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Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
47
   |
Posted - 2013.11.29 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
If CCP is going to try T3 again I'd like to see them go back to their original strategy when making the jump from T1 -> T2.
The jump from T1 - > T2 promoted special purpose ships that were good at what they were designed for and bad for most other things.
I think that's a good way to iterate down the road on ships....
With T3, they did the opposite. They created powerful swiss army knives. They outclass MANY T2 ships and roles....
I never liked the design of the T3 ships.
Unless they can find some way to rebalance the current T3 ships in a way that fits more with the rest of the game, I wouldn't support new ones. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Really? They outclass T2s?
ECM Tengu vs Falcon. Falcon has greater jam strength
Web Loki vs Rapier. Rapier has almost double web range
Lachesis/Arazu vs Proteus. Prot doesn't have nearly enough speed OR range to fulfill the Arazu's role
Neut legion vs Curse. Do I even need to prove this one? When you get a Legion that neuts past 70km let me know...
And yet, they still get flown in rather large fleets preferentially over the ships you just mentioned in many cases.
I wonder why?
Not to mention they just got hella buffed by mobile depots. Carry around extra fits with you, and you can fulfill many different roles on a 2 minute notice.
In the T1 -> T2 -> T3 progression, the T3 is the odd man out. Completely unspecialized, and too strong. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
51
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 17:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Really? They outclass T2s?
ECM Tengu vs Falcon. Falcon has greater jam strength
Web Loki vs Rapier. Rapier has almost double web range
Lachesis/Arazu vs Proteus. Prot doesn't have nearly enough speed OR range to fulfill the Arazu's role
Neut legion vs Curse. Do I even need to prove this one? When you get a Legion that neuts past 70km let me know... And yet, they still get flown in rather large fleets preferentially over the ships you just mentioned in many cases. I wonder why? Not to mention they just got hella buffed by mobile depots. Carry around extra fits with you, and you can fulfill many different roles on a 2 minute notice. In the T1 -> T2 -> T3 progression, the T3 is the odd man out. Completely unspecialized, and too strong. I don't want to turn this into a "OMG T3 is OP" thread but i have to disagree with you. Yes, T3 ships are very popular in wormhole space but in normal space, i don't know of any alliance that uses ECM Tengus instead of falcons or legions instead of the curse. What we tend to see is large fleets of rail tengus which are pretty weak and have viable counters. Also your progression diagram (T1 > T2 > T3) doesn't include pirate faction ships, so it not a fair statement. M1k3y Koontz, is right in that only a 5%-10% nerf to a small number of sub-system are required.
It's not the fact that you can point out an individual role and say a T2 is better that makes the T3 strong.
It's that the T3 can fulfill a hilariously large amount of roles, and recently gained the ability to swap roles undocked with a mobile depot that only has a 60s anchor time.
People who don't think that's a massive increase in power are likely naive to a childlike degree.
You can't ECM if you are busy flying to base to get your Falcon.
It's cute that people think it's relevant to debate balance on paper without consideration of actual fleet logistics, but it doesn't really mean much.
There are reasons why ever since T3's were released, most people, even new players, made an initial grab for them. They are nearly mandatory to have on your account.
Sure, they might not be the best at individual roles, but when has that ever mattered? The most important thing is fulfilling a role. Doing it perfectly is nearly impossible even with a ship that's designed for it -- got a few billion ISK for a full set of Slave (or whatever) implants? EVERY single relevant skill to V?...etc |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
51
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 18:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:To kill a depot before it anchors (and has a RF timer) you only need 300 DPS (292 if you want to be technical), so they aren't supremely useful in combat.
Why would you attempt to refit in the middle of combat? This is an insane argument.
Unless you literally had nothing to lose (going to die anyway) it would be stupid to even try.
I have no idea where you got the idea that I was suggesting that you attempt to refit while in combat.
I mean -- What?
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Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
52
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 18:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:[Undocked implies in combat,
That's ridiculous.
Being undocked does NOT mean you are in combat. If I'm in an empty system, am I "in combat?"
If I am in a system with only 1 other person in it, and they are docked, am I "in combat?"
What kind of nonsense is this?
I have used mobile depots dozens of times already, none of those times was when I was actively fighting somebody. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
52
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 19:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
So you're saying swapping your role within a few minutes vs. flying back 20 jumps, swapping your ship, then making the return flight for another 20 jumps....Isn't an advantage?
Fascinating.
Please tell me more about how mobile depots are not an advantage.
Maybe you are in some sort of super alliance that has Sov in every single system, and a station in every single system. I am not aware of any alliance like that. Maybe yours is the first. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
Apex.
52
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 19:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Whoops. double =(
delete me plz. |
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