe, quasars, are thought to be caused by supermassive black holes. How? They are surrounded by massive amounts of gas... spheres of gas larger in diameter than our own solar system. As the gas near the black hole spirals into it, the gas approaches speeds near that of light.
The friction between the molecules of gas at these speeds cause them to heat up to fantastic temperatures, which in turn creates massive amounts of X-rays, and even gamma rays. These X-rays and gamma rays energize the surrounding gas, causing it to glow extremely brightly.
That's your astronomy lesson for the day. 
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Draaven
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Posted - 2003.09.02 22:40:00 -
[9]
Cool explanation. I was about to reach for my own astronomy books myself, but you nailed this one perfectly.
While we're on the topic, what kinds of other celestial events or objects would you guys like to see in Eve? I mean, those CCP folks have their hands full already with more pressing matters, and the artwork is superb as it is...but I was thinking:
- galaxies at different distances. I once saw an artist's depiction of how our own Milky Way would look if viewed from the Large Magellanic Cloud...very wild stuff. Maybe even some galaxies in the process of colliding as seen from very far away?
- Supernova's, anyone? Maybe how the area would look 3-6 months after the detonation? (a cool-looking expanding shockwave crashing into nearby gas clouds would be awesome), as viewed from maybe 100-110 light years from whatever system the CCP artist puts it in.
- How about ringed planets with actual structure (as in Saturn) instead of the gas clouds that you see nearby planets in Eve?
One more thing...it's something that kind of irks me...the planets in Eve. They rotate way too fast. Some of them look like one of their "days" would last about 20 minutes.
In any case, just some food for thought...if nothing else, it's an interesting diversion from the usual topics!
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.09.02 22:45:00 -
[10]
Content wise, I think the graphics for black holes are there (if you dig) and they look quite cool, possibly animated backgrounds. They're not in the game though (I'd love to be proven wrong because I'd love to see one of these things in the flesh). Like most of the good stuff.
Ah well. Better luck next patch.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.02 22:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Sc0rpion on 02/09/2003 22:51:02
Ginnungagap is perfectly visible from the Konora system, the problem is you probably don't know what to look for.
The image most commonly associated with a black hole (seen here) is actually a composite image based on an x-ray picture. A realy black hole would look nothing like this.
Look at the nebula above the plane of the Konora system (It's the dominant visible feature on the skybox). Just below and to the right of the nebula, there is a large, glowing area about the size of your thumb. That is Ginnungagap, it's radiation illuminating the surrounding gas.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Drake Ramirez
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Posted - 2003.09.02 23:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Drake Ramirez on 02/09/2003 23:01:05
You can see it, it's in the blob of light & cloud  and not very impressive 
Drake Ramirez
When everything else is said and done, there will be nothing else to say or do... |
Zorgan
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Posted - 2003.09.02 23:20:00 -
[13]
Sc0rpion, your on drugs...hehe, when you look at the info of it, it shows a picture of the black hole....do you see that picture anywhere in that system? I don't because its not there..
Sigs suck |
Fallout
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Posted - 2003.09.02 23:26:00 -
[14]
Well I figure it this way, if it took up most of background then anyone that entered Konora would have the small bother of being caught in its gravity well. which could do all sorts of weird things to the gravity based warp drives.
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Uma Kruytls
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Posted - 2003.09.02 23:32:00 -
[15]
Now we just got to figure out how we get the M0o to camp the rim of it...
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Biscotto
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Posted - 2003.09.03 02:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Biscotto on 03/09/2003 02:02:08
 Quote:
Astronomer to the rescue...
It's true that we cannot see black holes directly--nothing can escape.
While I agree with what you said after the quote, dont black holes emit hawking radiation?
I may be wrong here(I have an unsure memory of the hawking theory being withdrawn) or misunderstood you.
The theory goes:-
Small particles are constantly being created throughout the universe, one anti matter and one matter, usualy they mutually self destruct. However if they are created on the event horizon(or just inside) of a black hole, due to the uncertainty principle one of the particles may have sufficent velocity to escape and thus is seen as hawking radiation?
Carry forth the light of Redemption.
Take it unto the places filled with darkness,
And with it destroy the shadows. |
Quagmire
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Posted - 2003.09.03 09:22:00 -
[17]
If Ginnungagap really is that bright blob within the gas cloud. and nothing like the graphic shown when you 'show info' on it from the map, then I'm very disappointed.
~S
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Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Quagmire
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Posted - 2003.09.03 09:24:00 -
[18]
Incidentally, I know a bit about black holes, and know that you can't see them directly - you can only see their effects around them. I read 'A Brief History of Time' and actually understood it all.
