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Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
CODE.
3242
   |
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
I've always been in favor of leaving the existing bombers alone. I would love to see ships that can also fit bomb launchers. Perhaps a destroyer or cruiser that can fit 2-3 bomb launchers but no covert ops cloak, a battleship or battlecruiser that can fit 8 bomb launchers, and a larger stealth bomber that can also fire multiple bombs and cloak but be more expensive.
See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
1066
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 03:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
While most see the Stealth Bomber as an exceptionally versatile, multirole ship, there is the major drawback that it does have that completely invalidates this entire thread. That is the simple fact that they are paper thin at best, even when they are fit correctly.
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives"-á |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Brave Collective
880
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lol OP whut ?
Stealth Bombers are one of the most successful and balanced ships in Eve, plus they are one of the rare ships that require actual piloting skills, excellent squad coordination, reactivity and good 3d awareness.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. |
raylu D
HELLSINKER
Unsuitable
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 07:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:they are paper thin at best, even when they are fit correctly.
They pick their fights. I'd agree if they couldn't fit a covops cloak - which I suggested as a possible solution.
Altrue wrote:plus they are one of the rare ships that require actual piloting skills, excellent squad coordination, reactivity and good 3d awareness.
They would if we went with the T1/T2 bomb disparity I suggest. I know it wasn't your point, but it's ironic that stealth bombers are not rare at all - you see them all the time in all securities. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
Surely You're Joking
205
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 23:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Smart pilots pick their fights. What is your point?
Why do stealth bombers have to be "rare?" Again you fail to make any sort of meaningful point. |
raylu D
HELLSINKER
Unsuitable
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 01:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Smart pilots pick their fights. What is your point?
Why do stealth bombers have to be "rare?" Again you fail to make any sort of meaningful point.
You're right. I hadn't realized cloaking was useless.
Stealth bombers are everywhere. Everyone has trained them. This suggests that they are too versatile - which is my _entire_ point. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
Surely You're Joking
205
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 04:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Who said cloaking was useless?
Maybe you could realize SB's aren't exactly hard to train into. Why don't you tell us how you really feel? |
raylu D
HELLSINKER
Unsuitable
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 17:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Who said cloaking was useless?
Yes, that's my point. While all ships try to pick their fights, quicker ships and cloaky ships are better at it. That's how ganking works - you fight people that don't want to fight you. Dismissing my point, "[stealth bombers] pick their fights" with "Smart pilots pick their fights" is disingenuous.
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Maybe you could realize SB's aren't exactly hard to train into. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?
That's my point. I said that in OP. Please read it. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
Surely You're Joking
205
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 18:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
What is wrong with mobile ships being able to pick their fights? That's the idea, you trade defenses for mobility.
What is wrong with the length of time SBs take to train into? |
raylu D
HELLSINKER
Unsuitable
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 22:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:What is wrong with mobile ships being able to pick their fights? That's the idea, you trade defenses for mobility.
What is wrong with the length of time SBs take to train into?
Edit: Also I've looked at your KB and I don't see a single SB kill. And it's funny you said bombers are "good at killing small things" when they aren't unless the target is webbed, painted and going slow. Doesn't show a lot of credibility.
Did you read my post at all? I address your questions.
raylu C is my SB pilot.
Read my post - stealth bombers are the best ships for getting initial tackle on small things. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
1037
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 01:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Regardless of hwo silly the OP's other accusations are, i HAVE to reply to the "can gank smaller ships".
ive been in wormholes, hell, i was with SYJ for over a year back when they were C5/C6 and no one had failscaded yet.
the most amusing thign on the planet was when a SB decloaked near our cruiser/BC gang, because we would isnatntly lock and alpha them off the field with 1 or 2 guys before they could even launch a bomb/missiles. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
Surely You're Joking
205
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 01:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
raylu D wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:What is wrong with mobile ships being able to pick their fights? That's the idea, you trade defenses for mobility.
What is wrong with the length of time SBs take to train into?
Edit: Also I've looked at your KB and I don't see a single SB kill. And it's funny you said bombers are "good at killing small things" when they aren't unless the target is webbed, painted and going slow. Doesn't show a lot of credibility. Did you read my post at all? I address your questions. raylu C is my SB pilot. Read my post - stealth bombers are the best ships for getting initial tackle on small things.
Which part? Let's not do this "look at my post" garbage because I've read your posts. So what if they are the best ships at getting initial tackle? That's only true if no one bothers to shoot the bomber. Ceptors have much better survivability. You answered none of my points.
