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Rogue Lawyer
Research E-Motion
50
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Posted - 2013.12.01 19:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi
So I have been wondering, the recent warp speed mechanics means that us primarily battleship pilots get to spin our camera around staring at the distance nebulae in space whilst waiting for our ships to arrive at the stargate and jump to the next system. A few expansions ago CCP added a feature where you could see in space your autopilot destination which was fairly cool.
It all got me thinking as to how big New Eden is, or more accurately how big it COULD be. At the present moment when someone mentions GÇ£New EdenGÇ¥ they refer to a cluster of systems that are interconnected via the jumpgate network. At the moment the current figures I could find are that New Eden is:
106 light years in length. 90 lights years in diameter.
Both of these figures are not only small they are tiny when looking at the grander scale of things and comparing them to other known Galaxies. The Milky way for instance is 100,000 light years in diameter, the M87 elliptical Galaxy is 980,000 light years in diameter and one of the largest known Galaxies the Hercules A is 1.5 million light years in diameter. But its worth remembering that again the term GÇ£New EdenGÇ¥ Applies to those systems that are interconnected via the stargate network. None the less it does appear to be a small Galaxy.
The Shape of New Eden.
They are currently five known shapes of Galaxies, Spiral, Elliptical, Lenticular,Irregular and Peculiar. The Evelopdia pages do not state which one of these is New Eden but having looked into it one could speculate via the process of elimination. .
A. The Evelopdia pages state that most neighbouring systems in New Eden are under a light year away from each other, which is fairly close when considering that in the current Milky way the nearest star system from the Solar System is Alpha Centauri which is 4.24 light years away. It is also thought of that Spiral Galaxies such as the Milky tend to be quite large and given the figures about New Eden as well as the map of the Galaxy as shown on the Eve website New Eden does not appear to be a Spiral Galaxy.
B.It is not a Peculiar as these type of Galaxies have had their shape distorted from interactions with other Galaxies. There is no known information of New Eden colliding with another Galaxy but it could be within close proximity to another Galaxy (read point E.).
C. I donGÇÖt think that New Eden is an Elliptical Galaxy as all indications suggest that it is a young Galaxy with stars still forming in many parts, an example in New Eden are the Vapor Sea, a crib of stars and a melting pot of gaseous clouds were new stars are being formed, albeit millions of years from full formation. Elliptical Galaxies tend to have very old stars, older than Spiral Galaxies.
D. Due to the close relation between Elliptical and Lenticular Galaxy I am inclined to rule out New Eden as a Lenticular class Galaxy. both tend to be very old Galaxy.
E. The final class of Galaxy which I am inclined to believe New Eden is an Irregular Galaxy, these Galaxies tend to have no particular shape to them. Further-more New Eden as it is currently know has a longer length than diameter in relation to light years, So is similar to NGC 1427A in shape and among other others such as the Sagittarius Galaxy and the Sculptor Galaxy all are dwarf Galaxies and Irregular in shape . Furthermore could New Eden be a Dwarf Galaxy? which could be one of many small Galaxies in a cluster? after all K-Space is only a few light years from New Eden. Could it be a dwarf Galaxy which is a companion of a larger Galaxy?
Hopefully Rubicon is the start of true exploration in the sense of the word. going where none have gone before and revealing to us a clear picture of New Eden. I am very excited about the future of Eve.
Anyway my speculative nonsense ends here.
Kind Regards.
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Jered Hakaaros
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2013.12.01 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thats a lot of thought! However, it has to be considered that 100x100 lightyears is by no means the size of the New Eden galaxy itself, those values merely mark the borders of the systems within the Stargate Network.
Compared to other known Stargate Networks such as Stargate (duh) and Mass Effect this is quite small. However, its still an impressive feat. |
Pezazz
Kitsune Corporation
9
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Posted - 2013.12.01 19:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
I really like this type of lore speculation. Great post, sir |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6559
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your comparisons of stellar distances with our solar system only hold for this region of the galaxy. Stellar densities within a spiral galaxy increase as you move into the arms (stars don't move along with the arms, rather they move through the arms - the arms themselves are a sort of density wave and they don't actually rotate with the galaxy) and as you move inward. EVE Online - An Unstable Game |
Iella Wesirri
Dead Rats Tell No Tales
22
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Posted - 2013.12.01 21:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
491
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Posted - 2013.12.01 21:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rogue Lawyer wrote:But its worth remembering that again the term GÇ£New EdenGÇ¥ Applies to those systems that are interconnected via the stargate network. None the less it does appear to be a small Galaxy. But it's not. It's those systems that are interconnected via the stargate network. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17608
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Posted - 2013.12.01 21:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iella Wesirri wrote:I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own. This.
