| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Minerdog
   |
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:22:00 -
[1]
I see a lot of Taranis setup posts, but not many Ares. Is the Taranis a better ship?
|
NateX
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:24:00 -
[2]
Yes, for killing
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:26:00 -
[3]
They have seperate roles. I prefer the ares because of it's split weaponry capability. Used as an interceptor instead of a tackler, the ares makes an incredibly 1v1 elimination frigate. Using ranged weaponry (125mm rails and missile launchers, 20k disruptor) the ares can maintain space-superiority over most other frigates and interceptors, especially when piloted by a smart ares pilot.
Unfortunatally, because more people want no-brainer engagements (click, orbit, kill) the taranis is more popular and public opinion would leave you to think the ares is useless. Keep the taranis for tackling and the ares for frigate(t1 and t2) interception.
--------------
|
Meruth
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:27:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Malka Badi'a
They have seperate roles. I prefer the ares because of it's split weaponry capability. Used as an interceptor instead of a tackler, the ares makes an incredibly 1v1 elimination frigate. Using ranged weaponry (125mm rails and missile launchers, 20k disruptor) the ares can maintain space-superiority over most other frigates and interceptors, especially when piloted by a smart ares pilot.
Unfortunatally, because more people want no-brainer engagements (click, orbit, kill) the taranis is more popular and public opinion would leave you to think the ares is useless. Keep the taranis for tackling and the ares for frigate(t1 and t2) interception.
Yes but the Ares seriously lakcs the PG to fit std launchers and 125mms, whereas the Taranis you can quite comfortably fit a 20km ranged setup.
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Meruth
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
They have seperate roles. I prefer the ares because of it's split weaponry capability. Used as an interceptor instead of a tackler, the ares makes an incredibly 1v1 elimination frigate. Using ranged weaponry (125mm rails and missile launchers, 20k disruptor) the ares can maintain space-superiority over most other frigates and interceptors, especially when piloted by a smart ares pilot.
Unfortunatally, because more people want no-brainer engagements (click, orbit, kill) the taranis is more popular and public opinion would leave you to think the ares is useless. Keep the taranis for tackling and the ares for frigate(t1 and t2) interception.
Yes but the Ares seriously lakcs the PG to fit std launchers and 125mms, whereas the Taranis you can quite comfortably fit a 20km ranged setup.
Ares + good pilot = nasty. With good piloting you can easily go after most inties.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:33:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Ares + good pilot = nasty. With good piloting you can easily go after most inties.
And that is the key. Because of the mixed weaponry you can do various forms of damage and the missile launchers allow very solid damage (and unavoidable due to missile speed regardless of turret tracking) that can change according to the engagement. The ares is a killer 1v1 interception-tactic frigate, if used in the correct hands. Especially with it's higher base speed and smaller signature.
--------------
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Ares + good pilot = nasty. With good piloting you can easily go after most inties.
And that is the key. Because of the mixed weaponry you can do various forms of damage and the missile launchers allow very solid damage (and unavoidable due to missile speed regardless of turret tracking) that can change according to the engagement. The ares is a killer 1v1 interception-tactic frigate, if used in the correct hands. Especially with it's higher base speed and smaller signature.
Missiles + good piloting = hax. I can't do it in crusader.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Meruth
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Ares + good pilot = nasty. With good piloting you can easily go after most inties.
And that is the key. Because of the mixed weaponry you can do various forms of damage and the missile launchers allow very solid damage (and unavoidable due to missile speed regardless of turret tracking) that can change according to the engagement. The ares is a killer 1v1 interception-tactic frigate, if used in the correct hands. Especially with it's higher base speed and smaller signature.
You can say that for any ship really tho, and if you are fighting other inties and they aren't webbed (aslong as they have Mwd or Ab ofc) you're missiles wont really hurt them.
Anyway, I'm sticking with my Taranis :p
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Meruth
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Ares + good pilot = nasty. With good piloting you can easily go after most inties.
And that is the key. Because of the mixed weaponry you can do various forms of damage and the missile launchers allow very solid damage (and unavoidable due to missile speed regardless of turret tracking) that can change according to the engagement. The ares is a killer 1v1 interception-tactic frigate, if used in the correct hands. Especially with it's higher base speed and smaller signature.
You can say that for any ship really tho, and if you are fighting other inties and they aren't webbed (aslong as they have Mwd or Ab ofc) you're missiles wont really hurt them.
Anyway, I'm sticking with my Taranis :p
Well they won't hurt them if they fly straight. Which they won't.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:52:00 -
[10]
Quote:
You can say that for any ship really tho, and if you are fighting other inties and they aren't webbed (aslong as they have Mwd or Ab ofc) you're missiles wont really hurt them.
The missiles will do just fine. The highest velocity obtainable requires a straight line and an interceptor pilot that does a straight line against an ares (remember, ares is faster than the taranis, it would easily catch up) the missiles will still hit for somewhat decent damage. And due to the higher speed of both ships the taranis would have a good deal of difficulty attacking and hitting the ares, where as the ares at least has glancing missile hits against the taranis... until the faster speed of the ares catches up with webbing range of the taranis, and then goodbye taranis.
It is similarly nasty against assault frigates, even ishkurs, as the missiles can be redirected against the drones and the hybrids against the frigate. Don't get me wrong, the ares isn't a win button and it does require some knowledge beforehand to make the ship work. But it sure has a hell of a lot more potiential than most f1-f12 pilots give it credit for.
--------------
|
Super frenchy
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:06:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Super frenchy on 28/02/2006 20:08:13
If you ever kill a taranis in an ares , then the taranis pilot must go back in his rookie ship till he got some skill/experience 
In a good taranis with an experienced pilot , you can kill almost any interceptor/AS and even some cruiser ( like moa/rupture and such )
PS: btw last ares I fought don't even pass my shield before he went down 
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 28/02/2006 19:57:43
Quote:
You can say that for any ship really tho, and if you are fighting other inties and they aren't webbed (aslong as they have Mwd or Ab ofc) you're missiles wont really hurt them.
The missiles will do just fine. The highest velocity obtainable requires a straight line and an interceptor pilot that does a straight line against an ares (remember, ares is faster than the taranis, it would easily catch up) the missiles will still hit for somewhat decent damage. And due to the higher speed of both ships the taranis would have a good deal of difficulty attacking and hitting the ares, where as the ares at least has glancing missile hits against the taranis... until the faster speed of the ares catches up with webbing range of the taranis, and then goodbye taranis.
It is similarly nasty against assault frigates, even ishkurs, as the missiles can be redirected against the drones and the hybrids against the frigate. Don't get me wrong, the ares isn't a win button and it does require some knowledge beforehand to make the ship work. But it sure has a hell of a lot more potiential than most f1-f12 pilots give it credit for.
edit: And yes, the ares would certainly catch up within a few brief moments Quote:
Ares:
450 m/s
562.5 m/s after nav V
3656.25 m/s after MWD II
3796.875 m/s after MWD II and accel control V
Taranis:
420m/s
525 m/s after nav V
3412.5 m/s after MWD II
3543.75 m/s after MWD II and accell control V
my ranis goes faster than that, substantialy, without having acc. control 5. just under 4km/s i believe.
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 28/02/2006 20:11:30
Okay ;) On you go then. Keep your taranis and continue to insult it's capability. The more people that continue to underestimate the ares (or refuse to learn how to use it) the easier it becomes to use it against my victims. Quote:
Or got suckered into web range and demolished with rockets before he could warp off? yea :P
The taranis doesn't even have missile hardpoints.  Go away.