Also being on a handful of kills with your bomber doesn't make raylu C your "SB pilot." Just the one that happens to fly SBs. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
Surely You're Joking
207
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
. |
LtauSTinpoWErs
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 20:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
If anything, I would say SBs need a slight pg/cpu buff. Otherwise, I think they are right where they should be. Although I would love for them to get a bonus to rockets as well  |
Galison
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 06:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
OP your an idiot lets be honest oh lets add a delay on locking on decloak what do you get anything small t1 or t2 frig sees you knows theres a delay eitehr 1 combat fit for pvp rushs you and in effect kill you assuming your in point range(bombing should only be done when you have a warp through so the range is meh) and 2 if your out of range my nemesis has 119k range on the torps and 130k lock with my fits just warp away simplly put a bomber with a lock delay on decloak is next to worthless against anything combaty with someone paying attention and would only be useful on hualers and barges and even the barges its iffy since as pointed out before they have a flight of lights. Again as has been said before a solo bomber is beyond meh same with a solo bomber bombing stuff your meh I dont think a single bomb can kill anything in one hit beyond a mwding t1 frig. You mentioned in fleets well guess what i could take 10 incursus warp in on something using a cloaking as a warpto and chanegs are anything short of a cap kill it(yes i know uber fit bs could likely tank and all but 10 incursus can still do a lot of dmg and cost NOTHING) in short bombers are fine the way they are. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
456
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Malcanis wrote:I'm pretty happy with bombers in the place where they are. It's nonsensical to try and claim that they make other frigate class ships not worthwhile, because torps are so utterly different to any weapon other frigate class ships use. And observational evidence shows us plenty of frigates doing plenty of things with no worries in the world about bombers treading on their toes.
I'm hoping that torps themselves get a rebalance, and when they do it's likely that bomber bonuses will need to be reworked to compensate, but right now, bombers are pretty cool IMO. Yea, be totally happy with a ship that a cost analysis has shown out performs BS and t3's for grinding sov as far as cost and DPS goes, can fling wave after wave after wave of bombs with bomb code that frequently goes on the frittz and forgets its supposed to blow up the wrong bomb type and now we have people ISboxing groups of bombers. Sounds perfectly balanced to me. Let me help, if the Goon only uses one thing and one thing only to grind sov with, theres something broken about it, regardless of your 'opinion'
when will ppl stop calling for nerf because of goon's FOTM? really, this is getting old and painfull.
this is how many ship were nerfed to the ground.
what will it be next?
if your BC cannot defend himself vs a solo SB and die, that's not because SB is OP, it's because you are BAD at flying said BC.
and for frigs, lol, the SB is probably the worst choice to engage frigs unless bombing them.....
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
3530
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 18:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:SB are balanced.
basically any other ship equipped with a weapon system can eat a SB. Any ship able to deploy a flight of light drones can get rid of a SB. A SB can only harm BS and BC (and all these have drones).
Bomber attacked my Helios the other day.... foolish maniticore
In general, I'm pretty happy with bombers.
They are unique, with an interesting weapon system that truly is only really viable against stationary targets or large targets.
Their bombs are great anti-blob tools, but require work and coordination to accurate deploy.
They might be great for grinding sov structures, but even a small force can harass the hell out of a siege fleet.
If they create the equivalent of tracking computers for missiles (i.e. a module to lower explosion sig & velocity), they might need re-examining. But I don't see where they are overpowered in the current environment.
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2485
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 03:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Are you guys really arguing siege fleet as a reason SB's are overpowered? Look just because you dumbasses only undock in carriers these days doesn't mean the SB is broken.
I remember another alliance we fought in the last year that tried a siege fleet concept right back at us and we shut it down handily with a few rapiers vagabonds and sabres. A small gang of dedicated harassers can really ruin a siege fleets day. Hell solo dudes in cynabals were giving our guys hell till I made the suggestion of sneaking recons into the fleet. Stop sucking.
As far as initial tackle of a bomber being op it's like you guys don't even know about interceptors and warp speed rigs. A ship that's only tank can be blown away by a stiff fart does not make great initial tackle unless you are dealing with complete morons. |
raylu D
HELLSINKER
Unsuitable
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 08:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
It's very interesting that everyone keeps pointing to individual things that stealth bombers can do and conclude that stealth bombers aren't overpowered. Yes, and as my post says, if stealth bombers could only do a few of those things they would be pretty balanced in my opinion. It's the fact that SB's can do all of them and are such a short train that makes them need rebalancing.