I thought the lore was fairly clear on that point. It's a just dense star cluster, not a separate galaxy. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Solops Crendraven
Solops Mining
7
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Posted - 2013.12.01 21:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
No Nonsense here. Very Thoughtful genuine Speculations .Nothing but star stuff here. your are going places where no man has gone before. I share your passion of exploration as well. Eve Online It will have a future with more players as yourself. |
Felicity Love
Nighthawk Exploration
1022
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Posted - 2013.12.02 04:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
... savours the irony that most of that space, however it's defined, is rarely populated to the point of making more space a necessity.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
575
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Posted - 2013.12.02 04:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Iella Wesirri wrote:I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own. This. I thought the lore was fairly clear on that point. It's a just dense star cluster, not a separate galaxy. What I got from reading the lore is that the EVE gate was found on the outer edge of the Milky Way. Which would imply that it's not part of the Milky Way at all. Can you reference where the lore is clear that it is meant to be part of the Milky Way? |
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Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.12.02 05:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZPCiqBLPM8
just sayin |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3714
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Posted - 2013.12.02 05:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Some things to consider...
- New Eden might actually be a globular cluster and not a galaxy at all (it would make sense given how close everything is to each other). It could make sense because since we are inside the cluster we are not be able to see the whole thing as well as someone would from the outside. The Milky Way for example is poorly pictured for largely the same reason (we don't know if it is a Barred Spiral Galaxy, Grand Spiral Galaxy, or something else altogether). As for the lore about us being a galaxy... it can be ret-con'ed (or even revealed through in-game developments).
- according to the lore... we can only build functioning stargates in certain systems where the conditions are "just right." That means there could be A LOT of other systems that we have not (or cannot) go to... and are thus not listed (or seen) on the in-game map. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Leigh Akiga
Trickle Down Economics
361
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Posted - 2013.12.02 05:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pretty sure its leading up to Black Holes. |
Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2013.12.02 06:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Tippia wrote:Iella Wesirri wrote:I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own. This. I thought the lore was fairly clear on that point. It's a just dense star cluster, not a separate galaxy. What I got from reading the lore is that the EVE gate was found on the outer edge of the Milky Way. Which would imply that it's not part of the Milky Way at all. Can you reference where the lore is clear that it is meant to be part of the Milky Way?
That was my understanding too.
According to the lore, we left the Milky Way Galaxy a long ass time ago. Although we are technically in a cluster which can be part of a galaxy, that galaxy we are closest to is NOT the Milky Way. |
Orravan
Beautiful Losers
9
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Posted - 2013.12.02 11:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iella Wesirri wrote:I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own. If I remember correctly, Mankind was struggling in internal warfares when the wormhole to New Eden opened, and it is not known if New Eden is in a different place or part of the Milky Way, but it definitively is only a small cluster of stars, not a galaxy on its own.
/edit, found it :
Quote:Probes sent into the wormhole showed it was stable and it led to a solar system in an unknown galaxy. This could be a far-flung region of our own Milky Way galaxy, or a galaxy at the other side of the universe, or even another dimension or parallel universe. From the original background. Finicky diplomat. Suicidal explorer. Faithful ally. |
Rogue Lawyer
Research E-Motion
54
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Posted - 2013.12.02 16:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks for all the replies folks, having gone through the Evelopdia I couldn't find any mention of the Sol System so I assumed New Eden was a different Galaxy all together. Its all good though.
Kind Regards. |
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CCP Falcon
4866
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Posted - 2013.12.02 16:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm going to move this to EVE Fiction, as that's where it belongs.
You should check out EVE Source, which is coming in 2014, as it'll shed a lot of light on New Eden in terms of the make up of the empires, population distribution, and the scale of the cluster.
