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Tymetrious Nor
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Posted - 2006.03.01 00:45:00 -
[1]
lol, I just finished a post with nice mathmatics however, I was logged out somewhere along the way. Anyhow, from my figures the active hardner atributes from the EM shield skill which is 3% is being applied to the passive resist hardners and it should be 5%. My Raven base EM shield is (0%) + T2 Passive (37.5%)+ lvl 4 skill at 5% should yield a total resist of 49%.
However, the ship reports 45% which if you use the above and 3% instead of 5% and a skill of 4..yeilds 45%
Can people confirm this....
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.03.01 01:36:00 -
[2]
37.5 * (1 + (.05 * 4)) = 37.5 * 1.2 = 45
Sounds like it's working perfectly.
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Tymetrious Nor
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Posted - 2006.03.01 14:47:00 -
[3]
I hope that isn't how they figure the ratio's...from your figures that would be 20% of the 37.5%..which is in correct...the math should be a follows....
example:
This is for reference as the passive skills need an item to work but for this illustration we will not use a hardener.
We have figure each skill level separate you can't stack them up and say its 20% as its a cumulative figure thus..
Base resistance (br)= 0%
skill LVL (4) at 5% per/lvl
((100 - br) * 1.05) - (100 - br) = new base resistance br = 5 (iteration 1)
((100 - 5) * 1.05) - (100 - 5) = 4.75 this added to br = 9.75 (iteration 2)
((100 - 9.75) * 1.05) - (100 - 9.75) = 4.51 added to br = 14.26 (iteration 3)
((100 - 14.26) * 1.05) - (100 - 14.26) = 4.29 added to br = 18.55 (iteration 4)
((100 - 18.55) * 1.05) - (100 - 18.55) = 4.07 added to br = 22.62 (iteration 5)
so as you can see the closer we are to 100% the smaller the effect a percent has
or in other words if the ship had 30% base and we had a hardener that did 50%, then
the effect would be 50% of the difference (100-30) = 70 * .5 = 35% ....
So the new base is (30% + 35%) = 65%
once again, can someone look at there ships and confirm if this holds true to there setups
or perhaps with the passive armor skills.. I contend that the passive skill is getting the same attributes as an active hardener that is turned off.
The point is that if a person trains these skills and the skill says 5% to passive then
It should work as advertised
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.03.01 14:51:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tymetrious Nor
We have figure each skill level separate you can't stack them up and say its 20% as its a cumulative figure thus..
The only problem with that being that Eve doesn't stack up a skill's bonuses like that. For a skill, it's FINAL BONUS = LEVEL * PER LEVEL BONUS. For between two different skills/mods/whatever, then you DO multiply them. So two 20% bonuses would stack to a 44% bonus, for instance. But that has to be from two different sources, NOT from two levels in one skill.
Originally by: Tymetrious Nor
It should work as advertised
It does work as advertisesd. It gives a 5% per level bonus to what the resistance amplifier gives.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.03.01 15:16:00 -
[5]
This has puzzled me a bit as well. If someone could help point out how some of the stacking works I would very much appreciate it.
For armor tanking I currently have all the passive skills at 3, and am debating taking them all to 4. What i am having trouble calculating is how the skills stack with each passive mod put on my ship.
For example, it is quite common to use 2 t2 Energized Adaptive Nanos, a passive kinetic and a passive thermal, but I am not sure how the passive skills stack on each one and then with each other.
T2 Adaptive Nano = base 20% to all
Passive T1 = base 32.5%
Can someone demonstrate how these stack with 15% passive skills so I can determine if its worth training the passives to lvl 4 respectively?
Thanks!
Nyxus
Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
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Tymetrious Nor
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Posted - 2006.03.01 16:33:00 -
[6]
So from what your saying.. ôIt does work as advertisesd. It gives a 5% per level bonus to what the resistance amplifier gives.ö
This is from the skill itself-
ôTo active shield hardeners: 3% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistance when the modules are not active
To passive shield hardeners: 5% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistanceö
Ok, lets assume at lvl(4) itÆs a full 20% ie 5%/lvl
Raven EM shield resist base value = 0% (BR)
Passive T2 resistance = 37.5%
Skill bonus = 20%
BR = (100 û BR) + 37.5 (Hardener)
BR now = 37.5%
BR = ((100 û BR) * .20 ) + BR
BR now = 50%
Ok, lets assume at lvl(4) itÆs a full 12% ie 3%/lvl
Raven EM shield resist base value = 0% (BR)
Passive T2 resistance = 37.5%
Skill bonus = 12%
BR = (100 û BR) + 37.5 (Hardener)
BR now = 37.5%
BR = ((100 û BR) * .12 ) + BR
BR now = 45%
Since I have a Passive on the ship.. I should be at 50% not at 45%
plz advise
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.03.01 16:43:00 -
[7]
So now you're saying that each 37.5% module you put on should get a free 20% module as well? No thanks.