A lot of you have also grossly misunderstood what I meant about good against small ships. It's almost like you guys read that tagline and didn't read the part where I talk about initial tackle for gank, not 1v1 (though I have linked a very successful solo SB pilot, as tangential as that is).
"Seraph IX Basarab" wrote:Which part?
Let's start with the very first part, where I answer your very first question.
Quote:For some reason, they also are the only ship to have no retargeting delay after decloaking. This means that the only thing that can avoid being pointed by a stealth bomber is a pre-aligned frigate piloted by someone with really fast reflexes.
In lowsec and w-space, using a stealth bomber for initial tackle is uncounterable, which is why we use them.
Now go read the rest of my post to answer all of the rest of your questions. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
Surely You're Joking
218
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:05:00 -
[50] - Quote
You didn't and that doesn't show it to be over powered. It just shows you whining over a mechanic you don't understand. Simply tackling a small ship doesn't make the bomber over powered. Without OTHER ships, the bomber is as good as dead. Give me an AB AF and i'll kill 10 bombers by myself easily. |
Psianh Auvyander
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 02:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
People use stealth bombers to hit towers not because they're ideal, not because they fit the role so well, not because of their versatility, but because the other options are less than ideal, are less versatile. This isn't a problem with stealth bombers. This is the beauty of EVE at work, where players have thought outside of the box and found a solution to a problem created by other players. 'If we hit this tower with a fleet of battleships or dreadnoughts, our enemy will bring carriers and we'll be caught here. Instead, let's bring stealth bombers. It will take far longer to complete but we will have the option to leave if we must.'
Stealth bombers are decent (I wouldn't even call them good) at getting point on something, but they're not decent at staying there until their friends arrive. If a stealth bomber attacks a small ship, the small ship has an inherent advantage against a stealth bomber and should be able to easily dispatch it before friends can jump into the system and complete warp. If a stealth bomber attacks a large ship, its drones, neutralizer, and many other modules can very quickly render a stealth bomber's size and speed ineffective, allowing the larger ship to quickly dispatch the ship.
What we see here is advantages coupled with disadvantages. A stealth bomber can do one thing at the cost of another thing. This isn't versatility, it's balance.
I hope you'll truly read and appreciate the amount of comments from people who have spent a long, long time in stealth bombers rather than dismissing us out of hand and repeating your statements. Put simply, stealth bombers are not the issue to the problems you're assuming exist.
My CSM Thread
My Blog
@wsethbrown |
raylu D
HELLSINKER
Unsuitable
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Psianh Auvyander wrote:It will take far longer to complete but we will have the option to leave if we must.
Surely this is bad for content creation? Surely this is not good game design?
Psianh Auvyander wrote:If a stealth bomber attacks a small ship, the small ship has an inherent advantage against a stealth bomber and should be able to easily dispatch it before friends can jump into the system and complete warp.
Generally when we do this, we have the heavy tackle cloaked next to the stealth bomber.
Psianh Auvyander wrote:If a stealth bomber attacks a large ship, its drones, neutralizer, and many other modules can very quickly render a stealth bomber's size and speed ineffective, allowing the larger ship to quickly dispatch the ship.
You can point outside of neut, scram, and web range. The only things that hurt are bonused webs, bonused neuts, light drones, and really good tracking. Regardless, many targets don't have any of these.
Quote:I hope you'll truly read and appreciate the amount of comments from people who have spent a long, long time in stealth bombers rather than dismissing us out of hand and repeating your statements. Put simply, stealth bombers are not the issue to the problems you're assuming exist.
I too have spent a lot of time in them. But unlike most of the posters here, I've used them for far more things. They're not overpowered at any one thing, but they are good at too many things. That's versatility, which in abundance is imbalance. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
871
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:i think people need to think more about new players.
how many months do players need to spend training in order to meaningfully participate in PvP beyond suicide tackle and blobbing t1 frigates?
bombers are an insanely important middle ground that allow for really fun and interesting PvP from low skillpoint accounts, able to group up and damage larger ships.
this is good. not bad.
gank catalysts day 1
EAF, AF not very long at all.
ceptor not very long at all.
decent dps in a t1 cruiser not very long at all.
i was involved in large null battles from 3 months of age.
now at a year old i am leadership group of a 7 year old pvp null corp. Low SP pilots can do a ton of helpful stuff in T2 frigs, faction frigs and t1 cruisers.
Money at its root is a form of rationing.
When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
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