--------------
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:10:00 -
[14]
Or got suckered into web range and demolished with rockets before he could warp off? yea :P
Ares simply dosn't pull its weight compared to similar setup Tarranis, however. And versus the similar slot layout Claw, it gets demolished.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:14:00 -
[15]
i didn't insult the ares, however i do know that id rather have any of the other intys i can fly setup to perform the same role.
i'm not saying there aren't good ares pilots, but i've never encountered one i couldn't kill.
|
Aegis Osiris
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:15:00 -
[16]
I would tend to disagree with that assessment. If the Ares gets in web range of the Taranis, it will be a dead Ares. The reason why is simple: Ares won't be mounting a web in your 20km disruptor setup. Indeed, if the 'ranis pilot maneuvers you into a chase position, and is running the common 125mm rail setup, it will hit much harder then you.
Also, don't forget drone capacity. A pair of tech 2 light drones can add appreciably to damage, for example.
Generally, the Ranis is a better ship. More grid with same CPU, more flexible slot layout, better damage bonus and more turrets, drone capability, more armor, more shields, and higher base cap (though slightly longer recharge)make the Ranis a generally better choice.
I'd love for the Ares to be better, I like the ship, but the stats and performance generally lean towards the Taranis in the majority of situations.
Now, if you were to swap their mid and low slot layouts....
________________________________________________
This thread does not exist
|
Ab Initio
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:18:00 -
[17]
I've never been able to work much damage out of the Ares, to the point where all of the 1vs1s Ive been in using it have been a stale mate (im killing them slowly, they cant hit me, but are scrambled).
In the tackler role I use it for though, Ive had great success. High scan resolution, fast, agile.. Able to be setup to run the MWD / scrambler (I use a 28k) constantly.
|
Farjung
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:20:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Ares:
450 m/s
562.5 m/s after nav V
3656.25 m/s after MWD II
3796.875 m/s after MWD II and accel control V
Taranis:
420m/s
525 m/s after nav V
3412.5 m/s after MWD II
3543.75 m/s after MWD II and accell control V
This maths is incorrect.
Ares with maxed skills and MWD II goes:
(450 * 1.25) * (1 + 5.5 * 1.25 * 1,500,000/1,600,000) = 4,188.0 m/s
Taranis with maxed skills and MWD II goes:
(420 * 1.25) * (1 + 5.5 * 1.25 * 1,500,000/1,575,000) = 3,962.5 m/s
|
Isonkon Serikain
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:22:00 -
[19]
You can fit an ares to 1v1 against other inties... but you may have to give up a scrambler for that. It's also half the price of a taranis...
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:24:00 -
[20]
Quote:
This maths is incorrect.
Good catch, and thanks. Looks like my order of operations was incorrect on my initial calculations.
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:28:00 -
[21]
also those calculations dont factor mass and the ares has slightly higher mass than the ranis.
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Montero
also those calculations dont factor mass and the ares has slightly higher mass than the ranis.
And in the end, the taranis still moves slower  Which is all the math was trying to prove in the first place.
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:32:00 -
[23]
yea i dont disagree. just pointing it out ;)
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:34:00 -
[24]
Cheers then Mont 
What I find interesting and ironic, is that the people here have fond memories of engaging idiotic ares pilots in their taranis and coming out on top. I have the memories of engaging idiotic taranis pilots and coming out on top. Fought one recently that was shield tanking and using projectile weaponry for "better tracking and capacitor". I mean, for gods sake, think outside the box but at least keep it in the toy store 
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:41:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Montero on 28/02/2006 20:40:51
i've actualy never fought an ares in my ranis, only in my claw. it doesn't fair so well with no speed advantage.
|
Sangxianc
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:48:00 -
[26]
I don't understand how the Ares could be better than the Taranis. It's faster, yes, and it has go-faster red, but other than that I'm just not seeing it.
Being honest, I'm naturally disinclined towards it due to my total lack of missile skills. I'm a gunnery and drones man and these split weapon ships upset me. However, I don't see why it would be an advantage as you seem to view it, Malkia. I guess you go long range (which is what would make sense to me), and take Standard missiles, but if I remember right, those don't do so well against unwebbed frigates. Besides, to hit from above 10km with 125mm rails, you'd have to use a low damage ammo, so it would take a long time to kill anything and the Ares don't have a lot of cap to run the MWD + warp disruptor. Also, I think a Taranis would probably do roughly the same damage from the same range.
At close range I'm pretty certain it's outclassed in every way by the Taranis thanks to the third medslot the Taranis has. That said, I've never tried it, perhaps there's some uber setup I don't know. They're not expensive so maybe I'll buy one some time and fly it around a little.
If the Ares became a turret ship, and lost the missile bonus for a turret optimal range bonus, I'd love it. I'm not sure everyone else would, though.
Would one of the Ares advocates post a setup please?
-
Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled. |
Farjung
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Montero
also those calculations dont factor mass and the ares has slightly higher mass than the ranis.
My calcs do ;p.
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Montero
also those calculations dont factor mass and the ares has slightly higher mass than the ranis.
My calcs do ;p.
yup, i was pointing it out in malka's calculations.
|
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 21:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Aegis Osiris
I would tend to disagree with that assessment. If the Ares gets in web range of the Taranis, it will be a dead Ares. The reason why is simple: Ares won't be mounting a web in your 20km disruptor setup. Indeed, if the 'ranis pilot maneuvers you into a chase position, and is running the common 125mm rail setup, it will hit much harder then you.
Also, don't forget drone capacity. A pair of tech 2 light drones can add appreciably to damage, for example.
Generally, the Ranis is a better ship. More grid with same CPU, more flexible slot layout, better damage bonus and more turrets, drone capability, more armor, more shields, and higher base cap (though slightly longer recharge)make the Ranis a generally better choice.
I'd love for the Ares to be better, I like the ship, but the stats and performance generally lean towards the Taranis in the majority of situations.
Now, if you were to swap their mid and low slot layouts....
Why would an Ares set up like this get in web range??
And btw, to whoever said he could even kill cruisers in his taranis, i would hope you could do more than that, my Claw can kill BCs/BSes (players) easily (lil time required for BSes obvoiusly)
|
RedWyvern
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 21:58:00 -
[30]
a topic I've been waiting for =). I love my Ares, and salute Malka Badi'a's efforts to improve its image. Imho, I agree with the notion that if a Taranis gets into range of the Ares, the Ares is dead - period. Many of the failed attempts to use an Ares may come from people taking their 'Taranis' mindset into their Ares - blasters, plate and rocket launchers. This isn't what it is good at.
To this end, I setup my Ares' specifically to outrange and outpace other interceptors - railguns, long range ammo, and standard launchers. 2 Overdrives or nanofibres, and usually two MAPCs too. Eep.
I usually keep either a 20k scrambler, or webber should an opponent get close...it means I rarely get the killmail, though bruising someone's ego by forcing them to disengage from an Ares is worth it. ^^
--------------------------------------------------
Loyalty, Integrity, Honour. |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:25:00 -
[31]
I dont see how an ares would possibly kill a 280 II claw, unless the claw pilot is a complete moron.
New vid: "we're back" |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:27:00 -
[32]
Edited by: LUKEC on 28/02/2006 22:28:13
Originally by: Zysco
I dont see how an ares would possibly kill a 280 II claw, unless the claw pilot is a complete moron.
Lock range = 21km :)
But you have to do some stunts when claw is deep into armor.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
xKillaH
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:28:00 -
[33]
ares is a tech 2 shuttle
Need a Sig? Check Gallery |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:28:00 -
[34]
Quote:
I dont see how an ares would possibly kill a 280 II claw, unless the claw pilot is a complete moron.
Isn't this about the taranis and ares? The claw would win because of it's top base speed above the ares and general capability. The ares is one hell of a 1v1 ship, but that doesn't mean it's an undefeatable win button.
Stay on target, Luke!
