If there is no local to indicate people jumping into system, I believe gate fire should be somewhat recognizable from afar. For example, said cloaky didn't show up in local - but the ratter's/miner's dscan still has chances to pick up gate-fire on xy-gate if he was actively looking in that direction or simply close enough to that gate.

With a bomber and it's whole hunting-specialization, it surely should have a formidable *passive sensor thingy*. Would be cool to suddenly see a green battleship-icon pinging in an anomaly on your system scanner!

To the submarine analogy, isn't dscanning itself the passive thing - and launching probes the active version?

I would suggest some aspects which evolved from past discussions. Here are the basics from a thread I made, for reference.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112964&find=unread
[ibid]

This is interesting, could it be something like being able to see if people are actively d-scanning? hi-jacking their d-scan results, though at less accuracy, would be pretty cool.

Perhaps what's needed is a third state of local for NS? WHs have no local, but for various reasons pointed out elsewhere, that's no use in null.

Off the top of my head: make NS local a constellation wide channel. Gives more longterm warning (ie someone in the area), but less precise and less immediate warning (someone in your system).

This would further distinguish the three areas of space in terms of the dynamics of local: empire space, null and whs, all very different.

D-scan results being added to the overview, which is already your ship's list of known items sorted by player preference.

Great! Constellation wide Local is really interesting. Is a Region-wide local too much?

Wow! Great write-up you made! Am truly loving how you worked it out.
Except for the dscan results being added to the overview :p

We allready have a dscan window, so imho it's best to show all shipcontacts in that window, and not clutter up the overview.
Added bonus, if you click on one of the contacts, the camera swings around, to show you the direction of the contact on the overlay ;)

It's almost like an ideal opporunity for some sort of mobile unit. a mobile unit in a system will open up a chat window to those in corp/alliance. Each system that contains a mobile unit will report any intel to this chat channel. Mobile unit can be placed anywhere in system and will provide intel to the owners. Unit is a small destoyable item (no reinforce) and has small HP.

Intention is to create bring back the hit and run fleets.
Replace local and the number of intel channels
Provides corps/alliances at war intel on targets
Provides SOV holding alliances info on incursions
Provides attacking fleets positions of ratters/miners and also numbers in system perhaps
Can be although not inclusive to, placement in a pos

Perhaps unit also has a timer? higher anchoiring skill increases duration of unit... meaning the actual gathering of intel becomes a task.

This is basically an automated sensor buoy.

I would spin it to be divided into two types, an active that broadcast sensor energy for more information, in exchange for being easily spotted as a beacon you could warp to and destroy...
Vs a passive one, that relied on things entering grid with it, or detecting energy broadcast by others using active type detection methods.

Thank you all for your continued contribution to this thread. Especially Nikk Narrel and Arwen Ariniel

The first level of access should give you the last 15 minutes of activity (the length of a criminal flag) and should be very easy to obtain for t2 Recon hulls. I also think sov-holding alliances should have free access to the gate and station logs of their own systems, probably from the Infrastructure Hub.

Do you envisage higher levels of access and would they hold older records or more information on the last 15 minutes?

I've always supported getting rid of local in null sec and replacing it with the seldom used constellation chat so you know there's people about but you don't know (without d-scan and intel) exactly where they are in a given constellation.

That's definitely something people are worried about Teckos. The counter argument I've heard proposed is that if you widen the scope of Local (in terms of distance) you force people to deal with a certain amount of traffic and thereby lessen the power of AFK cloaking because people will prettly quickly just learn to get on with it. What do you think?

PS. thanks for your interest in this thread

I guess it depends on how people do their risk-reward calculus. I've been told that PvE pilots default to assuming the guy cloaked in system is always there and poses a threat. Switching this over to constellation wide chat if PvE pilots default to the guy being active and in their system, then they'll dock up.

Of course, one guy can't be in every system in a constellation, so a more reasonable approach would be to rational risk-reward calculus....but then people don't always do what is most rational.

The solution is to remove peoples names from local when they are cloaked and only add them back in when they talk. Of course the cloakys can still watch local but this way null-bears probably won't be aware of them and likewise couldn't complain about them.

Brilliant idea. Kill off PVE in null, and thus kill off PVP in null.
I like it.

the only problem i have with replacing or removing local is the information from the starmap. It can tell you a lot of things that you really shouldnt be able to know as a hostile entity, without actually being there yourself. My favorite examples are: sovreignty levels (including indy and military), NPCs killed, and number of people active in system (that one could be chjanged a bit without removing it completely). I feel that at least in nullsec, this information should not be as availible to everyone with a map browser (which is everyone).

Don't get me wrong, I love alot of the ideas in this thread. Just not convinced it is sufficient to keep people wanting to do PvE in null. Or to put it another way, the ideas in this thread would be welcome changes to the game (provided they don't impact server performance), but while they are good they might not go far enough.

local in null? get rid of it, hack it or make it like wormholes

local in losec? hack it, destroyable local transponders, discontinuous coverage.

local in hisec should be left as it is. thats why its hisec.

you want to operate in hisec then you have to work around the rules. dont like it move to losec.

Wouldn't this be a substantial boost for AFK cloaking and even possibly active cloaking?