Maybe there's also an easter egg or two in it....
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
2518
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Posted - 2013.12.02 17:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've always figured that New Eden was a stellar nursery, a cluster of star-birthing nebulae isolated from the rest of the galaxy by a band of deadspace much too wide to be warped across.
I mean, it's pretty abundant in nebulae. The Lonetrek Nebula, the Laison Nebula, the Genesis Cloud, the Molden Nebula, the Jove Nebula, the Cloud Ring, the Pool of Radiance... that many features in so (relatively) small a volume of space implies that New Eden is a gravity well which large volumes of interstellar gas and dust fell into over the millennia, probably thanks to the black hole Ginnungagap.
But in EVE terms, a place where dust and junk accumulates that you can't easily warp into and out from is a deadspace pocket, so I'm thinking New Eden is basically just a really, really huge one. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5509
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Posted - 2013.12.02 17:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
FALCOOOON!
When is this book out? It's the one thing from the EVE Store I'd kill for. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs |
Rio Bravo
Gold State Sanctuary Pact
17
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Posted - 2013.12.02 17:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
EvE fits on my hard drive GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote. |
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Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3585
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Posted - 2013.12.02 21:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
I remember reading that the original colonials couldnt even map the stars when they first arrived. Pretty sure new eden and Eve is not in the milky way. Only Adam and whats left of the terrans is still there.
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Trioxis
Veyr The Veyr Collective
1
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Posted - 2013.12.04 02:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
The old EVE storyline intro doesn't specifically state whether the entire Milky Way Galaxy was colonized or not, just that 'the stargates could take them no further'. So it's ambiguous about the possibility of New Eden being located in the Milky Way or not. The EVE Universe: Origins vid someone linked earlier does state that the EVE Gate offered passage to a 'remote corner of the universe'. I'm not sure if the latter could be considered part of the official EVE lore but I'd like to think it is.
Also, considering the type of galaxy I've found this on the wiki:
Quote:Smuggler's Gate
Found exclusively in 0.0 space, these pirate faction gates create a link between two systems in adjacent spiral arms of the New Eden galaxy. |
Rogue Lawyer
The Scope Gallente Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.12.05 18:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Trioxis wrote:The old EVE storyline intro doesn't specifically state whether the entire Milky Way Galaxy was colonized or not, just that 'the stargates could take them no further'. So it's ambiguous about the possibility of New Eden being located in the Milky Way or not. The EVE Universe: Origins vid someone linked earlier does state that the EVE Gate offered passage to a 'remote corner of the universe'. I'm not sure if the latter could be considered part of the official EVE lore but I'd like to think it is. Also, considering the type of galaxy I've found this on the wiki: Quote:Smuggler's Gate
Found exclusively in 0.0 space, these pirate faction gates create a link between two systems in adjacent spiral arms of the New Eden galaxy.
Aye, much like you sometimes I find the Lore about the nature of New Eden appears to be contradictory. But with the new Eve info book that CCP Falcon has posted about coming out next year things should become clearer soon enough.
Kind Regards. |
Shiva Darksun
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anslo wrote:I remember reading that the original colonials couldnt even map the stars when they first arrived. Pretty sure new eden and Eve is not in the milky way.
That doesn't prove anything. The Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars. If the New Eden space is located far enough, the whole sky would look completely alien, even if within the same galaxy.
Analogy: Imagine an ant living on the living room window which is taken to the basement. Same house, but would it figure this out? I guess not. |
Trioxis
Veyr The Veyr Collective
3
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Posted - 2013.12.06 11:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shiva Darksun wrote:Anslo wrote:I remember reading that the original colonials couldnt even map the stars when they first arrived. Pretty sure new eden and Eve is not in the milky way. That doesn't prove anything. The Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars. If the New Eden space is located far enough, the whole sky would look completely alien, even if within the same galaxy. Analogy: Imagine an ant living on the living room window which is taken to the basement. Same house, but would it figure this out? I guess not.
The analogy is flawed. Moving from one side of the Milky Way to the complete opposite side would be more like moving an ant from one living room window to one on the other side of the room. It would leave you with most of the 'landmarks' just where they are relative to each other, you're just seeing them from a different perspective.