--------------
|
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:32:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Zysco on 28/02/2006 22:33:15
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
I dont see how an ares would possibly kill a 280 II claw, unless the claw pilot is a complete moron.
Isn't this about the taranis and ares? The claw would win because of it's top base speed above the ares and general capability. The ares is one hell of a 1v1 ship, but that doesn't mean it's an undefeatable win button.
Stay on target, Luke!
You are saying the ares owns, as luke always says. But IMO every other long range inty would spank an ares. An autoclaw, rocketcrow, or pulsesader would all spank an ares as they are all faster (unless you are fitting nanos on the ares luke you tricky bastard :P). The only inty an ares is better than is a raptor , and a blasteranis.
New vid: "we're back" |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zysco
You are saying the ares owns, as luke always says.
Er. I was talking about Star Wars, Luke Skywalker. Who are you talking about? Is there a starwars reference to ares that I've missed... I don't want to lose my geekhood to confusion.
--------------
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:37:00 -
[37]
Actually not true. Ares is deadly just because of its crap abilities and ppl go after you. I won't say it pwns and that it is ultimate inty etc... But ares and raptor can pwn stuff just because they have so much better lock range.
I prefer taranis in most cases anyway, but sometimes it is nice to kill stuff that ppl think is good only as shuttle.
Hard to kill AFs in it, though.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Originally by: Zysco
You are saying the ares owns, as luke always says.
Er. I was talking about Star Wars, Luke Skywalker. Who are you talking about? Is there a starwars reference to ares that I've missed... I don't want to lose my geekhood to confusion.
Luke = LUKEC. He always claims the ares pwns.
Originally by: LUKEC
Actually not true. Ares is deadly just because of its crap abilities and ppl go after you. I won't say it pwns and that it is ultimate inty etc... But ares and raptor can pwn stuff just because they have so much better lock range.
I prefer taranis in most cases anyway, but sometimes it is nice to kill stuff that ppl think is good only as shuttle.
Hard to kill AFs in it, though.
Well thats always true. Especially given that most people are worthless and will only engage if they think they will win, so the ares is good for that.
New vid: "we're back" |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:57:00 -
[39]
Just few toughts more about ares:
1. it is nice fast inty, with sh1tty fitting but extremly cheap.
2. it would do much better if it would have 3 or even 4 medslots. I know that maya will come and explain me that purpose of inties is to kill frigs, not to tackle, but interdictors are useless in empire and so on. Anyway ares is unable to kill frigs unless in 1vs1 because 2x medslot means only web or scram.
And with current EVE trends, everyone is tryint to warp out as soon as he is taking little dmg. That means no web and no web... well you will die vs. 2 ppl or if game lags a little.
So everyone who thinks that ares & raptor need love, he is correct. But it doesn't mean 50% more dmg or something like that, but different slot layout, maybe some speed in case of raptor etc.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
RedWyvern
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 01:22:00 -
[40]
I've fought a Claw using my Ares before: the fight ended with both of us in structure. Those arties hit hard, but shouldn't clever use of transversal help minimize the their threat?
--------------------------------------------------
Loyalty, Integrity, Honour. |
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 01:44:00 -
[41]
Originally by: RedWyvern
I've fought a Claw using my Ares before: the fight ended with both of us in structure. Those arties hit hard, but shouldn't clever use of transversal help minimize the their threat?
under 10km ur webed, over 10km tracking for small guns isnt a problem
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 09:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: RedWyvern
I've fought a Claw using my Ares before: the fight ended with both of us in structure. Those arties hit hard, but shouldn't clever use of transversal help minimize the their threat?
you'd have to setup the ares to be faster than the claw (most arty claws are pretty nippy), because otherwise you'll find yourself having to chase to keep engaging. then suddenly *pop*
ok. i'm going to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. when im next in empire im going to go and setup a ares. then im gonna come back, find this thread, and give it the slating it deserves 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/Blacknose/sig.jpg
Your sig is to large, please read the forum rules - Ductoris |
Raznarok
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 10:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
my Claw can kill BCs/BSes (players) easily (lil time required for BSes obvoiusly)
More e-peen sir?
|
RedWyvern
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 10:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Montero
you'd have to setup the ares to be faster than the claw (most arty claws are pretty nippy), because otherwise you'll find yourself having to chase to keep engaging. then suddenly *pop*
ok. i'm going to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. when im next in empire im going to go and setup a ares. then im gonna come back, find this thread, and give it the slating it deserves
speed is exactly how I set it up, good for everything except long range Malediction/Crusader. I did pretty well against that claw, but I should probably say that my Ares got pwned half an hour later when I tried to take on a Stiletto and Taranis at the same time. (this was back in Syndicate)
--------------------------------------------------
Loyalty, Integrity, Honour. |
Sangxianc
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:08:00 -
[45]
Originally by: RedWyvern
I usually keep either a 20k scrambler, or webber should an opponent get close...it means I rarely get the killmail, though bruising someone's ego by forcing them to disengage from an Ares is worth it. ^^
I'm not interested in half-kills and bruised egos. If my target gets away, I have failed. This is the problem I consistently get with the Ares. The people who fly it, seem to be very uninterested in actually killing their targets, which is why it surprised me that Malkia loves it so much since I get the feeling that he's a pretty practical guy.
-
Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled. |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:15:00 -
[46]
Quote:
which is why it surprised me that Malkia loves it so much since I get the feeling that he's a pretty practical guy.
I don't understand why people continue to say 'he' and 'guy'. 'practical woman' It's interesting to note the amount of times people preassume gender based on intellect despite even a female avatar.
But my thanks for the kind consideration about practicality. It is less about practicality to me in this thread because I have a part of me that simply enjoys taking ships that people think are horrible and turn them into a beautiful ship with a well defined role. Some people tinker with trade routes, I tinker with misfit ships. ♥
--------------
|
Epsillon
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:30:00 -
[47]
So, in your signature, is that actually you?
_________________________________________________________
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:34:00 -
[48]
Yes ! But perhaps this can be discussed elsewhere, no reason to derail the ares topic
--------------
|
Sangxianc
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
I don't understand why people continue to say 'he' and 'guy'. 'practical woman' It's interesting to note the amount of times people preassume gender based on intellect despite even a female avatar.
It has nothing to do with intellect. It has everything to do with this being an MMORPG. Guy until proven girl, that's just how it goes when there's about 1,000,003 males to each female. I didn't mean to offend.
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
But my thanks for the kind consideration about practicality. It is less about practicality to me in this thread because I have a part of me that simply enjoys taking ships that people think are horrible and turn them into a beautiful ship with a well defined role. Some people tinker with trade routes, I tinker with misfit ships. ♥
Fair enough. I'd probably try it if I wasn't so against training missile skills on this character, simply because it's 1/3 the price of a Taranis. I tend to stick to a small selection of ships and try to learn them inside out, though, and the Taranis is a more efficient vessel in my mind.
Would you ever want it to be changed or do you reckon it's completely on par as it is?
-
Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled. |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:41:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 17:42:31
No offence taken.  Quote:
Would you ever want it to be changed or do you reckon it's completely on par as it is?
That's an interesting question. In one hand I think there is something that could be improved on the ares, but on the other hand I think there is something we are missing that the dev's had in mind. Just like how people treated the destroyers when they first came out (OMFG USELESSLOLOLOLOLOL) and then it later changed to "Used properly, it's a deadly anti-frigate killing machine.". We are missing something in regards to it's role.
We've been pampered by high-powered, hard hitting interceptors that do assault-frigate like damage, something I think needs to be fixed. Perhaps we need to think of the ares in the more traditional interceptor idea? Not nessessarily overwhealming force but able to intercept the path of slower ships and keep them occupied until the primary force can arrive. It should also be a hell of a dogfighter 1v1 against even assault frigates, but certainly not a win button in all situations. What I'm saying, in shorter words, is that we simply have to rethink how we view interceptors. Instead of assault interceptors perhaps we need to think tactical superiority?