The point it, I was expecting to see what you get shown when you check out the black hole on the map...
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Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
K24Q
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Posted - 2003.09.03 11:44:00 -
[19]
Yeah I got jibbed, I paid 500K for the map locations (j/k)
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Tigrana Blanque
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Posted - 2003.09.03 12:47:00 -
[20]
The black hole itself I believe is expected to emit Hawking radiation caused by the escape of one of a pair of continually-created quantum particles (proton/antiproton pairs). Since the matched pairs cancel they don't violate causality or the conservation of mass/energy, but they would be created by spacetime stresses right 'on' the event horizon. Usually they'd self-annihilate, but on occasion one could fall 'in' while the other falls 'out', thus black holes, although "disconnected" from spacetime in the sense that nothing behind the event horizon is knowable, do slowly leak. The supermassives would have such large accretion disks (even in relatively thin interstellar media) that it wouldn't matter and they'd still grow. The so called quantum black holes possibly formed after the big bang would have all evaporated by now.
The other factor that makes a black hole 'emit radiation' as a stellar phenomona is that they were created from stars, which would have had spin *and* magnetic fields. A spinning black hole will drag material into an accretion disk around its waist, which as someone else posted due to friction will emit hugely. But on top of that the hole also likely has the same magnetic field as the originating star, and/or the accretion disk behavior can also cause a strong mag field. Therefore the black hole can emit huge plasma jets out the poles (the only lines of escape where the curl of the magnetic field lines is minimized). These plasma jets would contain not only radiation but charged particles as well.
Its even postulated (read some of the SF by Greg Benford for a neat fictional presentation of it) that a *rapidly* rotating black hole will have an 'ergosphere'....a zone around the middle between accretion disk and event horizon itself where spacetime is whorled and knotted and unusual things can happen like causality distortions, spacelike and timelike loops, etc.
At least that's my 'popular science' level understanding of all the above. I probably have some of the specifics a bit wrong here and there but the gist should be pretty good.
Next week, "Supernovas!" :-)
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Sybylle
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Posted - 2003.09.04 11:29:00 -
[21]
Your description is quite good, but we know little about black holes...
They are probably formed by supernovaes, that didn't exploded but collapsed, condensenting the mantle of the star. Due to its heavy "compression", even photon cannot escape the black hole's gravity.
This is how we can deduct that a blackhole exists : it hides stars beyond it, absobing their light.
Due to the hight mass of this kind of object, we suppose that (according to Einstein), they are alble to curve the space and so to make distance between 2 points shorter, that is equivalent to a time gain.
Anyway, travelling near a blackhole is not very safe...If even photons cannot escape the gravity, I fear that a ship won't resist it.
FYI, it seems that the center of our galaxy (RL speaking of course ) seems to have 2 blackhole orbiting. One is very massive (more than 20 times our Sun) and the other one is an intermediate blackhole, a new class, that is "only" between 5 and 10 times our Sun.
The next object I would like to see in Eve is a quasar...Make some search on it...It's very impressive.
I will post soon something about true stellar objects in the Eve idea lab.
I might be wrong in using some words, but English is not my native language.
Feel free to ask more details, I got them
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Quagmire
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Posted - 2003.09.04 12:50:00 -
[22]
Going back to the topic at hand.
I had another look around and didn't see anything that really warrented a 'wow'. I sent my ship off to a solar system near 'The Point Of No Return' (getting my Navitas destroyed by Angle Thugs in the process) and saw a very bright object in the clouds. This looked far more interesting than what I found in the Konora system.
Anyways, I'm off to the 'Pool of Radiance' next. 67 jumps, and a lot of 0.0 space.  Wish me luck - I'm fitting out the new ship with afterburners and overdrives to try and out-run any attackers.
--
Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Sybylle
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Posted - 2003.09.05 10:10:00 -
[23]
Here is a link to something you might find interesting :p
Eve idea labs : new items, new mining style, new research...
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2003.09.05 10:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lardarz B'stard on 05/09/2003 10:23:48
Quote:
Edited by: Biscotto on 03/09/2003 02:02:08
Quote:
Astronomer to the rescue...
It's true that we cannot see black holes directly--nothing can escape.
While I agree with what you said after the quote, dont black holes emit hawking radiation?
Yes this is true, and is caused by the uncertainty principle whereby matter vs antimatter annihilating leads to a small proportion of particles draining frfom the event horizon, which produces detectable radiation.
Given the finite length of time the universe has been around, eventually all black holes will decay by this method, although it is VERY slow.
PS: do you all really give a toss anyway?
didnt think so............
E.T. Radio - designed to enhance your flying experience....
http://radio.evesound.net:8000/evetrance.ogg.m3u |
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