Of course that is assuming the EVE Gate was just a bridge to another point in space but not time. If travel through the wormhole also displaced the colonists in time it's a completely different matter. A lot of the stars in New Eden appear to be significantly older than what we currently believe the age of the universe to be though. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1068
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Posted - 2013.12.07 07:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP might have removed/retconned it but I think it was once said that the Eve wormhole had one end in the Canopus system in the Milky Way and no one knew where, "New Eden" actually was because of all the dust and gas was occluding observation beyond a certain point so they were unsure if it was even also in the Milky Way itself.
Then there's also the Ginnugap which is described as a supermassive black hole, so I guess New Eden is located somewhere near the centre of a galaxy perhaps and is surrounded by a halo of extremely dense gas and dust? |
Trioxis
Veyr The Veyr Collective
3
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Posted - 2013.12.07 09:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:CCP might have removed/retconned it but I think it was once said that the Eve wormhole had one end in the Canopus system in the Milky Way and no one knew where, "New Eden" actually was because of all the dust and gas was occluding observation beyond a certain point so they were unsure if it was even also in the Milky Way itself.
Then there's also the Ginnugap which is described as a supermassive black hole, so I guess New Eden is located somewhere near the centre of a galaxy perhaps and is surrounded by a halo of extremely dense gas and dust?
This thread is of particular importance. The location of the EVE Gate in the Milky Way, assuming the other end was not, was apparently the Canopus system, as confirmed by CCP Eterne.
Also note this response from CCP Falcon when someone said humanity had already covered the entire Milky Way by the time they discovered the wormhole:
Quote:Not the entire Milky Way, but we'd reached the limits of where technology could take us, and were starting to suffer from conflict due to resource scarcity and overcrowding.
The very early backstory can still be found here.
Regarding the Ginnungagap, it's definitely a black hole but I'm not sure if it is a supermassive one. Curiously, Ginnungagap comes from Norse mythology and refers to a 'vast, primordial void that existed prior to the creation of the manifest universe.' |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1068
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Posted - 2013.12.07 10:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Trioxis wrote:Regarding the Ginnungagap, it's definitely a black hole but I'm not sure if it is a supermassive one. Curiously, Ginnungagap comes from Norse mythology and refers to a 'vast, primordial void that existed prior to the creation of the manifest universe.'
I only raised the point because if you look at the range of jumpdrives and the amount of systems you can jump to in say a 5ly radius there's quite a few, and then if you consider that the systems you can jump to are probably only those with planetary bodies or exploitable resources, New Eden as presented seems quite dense with stars in astronomical terms. Which is why it being near the centre of a galaxy in the vicinity of a supermassive black hole can make sense.
I have no idea why anywhere you go in k-space in New Eden seems surrounded by a vast nebula or dust cloud though, but it's not like we have access to astronomical data about the place to make much sense of it all. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
743
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Posted - 2013.12.25 00:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iella Wesirri wrote:I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own.
It's definitely not in or near the milky way galaxy, the lore clearly states that the location cannot be determined as there are no clear sky markers like pulsars that can be observed that match any known records making triangulation impossible. It's been speculated that new eden may exist within an entirely different universe altogether or or very distant part of our own universe. However the new eden cluster is definitely a part of a much larger structure most probably a spiral galaxy as evidenced by the banding that can be seen in the skies of New Eden.
Anoikis space has been triangulated by project compass to approximately 1500 ly to the south east (in relative mapping terms) to New Eden though there are holes in the data that contradict this such as the large numbers of pulsars and the occasional black hole system which cosmologists would not expect to form in such close proximity to each other as well as observations from wh residents who report that they cannot directly observe any of these things beyond their own solar systems. This leads many to think that the project compass data is erroneous to say the least.
Interestingly the new eden star cluster rotates around a 'central point which had been confirmed to be a small Black Hole which over the course of its existence has profoundly shaped the cluster and the solar systems within it. Meta:
It is worth noting that ccp said that you can Google each wh system identifer, I.e. j123456 and that each system corresponds to a star catalogue entry used by rl astronomers to locate and identify deep sky objects such as pulsars, quasars and black holes hinting that the New Eden cluster is located within our universe, so you will have to make of that what you will. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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