--------------
|
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 17:42:31
No offence taken. Quote:
Would you ever want it to be changed or do you reckon it's completely on par as it is?
That's an interesting question. In one hand I think there is something that could be improved on the ares, but on the other hand I think there is something we are missing that the dev's had in mind. Just like how people treated the destroyers when they first came out (OMFG USELESSLOLOLOLOLOL) and then it later changed to "Used properly, it's a deadly anti-frigate killing machine.". We are missing something in regards to it's role.
Nah, destroyers are pretty much worthless except the caldari one as an EW platform.
New vid: "we're back" |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:53:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Nah, destroyers are pretty much worthless except the caldari one as an EW platform.
Okay, I'm going to assume you are joking. Otherwise you are either completely inexperienced with destroyer tactics for point-blank defense of larger ships, or you conform to stereotypes.
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: RedWyvern
a topic I've been waiting for =). I love my Ares, and salute Malka Badi'a's efforts to improve its image. Imho, I agree with the notion that if a Taranis gets into range of the Ares, the Ares is dead - period. Many of the failed attempts to use an Ares may come from people taking their 'Taranis' mindset into their Ares - blasters, plate and rocket launchers. This isn't what it is good at.
To this end, I setup my Ares' specifically to outrange and outpace other interceptors - railguns, long range ammo, and standard launchers. 2 Overdrives or nanofibres, and usually two MAPCs too. Eep.
I usually keep either a 20k scrambler, or webber should an opponent get close...it means I rarely get the killmail, though bruising someone's ego by forcing them to disengage from an Ares is worth it. ^^
having just tested this in ship fit i assume you're using 150s to need the mapc.
also, you're cap even with maxed cap skills will last 20ish seconds. uhh.....
best i could find when playing in quickfit was:
2x125mm t2s, 2 arbalest standards
mwd t2, x5 webber
mapc, mag stab, 2xcpr
cap holds for long enough and okish dmg i suppose. i opted for the web because of mainly cap issues, it rinses alot more than a 20km scram, but also for anti frig, when you arent going to be the fastest every time it is gonna save you.
i just can't see it's advantage over the ranis, that could have a very similar setup yet still have a rep, and have more cap to sustain.
the one thing it has the ranis doesn't is a couple of 100 m/s velocity. i guess you could effectively use one as a pure tackler.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:59:00 -
[54]
Quote:
mag stab
Drop the mag stab, this is an interceptor. Not an assault frigate.
Build the ship for it's role, not for a faster version of the AFs, and most of your problems will be solved.
--------------
|
Epsillon
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:01:00 -
[55]
Sorry, I had no intention of derailing the topic, was just thinking of something else to add to the thread.
So...
If you look at all the other races Interceptors, there is a clear damage dealer and a clear tackler, and these are separated by the higher damage bonus (25% compared to 50%), and the number of midslots. F.ex. Amarr has Crusader for DPS, Malediction for tackling. Minmatar has claw for DPS, Stiletto for tackling (and damn it's good at it, just don't try killing stuff). Caldari is sort of a different story, they both have same Mid and Low slot layout.
However, the Ares suffers from a lack of a clear role, it has only 2 Mid Slots (MWD and Web or Scrambler), and only has a mediocre damage bonus. Although, one could argue that it's balanced because it has another damage bonus tacked onto it's Interceptor skill, however, by this logic, the Malediction would be the king
And to boot, the Taranis and the Crow have the best of both worlds, can tackle with web and a scrambler and do some serious damage. This somewhat unbalances these interceptors when compared to the rest of them.
The Ares should really recieve the Taranis' layout, and vice-versa. Slight cookie cutter, I know. Also, I think the Raptor should get a 4th midslot, since Caldari's speciality is Mid slots. And the Crow should maybe lose a low slot and in order to keep the slot's even, and this would keep in line with Caldari... ideals(?), and lessen it's rediculousness, for Rocket Crows make me weep tears of sorrow.
_________________________________________________________
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:02:00 -
[56]
i guess you could switch that for a nanofibre or another cpr, not really sure what else i'd but there.
and i can't help thinking of intys like beatdown ships. they are 
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Epsillon
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:04:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Okay, I'm going to assume you are joking. Otherwise you are either completely inexperienced with destroyer tactics for point-blank defense of larger ships, or you conform to stereotypes.
QFT.
I have Destroyer V (for Interdictor), and nothing's quite as nice as the alpha strike on a Thrasher against a frigate.
Also, Having over 100km optimal on the Cormorant with Spike S ammo is kinda fun
_________________________________________________________
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:05:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 18:06:01
I'll disagree on the roles being that black and white. Everyone wants to turn the interceptor class into two roles: tackler or damage dealer
I say there are more than that. I can't tell you amount of times when I wished I had an ares in the group that could keep another ship occupied. The ares, because of it's long range and high speed, is a perfect "Stop him from leaving/getting near ship A" without falling into the tackler mindset of "lock him down". Granted it sounds similar, but one is tackling and one is intercepting the engagement paths of enemy ships to get the corpmates into better positions.[qoute]Also, Having over 100km optimal on the Cormorant with Spike S ammo is kinda fun
Jesus.... nicely done 
--------------
|
Valea Silpha
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Nah, destroyers are pretty much worthless except the caldari one as an EW platform.
Okay, I'm going to assume you are joking. Otherwise you are either completely inexperienced with destroyer tactics for point-blank defense of larger ships, or you conform to stereotypes.
Destroyers are good ships... just you need to not get shot at by bigger ships... They can unload a LOT of hurt into frigs very fast indeed.
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 18:08:05
I'll disagree on the roles being that black and white. Everyone wants to turn the interceptor class into two roles: tackler or damage dealer
I say there are more than that. I can't tell you amount of times when I wished I had an ares in the group that could keep another ship occupied. The ares, because of it's long range and high speed, is a perfect "Stop him from leaving/getting near ship A" without falling into the tackler mindset of "lock him down". Granted it sounds similar, but one is tackling and one is intercepting the engagement paths of enemy ships to get the corpmates into better positions. I can't afford to have our tackler always switch targets according to the situation. I may need our tackler interceptor to pin down the apoc so that we can focus fire it but I need an interceptor to keep the nearbye assault frigate from getting too close while we engage the primary target. Quote:
Also, Having over 100km optimal on the Cormorant with Spike S ammo is kinda fun
Jesus.... nicely done
yeah i understand what you're doing there. anti support is an important role, i guess that is just a slightly different playstyle aproach to mine. i would aim to intercept and destroy the target as opposed to inhibit him.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Epsillon
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:24:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Epsillon on 01/03/2006 18:26:26
I understand what you mean about having them not fitting into a cookie cutter, and I agree, it just seemed the easiest thing to do to sort the 'lesser used' ones out.
Personally, I would love to see one of the interceptors turned into a really really fast and very high alpha strike damage ship with long-ish range (25km~?), but have it crafted of basically paper, so it will die very easily if caught.
The Claw is kind of like this, but doesn't have the damage I'm looking for, or the speed to keep it ahead of other ceptors, or the capacity to fit 280mm II's easily. And it doesn't have the slots to make all this possible anyway.
*makes sound effects with his mouth that vaguely resemble a jet flying past, followed by a quick explosion, and then jet flying away again*
Neeeeowwwwwwww BOOOM neeeoooowwwwwww.....