While the description isn't WORDED the best way (the 3% is, in my understanding, flat for a hardener when the hardener isn't on, since their base is only 1% when inactive. Yet this bonus gets the same wording as the resistance amplifier bonus) it is working as intended, and the text is correct as well.
Like I said, you get a bonus of 20% of 37.5% TO THAT MODULE, not a bonus of 20% of what's left of 100% minus 37.5%. What you're doing is trying to twist things into your favor, while arguing that the skill "isn't working."
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.03.01 16:51:00 -
[8]
ok here is how i do the math... its less fancy but it always works when i am calculating fittings toss the modual on that gives you a 37.5% increase now multiply it bye 1.20 that gives you your new resistances (this is a 20% increase to the resistances)
so 37.5 * 1.20 = 45
Fairly simple... i think you are just over complicating the math. if you need to find any increase just take what you allready have and multiply bye 1.(%resistance) so if you have 55 units of powergrid and increase bye 15% go 55 * 1.15 = 63.25.
anyways the skill and modual work, and they work as advertised just do your math correct.
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tymetrious Nor
I hope that isn't how they figure the ratio's...from your figures that would be 20% of the 37.5%..which is in correct...the math should be a follows...
That is entirely correct. Perhaps it could be worded better, but I've never operated under the illusion that it "added" 5% to the value of the module. But then there are very few bonuses in Eve do actually provide a bonus which "adds" a value to any existing bonus. Any skill that does do that is typically not a percentile.
I admit the wording is a little wooly "for passive modules - 5% bonus per skill level to Armor Thermal resistance" but the word "bonus" does not have to me "add". A 5% increase would perhaps be a better way of phrasing the description.
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Tymetrious Nor
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:07:00 -
[10]
Well I am not trying to twist things around, but as I was reading the skill and of course the extra time for the skill to mod the attributes of the ship it only seemed reasonable that the 20% was a bonus to the difference after the hardener was added. So your saying it is just an additional 20% or 5% per level factored off the hardener itself. If this is the case an active hardener is the better way to go and save the 8-9 days in training the passive skill.
I have a hard time accepting this, as it would be a total waste of time, as anyone that can fly T2 gear can surely fit active hardeners and be better off.
The problem is that the math works out either way using both of our methoids..lol
I hope that the 20% modding the hardener and not the ship is incorrect which is infact what is being stated
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tymetrious Nor
I hope that the 20% modding the hardener and not the ship is incorrect which is infact what is being stated
The bonus only adds to the hardner and not the total ship resistance bonus.
Good resistance skills + x2 T2 Nanos (or officer or faction nanos) and you'll have nice resists across the board on a T1 ship without having to worry about cap to maintain them.
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Tymetrious Nor
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:17:00 -
[12]
WOW, ok that changes things abit lol..
Well thanks everyone for straighting me out...
EVE FTW
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Rodge
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tymetrious Nor
Well I am not trying to twist things around, but as I was reading the skill and of course the extra time for the skill to mod the attributes of the ship it only seemed reasonable that the 20% was a bonus to the difference after the hardener was added. So your saying it is just an additional 20% or 5% per level factored off the hardener itself. If this is the case an active hardener is the better way to go and save the 8-9 days in training the passive skill.
Yes, active will ALWAYS give a better resistance. There's never been any question of this being different. Comes at the cost of cap usage and higher fitting requirements.
Originally by: Tymetrious Nor
I have a hard time accepting this, as it would be a total waste of time, as anyone that can fly T2 gear can surely fit active hardeners and be better off.
Nope. I've no problems affording just about any item I want. But I still use a lot of passive resistance modules. Especially the T2 Energised adaptive module.
You're forgetting the difference between an active and passive module. The passive always has much lower fitting requirements. Plus, it requires cap which is something that frigates will suffer with for one.
Personally, I love the new passive skills. It changes the energised adaptive II I mentioned from being a +20% to all resistances to being a +24% to all for me (and I will be training Exp/Kin/Therm to level 5 in time for +25% resistance!)
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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DenBrown
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Posted - 2006.10.08 10:05:00 -
[14]
READ THIS!
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