*waves hands around in the air*
_________________________________________________________
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:34:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Epsillon
Also, Having over 100km optimal on the Cormorant with Spike S ammo is kinda fun
yeah - the great LOLorant
though i never had the opportunity to fly an interceptor - i'm keen to see what can be done with an Ares .. never saw this ship beeing used - everyone and his pet use a Taranis ...
now i'm really motivated to toy around with some ships allmost no one likes to fly
@malka: i'm a bit out of date - but was the "experimental bleeder punisher" your last posted setup??
btw - OMG Girlz don't exist on teh Intarweb!!!!1 ... 
_________________________________________
Originally by: Skellibjalla
Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:37:00 -
[63]
Quote:
i'm a bit out of date - but was the "experimental bleeder punisher" your last posted setup??
Yes, that is the last setup I've posted publically. Once my new website is up and running I'll be posting the majority of my setup ideas and theories on the website for people to discuss, versus posting it here and waiting for the cookie-cutter trolls to destroy the thread.
Interesting question though, why do you ask?
--------------
|
Friedrick Psitalon
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:46:00 -
[64]
Heh, my newbie corporation is 66% female at the moment with 9 members. Maybe it's my background in education; I tend to expect women behind the intellect more than men. ::snicker::
Forgive the resident frequent-posting-noob here, but I think I'm going to be following the lead of loving ill-regarded ships. I'm still doing nothing but PvE at the moment, but the Alpha-Strike concept something I've gained a great appreciation for. I was unfortunately forced into PvP last night by a Tristan pilot and I warned him that he was about to go squish, and the smack flowed... so he blinked out. I was a little astounded how quickly he disappeared. Guess my overspecialization in fighter skills at the cost of Ship Command skills must be helping a little. Is that a bad idea? Cranking Controlled Bursts/Rapid Fire/Sharpshooter/etc while saving money and staying in a Destroyer? Just seemed like if I wanted to maxmize the 8 turrets, I ought to be training in those skills, not ship ones.
Back to the Ares/Taranis thing - it seems like both of these ships are despised for PvE. Is this largely because speed (and therefore transversal velocity)is far less effective when flying across from one vessel, than when trying to zoom through a pack where you're likely to be flying straight towards at least one or more of them? I'm trying to understand exactly why Interceptors are viewed so poorly for PvE as opposed to the Assault Frigates, to decide if I want to battle the problem with my own underdog style or not.
/em The frequent-posting-rookie slinks back off, hoping he won't get laughed at amongst this crew of veterans.
_______________________________________________
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master." - Comissioner Previn Lal, Alpha Centauri |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:49:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 01/03/2006 18:55:00
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Once my new website is up and running I'll be posting the majority of my setup ideas and theories on the website for people to discuss, versus posting it here and waiting for the cookie-cutter trolls to destroy the thread.
Interesting question though, why do you ask?
I'm waiting for you website to get online
@Friedrick Psitalon: Imo the main problem is ... you can't tank (not that it is essential) but sometimes you can be hit real hard even by those bad aiming bs ... and antifrigweaponry can be sometimes real bad ... but have to say - ninja hunting in 0.0 is fun ... flying around in a rifter with t1 gear - searching the belts for proper spawns (no cruiser/BC - but BS with support of frigs and destroyers) zipping around the belt and killing the small stuff ... doesn't earn you much money or rewards you with good loot - but it's pure fun
_________________________________________
Originally by: Skellibjalla
Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:57:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Zysco on 01/03/2006 19:00:56
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Nah, destroyers are pretty much worthless except the caldari one as an EW platform.
Okay, I'm going to assume you are joking. Otherwise you are either completely inexperienced with destroyer tactics for point-blank defense of larger ships, or you conform to stereotypes.
Destys are slightly less worthless than AFs, because they suck just as bad, but at least cost less. I've fought both destys and AFs 1v2 in my claw, and the AFs generally faired better cause they have less sig than the destys, but they still suck either way since 1 AF costs the same as about 15 destys.
And no offense, but don't you belt pirate in empire? I mean I've got great respect for someone who still does that, but at the same time I wouldn't take your word on anything ship-setup wise. You aren't exactly fighting the cream of the crop in empire belts.
Granted, a 280 II thrasher does nice damage, but it has the sig of basically a cruiser and the hitpoints of a frig. Its got all the disadvantages of a cruiser (sig, speed) without the advantages (hitpoints, more slots).
New vid: "we're back" |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:15:00 -
[67]
Quote:
I wouldn't take your word on anything ship-setup wise. You aren't exactly fighting the cream of the crop in empire belts.
I'm fighting whatever is thrown at me. When it's rookies in belts I fit accordingly. When it's a bait-trap from Knights of the Southerncross, I fit for out-and-out cream-of-the-crop removing tactics. Save your wisdom for someone else, I resort to adaptability according to situation. And because of that, each ship has a purpose and role to me.
--------------
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:20:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/03/2006 19:25:38
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/03/2006 19:20:59
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Or got suckered into web range and demolished with rockets before he could warp off? yea :P
The taranis doesn't even have missile hardpoints. Go away.
I was flying an ARES. I killed a TARRANIS.
Sigh.
And problem with the long range setup is, afaik, the Raptor does it better.
The Raptor has a range bonus, the Ares tracking. Yes the are speed issues with the Raptor, but it shield tanks so dosn't have to sacrifice a low for that.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
I wouldn't take your word on anything ship-setup wise. You aren't exactly fighting the cream of the crop in empire belts.
I'm fighting whatever is thrown at me. When it's rookies in belts I fit accordingly. When it's a bait-trap from Knights of the Southerncross, I fit for out-and-out cream-of-the-crop removing tactics. Save your wisdom for someone else, I resort to adaptability according to situation. And because of that, each ship has a purpose and role to me.
Thanks for proving my point.
New vid: "we're back" |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:28:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Thanks for proving my point.
Okay, my respect for you just dropped, dramatically.
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:31:00 -
[71]
witn any luck i'll be able to grab an ares tonight and give it a go. i shall let you know how it goes... my expectations aren't high.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Friedrick Psitalon
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:34:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
And about gunnery/ship command skills ... there can't be anything bad about staying in the gunnery skills ... 'cuz - a.) you will need them sooner or later and b.) as long as you have fun nothing is wrong ... if you enjoy flying around with your destroyer - why not specialize on it?
I do like my destroyer, don't get me wrong (and I'd better, since I've been buying a lot of BPs to help jump-start the corporation, since we have so many miners producing minerals, gah, no cash for ships) but I do sometimes wish I could increase the speed a bit. No tractor beam, no afterburner, no MWD.... takes forever to grab loot containers, and oy, do I need to make sure to pick them up. It's enough for me to want to switch from heavy-rail to heavy-blaster, just to cut down on loot-gathering time. Then the slow speed/big sig becomes an issue though.
::plods off another 35km to pick up his Alpha-Striked cargo::
I really need to buy less BPs. Any ideas on how I can speed the thing up?
Just how fast does an Ares come apart when a bigger ship gets ahold of it, anyhow? Are we talking "Full health" to "You're dead" in a single stroke, or is there time to panic and run for the high country if you're not feeling lucky after the first hit?
_______________________________________________
Never fear going out on a limb; it is there that you will find the fruit. - Friedrick, resident noob poster |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:35:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Montero
witn any luck i'll be able to grab an ares tonight and give it a go. i shall let you know how it goes... my expectations aren't high.
Remember to fit it not for tackling or damage, but for interception. The ares isn't a solo ship but an interception supporting ship to keep other ships away from the primary fleet until focus fire can be reset to a secondary target.
Let me know
--------------
|
KilROCK
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:47:00 -
[74]
OH great bible of knowledge. Everytime a ship is described as a crap ship, Malka turns it in a 3 pages of non-stop babbling.
Seriously, Do you ever quit talking in real life or it's the same as your typing?
There will always be someone to come and debate the fact a ship can do something useful. I just say, Another ship does it better, so screw the rest that can 'do it' on occasions.
Punisher with cap relays to ares, your inability to fly a rifter properly... I think you're on a crusade to use every underrated ship in the game...
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:49:00 -
[75]
lol, kill, I've always seen you as the Jerry SPringer version of Ginger Magician. Cute, in a drunken sort of way.
For someone who makes a lot of useless setups, people seem to enjoy using them and to great results.
--------------
|
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:02:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
lol, kill, I've always seen you as the Jerry SPringer version of Ginger Magician. Cute, in a drunken sort of way.
For someone who makes a lot of useless setups, people seem to enjoy using them and to great results.
Lets not turn this into a flamefest, but what setup have you even come up with? A 3 cap relay punisher?
You are a boon to the community in that you help a lot of noobs see the light, both by killing them and by showing that you can pirate in a t1 frig, and I'm glad that your setup seems to work killing cruisers with terrible setups in empire low sec belts, but seriously, a 3 cap relay punisher is not a setup to be proud of.
New vid: "we're back" |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:15:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 20:25:56
Then I guess I take all the convos I've had with people who use my ideas (most not posted on the forums for the reasons above), all the eve mails, and all the kill mails, and simply take my horrible setups elsewhere. I mean, a punisher with three cap relays, that's simply blasphamey! No, wait... pre-RMR the setup needed energized plating because it had a bonus to capacitor and thus needed more resistances. Now it has the resistances by default but needs the relays for capacitor.
Hm, a punisher that can tank not only missiles but a medium nos? No, that's a completely useless idea. Let's go Burn Eden and fit three WCS instead.
Cheers
--------------
|
RedWyvern
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Montero
having just tested this in ship fit i assume you're using 150s to need the mapc.
also, you're cap even with maxed cap skills will last 20ish seconds. uhh.....
cap has always been an issue, but I've managed fine so far, it just takes a little micromanagement with the guns - missiles will do plenty dps on their own. Oh, and don't bother with the 20k scrambler until your opponent realises they're in trouble.
But hey, my setups aren't perfect by any means. If anyone wants to duel with me out in ¯¯ space, that'd be great - not like it costs much to replace an Ares. ;)
--------------------------------------------------
Loyalty, Integrity, Honour. |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:35:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 20:25:56
Then I guess I take all the convos I've had with people who use my ideas (most not posted on the forums for the reasons above), all the eve mails, and all the kill mails, and simply take my horrible setups elsewhere. I mean, a punisher with three cap relays, that's simply blasphamey! No, wait... pre-RMR the setup needed energized plating because it had a bonus to capacitor and thus needed more resistances. Now it has the resistances by default but needs the relays for capacitor.
Hm, a punisher that can tank not only missiles but a medium nos? No, that's a completely useless idea. Let's go Burn Eden and fit three WCS instead.
Cheers
Like I said, its effective for what you do. You don't really run into pvp fitted ships, and the most dangerous things you get hit with are med nos and heavy missiles.
And burn eden fits 4 stabs and an armor rep
New vid: "we're back" |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:45:00 -
[80]
Okay, I'll bite once more because if there is any time to clearup why I fly what I fly, now would be the time.
Do I fight heavily-fitted PvP ships? Oh yes, many more times than I can remember. Are those the common ship-types found in EVE? No. And that is the point. As a pirate, not a duelist, I have to fit according to the majority status of EVE pilots. Some of the belt players really have a wonderful grasp of EVE PvP and thus I have to fly something a little stronger or fit a little differently. But again, those people are not the majority pilots in EVE.
My tactics are used exactally like my ship: variable depending upon the region, type of piracy, and possible knowledge of my victim. The few ships I've posted publically were posted publically because they are meant to be used in generalist situations that cover the majority of PvP issues in EVE. While the 3 relay punisher is certainly an odd setup, it holds it's own against even PvP experienced players. It excells greatly at unexperienced PvP players (even battlecruisers) because that is what the public release of my punisher is expecting. What good is posting a public setup that explains it's use in only a singular situation that rookie pirates may or may not engage?
By teaching the basics and exploiting the weaknesses of the majority tactics of EVE pilots, we are rubbing out that weakness in the EVE community.
That is my unspoken, until now, goal of being a pirate in EVE. By pointing at the weaknesses in the EVE community (piloting wise) and exploiting it painfully, the community steps up and learns how to defend it. As they defend it and learn the tactics I'm using (even if it's a temporary tactic) then the community itself is brought up a notch in tactical capability. Those who are engaged by me almost always receive a polite convo with a few pointers, explainations, and ideas. I'm a pirate and a teacher, using both to accomplish my goal.
I don't shy away from PvP, even 0.0 alliance PvP, but it isn't something that will help the community on a large scale... yet. I've got spiral notebooks full of fleet tactic ideas ranging from ten people to one hundred people that will need testing and verification. But not yet.
It's a strange goal, but it's why I'm here. Help the community by showing them how to eliminate their weaknesses.
--------------
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:50:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Empire belts victories... don't prove nothing.
I won't go in statistics.
Okay, you missed the entire point and fail at life.
--------------
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:50:00 -
[82]
Empire belts victories... don't prove nothing.
I won't go in statistics.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:56:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Quote:
Empire belts victories... don't prove nothing.
I won't go in statistics.
Okay, you missed the entire point and fail at life.
True. I hope you won't.
Oh and i lied in my 2 statements.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Ginger Magician
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:30:00 -
[84]
by makai something (damn silly name)
"Do I fight heavily-fitted PvP ships?"
Answer
No.U refused to fight me at 3v1 odds in your favour and ran away and hid at safe spots and stations.
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:33:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 01/03/2006 21:34:29
Quote:
No.U refused to fight me at 3v1 odds in your favour and ran away and hid at safe spots and stations.
I do enjoy fighting heavily PvP fitted ships.
You aren't a heavily fitted PVPer ginger. You use a 425mm railgun megathron with 4 WCSs for station/gate camps. The reason we didn't engage you is because your 160k gatecamp was crafted using a non-warpable point without a MWD to origonally bookmark the location. There isn't even a planet we could have warped to and then redirected our warp 100k to the gate. It was a good, hand crafted bookmark for your sniping position.
There is a difference between fighting a PvP engagement and attempting to engage a WCS fitted megathron that is sitting in a position we can't easily counter-warp to. Don't expect people to drop to your level of thinking when it comes to tactics and then pout when they retain more of a sense of survival than your WCS can carry.
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:40:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
by makai something (damn silly name)
dude, you're called Ginger Magician....
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:44:00 -
[87]
Malka Is Hebrew for 'queen' and Badi'a is old arabic for 'Unprecedented'. My name is associated with my RP for the backstory of my character, specifically due to Amarrian roots who have a great slant of aramaic and arabic background in their naming conventions.
Pointless fact #151653
--------------
|
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:50:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Raznarok
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
my Claw can kill BCs/BSes (players) easily (lil time required for BSes obvoiusly)
More e-peen sir?
Of course! But it is true...
Anyway, to the people who say 280 Claw would pwn the Ares, I must dissagree...
A little bit ago I was stationary in my Stabber, when one of my corp m8s came out in his 280 Claw (T2s of course) and began shooting me. Or rather, shooting AT me. Over the course of 2 minutes he didnt even hit me.
I dont fear the 280 anymore on a Claw, rofl.
Anyways, since I dont have Gallente frig 5, I am currently fitting out and soon will be trying out a 2x 250/2x Launcher Claw that is setup a lot like the Ares in question is, so I'll see how that works :)
Too bad the Claw doesnt get a missle damage bonus :(
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:52:00 -
[89]
He was missing you? Stationary?  What happened?
--------------
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:53:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Montero on 01/03/2006 21:53:27
i'd imagine he orbited at speed.
edit: and please don't do that to the claw. please.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:54:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Zysco on 01/03/2006 21:54:41
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Originally by: Raznarok
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
my Claw can kill BCs/BSes (players) easily (lil time required for BSes obvoiusly)
More e-peen sir?
Of course! But it is true...
Anyway, to the people who say 280 Claw would pwn the Ares, I must dissagree...
A little bit ago I was stationary in my Stabber, when one of my corp m8s came out in his 280 Claw (T2s of course) and began shooting me. Or rather, shooting AT me. Over the course of 2 minutes he didnt even hit me.
I dont fear the 280 anymore on a Claw, rofl.
Anyways, since I dont have Gallente frig 5, I am currently fitting out and soon will be trying out a 2x 250/2x Launcher Claw that is setup a lot like the Ares in question is, so I'll see how that works :)
Too bad the Claw doesnt get a missle damage bonus :(
Just lol, i dont know how else to respond besides lol. Your corpmate is terrible, and please tell me where you operate with a 250 II/2 launcher claw so I can come get some free mods (to recycle, as 250 IIs are so crap i dont even want them).
New vid: "we're back" |
Ikvar
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 21:56:00 -
[92]
The spikey bits on the 'Ranis are better than the ones on the Ares, therefore Taranis = win.
Originally by: Avon
I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:02:00 -
[93]
Quote:
The spikey bits on the 'Ranis are better than the ones on the Ares, therefore Taranis = win.
Case closed. I have to agree 100% on this. The taranis looks like a ninja and ares looks like a rejected version of Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer.
--------------
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:03:00 -
[94]
Just thought i'd add my little bit to this pointless thread:
Killing another Frigate/Interceptor 1v1 in an Ares because the other side underestimated the Ares does not mean the Ares is good. Just means there's alot of stupid Frigate/Interceptor pilots.
/Elve |
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:03:00 -
[95]
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 01/03/2006 22:04:49
I dont see how even with the lower transversal of an inty orbitting the orbitting Claw or however you want to do it (the claw would HAVE to be at speed) wouldnt be enough to make up for the bad tracking and the TINY sig compared to the stabber.
Oh and zysco you're so leet, plz dnt hrt me!! :( :(
And btw, this m8 has been playing longer than most of you, Minmatar the whole time, I doubt its a skill/skillz issue.
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:15:00 -
[96]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 01/03/2006 22:04:49
I dont see how even with the lower transversal of an inty orbitting the orbitting Claw or however you want to do it (the claw would HAVE to be at speed) wouldnt be enough to make up for the bad tracking and the TINY sig compared to the stabber.
Oh and zysco you're so leet, plz dnt hrt me!! :( :(
And btw, this m8 has been playing longer than most of you, Minmatar the whole time, I doubt its a skill/skillz issue.
definatly sounds like a skillz issue....
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:19:00 -
[97]
Not really, because no matter how good you are you're still orbitting at 15km =p
But the point is if it cant even hit a cruiser (all be it with high transversal) with Tech 2 guns and a tracking mod, then I have a hard time believing it could hurt an unwebbed Inty at any range
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:31:00 -
[98]
There's 'Skills' and there's 'Skill'. This guy probably lacks the second.
/Elve |
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:32:00 -
[99]
and talent.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:34:00 -
[100]
I can see Orange's point though. Granted the pilot should have stopped a speed orbit and slowed to their natural velocity to get hits, but a 250/280 claw trying to hit an interceptor?
Would it even make sense to have a 250/280 claw try and engage an interceptor, even webbed?
--------------
|
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:34:00 -
[101]
Like i said, personal skill isnt an issue, and he's played for 3 years, only flying Minmatar, i doubt its lack of SP.
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:38:00 -
[102]
250 claws are always a bad move, with the 280 claw for anti frig you have to engineer the fight so that the tracking isn't so much of an issue. i'm not particularly a fan of the 280 claw for frig v frig myself, but i know people who have had alot of success with it.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 00:05:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Just means there's alot of stupid Frigate/Interceptor pilots.
From a practical point of view - isn't this enough?? To evaluate a ship from a best/worst case scenario might be good in theory ... but it's hard to find a opponent who know what he does - especially fitting wise. And sometimes even the weirdest ideas can be really practicabel. Cause there are too many people who fit predictabel standard fitting (sometimes not even those)
I only say - damage control on frig and structure tank ... even if you wouldn't believe me - it works just fine
_________________________________________
Originally by: Skellibjalla
Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Originally by: Tool - Hush
I can't say what I want to,even if I'm not serious. |
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 00:09:00 -
[104]
250s have the same tracking as 125 rails, so they should be just as accurate, and for the people sayng they suck, this setup would rely more on missles, so regaurdless of them doing less damage than 280s, I'd rather be doing SOME additional damage.
|
Montero
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 00:12:00 -
[105]
250s do less damage than any other gun in eve.
i can't see why you'd be willing to disregard a 50% damage bonus to use missiles as the main weapon? get a crow or something.
now leave my sig alone damn ISD |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 01:56:00 -
[106]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
250s have the same tracking as 125 rails, so they should be just as accurate, and for the people sayng they suck, this setup would rely more on missles, so regaurdless of them doing less damage than 280s, I'd rather be doing SOME additional damage.
The suck because they do terrible damage. Tracking shouldnt be an issue.
New vid: "we're back" |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 10:41:00 -
[107]
Tracking of 280mm arty is similar to 150mm rail.(0.066 vs 0.07) And i don't have too much issues hitting stuff with 150mm rails. Just takes some skill at flying ship.
Ofc. if you think you will hit something orbiting with mwd... moon or station maybe.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 18:36:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Zysco on 02/03/2006 18:36:45
Originally by: LUKEC
Tracking of 280mm arty is similar to 150mm rail.(0.066 vs 0.07) And i don't have too much issues hitting stuff with 150mm rails. Just takes some skill at flying ship.
Ofc. if you think you will hit something orbiting with mwd... moon or station maybe.
^^^^^^^^^
I dont think some people yet understand what transversal is
New vid: "we're back" |
Riflemandodd
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 00:02:00 -
[109]
i might have misunderstood the topic but isnt it which is the better in general of the two intys instead of which would kill the other?
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 00:12:00 -
[110]
The Ares is a terrible ship. Sure you can kill things with it, but you might as well be using a tech 1 frigate. Hell, in some cases tech 1 frigates are far superior to the Ares. Its an unpopular ship because of its horrible powergrid. If you could fit 2x150mm, 2x standard launchers, a mwd and a rep.. you might have something.
Frig piloting comes to maneuvering and player skills rather than setup, which means a good Ares pilot will be able to pull off victories. But against a good <anything else> pilot, its almost always at a disadvantage. But don't get me wrong, the Ares being a terrible ship is only by comparison to the other interceptors.. which are in my opinion, do stupid amounts of damage. Ares doesn't need boosting, its everything else that needs nerfing.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Sarmaul
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 00:13:00 -
[111]
a former corpmate could do evil things with an ares - tracking disruptor 4tw :)
|
Kai Lae
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 01:03:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Kai Lae on 03/03/2006 01:04:05
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The Ares is a terrible ship. Sure you can kill things with it, but you might as well be using a tech 1 frigate. Hell, in some cases tech 1 frigates are far superior to the Ares. Its an unpopular ship because of its horrible powergrid. If you could fit 2x150mm, 2x standard launchers, a mwd and a rep.. you might have something.
This is the real problem with the Ares, as well as the raptor. Both of these ships have the same CPU as the other inty in their race, but have 5 less grid. In the case of the raptor this makes no sense at all since it has the same slot layout, but the ares suffers as well because the most intensive CPU items are usually mid slot items. Both of these ships need more grid (raptor needs more turret slots as well). Originally I thought that it might be best off with the same grid and CPU as the crusader/claw (the ares that is), but after looking at it again I wonder if the same grid and CPU of the taranis would be useful as well. The one thing that the Ares has for it is that it's high CPU when compared against other interceptors with it's slot configuration allows the easy fitting of multiple weapons upgrade modules. With just a bit more grid and advanced weapons upgrades it would be possible to fit 2x neutron II, 2x rocket II, MWD, scrammer, MAPC, MFS II, CPR and SAR II - that combined with the higher speed (impulse, and 13.5 AU/sec warp) might give it something of a niche. There is a second problem with the ares, and that is simply put gallente pilots have crap missile skills which really are a must for this ship.
As DC notes it might be much better to set it up as a long range hitter but currently you need 2 MAPC to do this unless you want to mount 75mm II - which as a weapon goes isn't too bad but the range is a bit short for the envisioned role. Really not only does CCP need to look at the assault frigates but the raptor and ares need a second look by CCP, as they seemingly both came pre-nerfed and have never been re-adressed.
|
Zolofine
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 01:37:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Yes ! But perhaps this can be discussed elsewhere, no reason to derail the ares topic
You've done it now... better call the FBI in advance
You may have noticed that there are many guys playing female avatars, therefor everyone is adressed as he, him, that guy, dude, man and a lot of other more exotic terms as well. just FYI.
There are imho a number of reasons why the Ares is so unpopular. Fact of the matter is that there is only one situation where you could beat a Taranis. You get him at 15-19 km and keep him there for the duration of the fight disregarding the fact that the Ranis is not webbed which will make it a challenge all by itself (unless the pilot is numb and just sits there). But there are many situation in which a Ranis can own an Ares. So overall it's the better interceptor, hence it's more popular.
Secondly... A lot of gallente pilots don't like the half gun half missiles as a lot gallente pilots have absolutly no missile skills whatsoever. |
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 02:18:00 -
[114]
FYI to all saying 250s utterly suck:
3 250s (with the Claws 50% damage bonus) and 1 standard launcher does more DPS AND more DoT than 3 280s with the 50% bonus, not to mention you have an extra low slot because you dont need an MAPC.
|
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 02:19:00 -
[115]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
FYI to all saying 250s utterly suck:
3 250s (with the Claws 50% damage bonus) and 1 standard launcher does more DPS AND more DoT than 3 280s with the 50% bonus, not to mention you have an extra low slot because you dont need an MAPC.
Great. They still suck.
New vid: "we're back" |
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 02:25:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Zysco
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
FYI to all saying 250s utterly suck:
3 250s (with the Claws 50% damage bonus) and 1 standard launcher does more DPS AND more DoT than 3 280s with the 50% bonus, not to mention you have an extra low slot because you dont need an MAPC.
Great. They still suck.
Pray tell why? They do more damage, have basically equal range, easier fitting, better tracking, larger clips, and leave you with a slot to put a Gyro II in
|
Sarmaul
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 09:03:00 -
[117]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Originally by: Zysco
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
FYI to all saying 250s utterly suck:
3 250s (with the Claws 50% damage bonus) and 1 standard launcher does more DPS AND more DoT than 3 280s with the 50% bonus, not to mention you have an extra low slot because you dont need an MAPC.
Great. They still suck.
Pray tell why? They do more damage, have basically equal range, easier fitting, better tracking, larger clips, and leave you with a slot to put a Gyro II in
just because a gun is useful on a single ship doesn't stop if from sucking on the other 10+ frigates that can use them.
______________________________________________
Hurrah I'm Unbanned \o/ |
Tjarish
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.09.09 23:02:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Epsillon
Edited by: Epsillon on 01/03/2006 18:26:26
I understand what you mean about having them not fitting into a cookie cutter, and I agree, it just seemed the easiest thing to do to sort the 'lesser used' ones out.
Personally, I would love to see one of the interceptors turned into a really really fast and very high alpha strike damage ship with long-ish range (25km~?), but have it crafted of basically paper, so it will die very easily if caught.
The Claw is kind of like this, but doesn't have the damage I'm looking for, or the speed to keep it ahead of other ceptors, or the capacity to fit 280mm II's easily. And it doesn't have the slots to make all this possible anyway.
*makes sound effects with his mouth that vaguely resemble a jet flying past, followed by a quick explosion, and then jet flying away again*
Neeeeowwwwwwww BOOOM neeeoooowwwwwww.....
*waves hands around in the air*
??? you have misundestod the hole point about a intercepter..
the point is not a long range super damaging ship thats hard too hit but die in one shot...
ow.. nvm waste of time to say more. right?
______________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow
man is either a fool or a coward.
Whoever cannot take
care of imself without that law is both. |
Callistus
Coreli Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.09.09 23:49:00 -
[119]
Welcome to 6 months ago.
--------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.09.09 23:55:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Just thought i'd add my little bit to this pointless thread:
Killing another Frigate/Interceptor 1v1 in an Ares because the other side underestimated the Ares does not mean the Ares is good. Just means there's alot of stupid Frigate/Interceptor pilots.
QFT. Just cos I killed a Tarranis in an Ares means that the Tarranis screwed up. Course I then tried doing another Claw-type thing in it (don't remember the specifics) and died.
//Maya |
ElCoCo
Gallente
KIA Corp
|
Posted - 2006.09.10 01:18:00 -
[121]
Ares is crap, even though I use it quite a lot, it's only when I'm the tackler and want to stay outside nos range. Makes a cheap ceptor although I think I'd use a stabber instead lol.
Needs powergrid and a bit of cap.
I mean c'mon.... 2 electron Tech2, 2 rocketlaunchers t2, mwd2, scrambler, damage control, t2 armor rep.... er no wait, not enough grid with those fricking small weapons
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.09.10 05:26:00 -
[122]
Originally by: KilROCK
Punisher with cap relays to ares, your inability to fly a rifter properly... I think you're on a crusade to use every underrated ship in the game...
There are worse goals.
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.09.10 05:31:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
by makai something (damn silly name)
"Do I fight heavily-fitted PvP ships?"
Answer
No.U refused to fight me at 3v1 odds in your favour and ran away and hid at safe spots and stations.
Honestly, a sniper pilot calling anyone else a coward is irony at its best.
|
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.09.10 06:53:00 -
[124]
I can honestly not understand why this thred ever made it into the 5th page because people are arguing FOR the Ares.
Taranis.
+ Very high damage
+ Extra drone damage capability
+ Mid slots to web and scramble
+ Utility slot for when they fix the Auto-targeter
- Slightly slower than avarage
RP High-Gallente ship design
Ares.
+ Can use defenders
0 Avarage speed
- Very low powergrid
- Very low damage
- Mid slots disallow web and scrambler combos
RP Non-Gallente ship design
As you can see, there is nothing speaking for the Ares and everything speaking for the Taranis. To get killed by an Ares when flying a Taranis you must either make severe misstakes or have extremely low skills in comparison. Had the Tristan had higher base speed, it would've been preferable to the Ares!
Killing one ship in 1v1 is not proof. Run the scenario 1,000 times with several different pilots and you are approaching statistical proof. Then add in that a 1v1 tell less than half the tale about a ship.
Ares. Is. The. Worst. Interceptor. Of ALL Interceptors!
But it's pretty.
-
Base insurance payout: 40% of ship base price
Platinum cost: 33% of ship base price
Platinum payout: 100% of ship base price
Ship base prices can be found in CCP's Item Database. |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.09.10 09:25:00 -
[125]
Originally by: LUKEC
So everyone who thinks that ares & raptor need love, he is correct. But it doesn't mean 50% more dmg or something like that, but different slot layout, maybe some speed in case of raptor etc.
I think the Ares just needs more grid, so it could fit proper weapons without a MAPC or two. 
|
DenBrown
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 10:03:00 -
[126]
READ THIS!
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |