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Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:53:00 - [1] With upcoming changes to ships like the Phoon, talk or higher tier BS/BC and continued tech II versions of ships on the way I wanted to put out some ideas of mine while the server issues get sorted. Now to truly discuss a single ship I will need to include all current ships in game, new tiers coming in and upcoming tech II versions of each. This will mainly be a ship post but other aspects of the game will have to be discussed as well. The post will be divided into ship cases based both on CCPs ideas and my own. Subclasses will also follow the same idea. In each class I will give a break down of each races ships. As ship class size increases I will include its progression from smaller ships in the class. All explanations of each class may or may not agree with CCPs. Some ships can fit into more than one class. Only combat ships will be covered for the most part. Mining barges and hauling type ships not included. Classes Scout This class serves serves as the eyes for the rest of the fleet. They are tasked to find ships that have fled and hidden or move ahead of the fleet uncover any possible hidden threats. Ships of this class feature bonuses to Astrometrics. Electronic Warfare (EW) EW ships mostly try to help stop or impede enemy ships from doing damage to the fleet. They can also help the fleet see and hit better depending on which races EW is used. Ships in this class have bonuses to the following racial EW ECM This EW type tries to completely jam a target so it is not able to lock at all. Most weapons need a lock to be used so once jammed most ships are not able to do any damage. The following weapons can be used without a lock. This is the racial Caldari EW. Smart Bombs FoF missiles Drones Sensor Damps The goal of sensor damps is to lower the targeting range and targeting time of the enemy ship. This can allow the friendly fleet to stay out of target range if fitted for long range fighting. It can also allow close range ships the chance to close the range before taking damage. It can also delay the enemy ship's ability to do damage quickly and be outdamaged by the friendly fleet. This is the racial Gallente EW. Tracking Disruptors Used to decrease the range and tracking ability of all guns. With both a reduction in range in tracking the ability of guns to hit a target goes down. Combined with good tactics damage from enemy guns can be reduced to very little or all together. This is the racial Amarr EW Target Painters Any ship on the receiving end of target painters has its signature size increase. A ship with a large signature are eaiser to track by guns, helps give guns higher quality of hits and can help large missiles do closer to full damage on small ships. They don't lower the targets ability to do damage to your fleet but they do help your fleet do more damage to the target. This is the racial Matari EW. Interceptors This class favors speed over defense. Being the fasted ships in combat they are able to chase down enemies from behind and keep up with the fastest combatants on the battle area. Interceptors are broken down into two sub classes. All ships in this class get a reduction to sig size making them harder to lock and track. Tacklers The role of the tackler is to target an enemy fast and keep them from running. This role is carried out with the use of webs and warp scramblers. Webs lowers that targets agility as in the ability to move at a fast rate of speed making it easier for the friendly fleet to hit and kill. Scramblers stop the enemy ship to enter warp and flee. Ships in this class may or may not include bonuses to those modules with my design ideas. Current tacklers have no bonuses to those modules. Dog Fighters This sub class trades the roll of tackler for firepower. They still use speed over defense. The role of these ships is to kill other fast ships and can be used for hit in run attacks. In small groups they can be deadly to even larger ships.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:54:00 - [2] Logistics & Support This is somewhat of a akward class as it contains, depending on race, two very different types of ship roles. Logistics I consider this sub class mining as in these ships take care of the logistics of gathering ore for the fleet. Two races, the Matari and Caldari, have a cruiser that features a mining bonus and fit in this sub class. All races have a frigate that fit in this sub class. Only ships featuring a bonus only useful to mining fit in this sub class. Support These ships help aid friendly ships in several different ways depending on racial bonus. Cap Transfer Transfering cap power to another ship can help aid it in tanking or running in other high cap use equipment. This is the Amarr main racial bonus. Remote Armor Reps The Ability to remote repair the armor of a targeted ship. Either during or after combat friendly ships can be repaired. This is the Gallente main racial bonus. Remote Shield Reps Work the same as remote armor reps but transfer shields instead. This is the Caldari main racial bonus. Tracking Links These can remotely provide a ship with better tracking providing the targets guns the ability to track and hit a target better. This is the Matari main racial bonus. Assault This class is designed not only to do damage but also to take it. Typicaly the slowest ships of any given size they also feature the ability to take more damage. This happens with some combination of increase hit point, higher resists or a boost to shield or armor reps. Ships in this class will favor defense and firepower over speed and agility compared to the interceptor class. Bonuses are likely to be some combination of weapon damage or defense. These ships are still fast enough to keep up with a fast moving mixed fleet. They can all use propulsion upgrades like afterburners and micro warp drives to maintain high combat speeds. These ships can be considered the most well rounded as they can do damage, take damage and still move fast enough in combat to be apart of a mobile fleet. Command This class is used to give gang wide bonuses depending on what equipment the ship is carrying. This are the only ships than can fit such equipment. Ships in this class may also feature some bonuses that put them in another class as well. Some ships also feature bonuses to that races command modules as well. Point Defense/Area Defense These ships are designed to either defend large ships from frigates or defend or certain area of space by not allowing ships to leave. Point Defense This ships feature many small fast tracking guns but still somewhat slower speeds compared to the targets. They are designed to stay next to larger slower ships or fix location and destroy any frigates attacking said ship or location. Area Defense Also has the ability to perform the role of Point Defense but features much faster speeds and can chase targets if needed. Main role is to launch warp warp bubbles to quickly lock down an area of space before more permanent anchored bubbles can be deployed. Siege These ships maximised both damage and the ability to take damage over everything else. Most are not able to use any active propulsion mods with any effectivness. The biggest ships in this class also feature siege modes in which they can't move yet do much higher damage and can take much higher. Note that during this mode tracking is greatly reduced and should always be used on stationary targets. The purpose of these ships is to kill large highly defended fixed targets and also engage other large ships in fleet combat. They lack the speed and ease of mobility to keep up with a fast pace hit and run fleet.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:56:00 - [3] Now based on the class and sub classes I listed above I will put all current ships in one or more of them. I will then link the progression in each class for different ship sizes. With that in place I will offer my ideas of some changes to current ships, insert some new ships and some ideas for the tech II ships Frigates Amarr Scout The Amarr are currently missing a scout frigate as they have one less frigate than all other races. A design like the other races is needed. I don't have any ideas for this one but it shouldn't be too hard. Anathema û Change to new missing frigate model. Tech II scouts should be based on tech I hulls. EW Crucifier û No changes needed Crucifier Tech II û Maybe increase bonus to racial EW or a secondary EW bonus like ECM. Possible reduction in sig. Interceptor Executioner û No changes needed Crusader û No changes needed Malediction û Replace missile damage bonus with 10% cap use reduction to warp disruptors and replace 5% laser damage bonus with 20% range to stasis webs per lvl. Logistics & Support Tormentor û No changes needed Tormentor Tech II û Mini Guardian? Assault Inquisitor û No changes needed Punisher û No changes needed Retribution û Change 1 lowslot to 1 medslot to make more useful for PvP. Add 4th AF bonus 5% to all armor resists per lvl. Vengeance - Add 4th AF bonus 2.5% to all shield and armor resists per lvl. Since this ship has only one missile hardpoint the Khanid/Caldari tech goes to the medslots and shields. The ship could tank either type or enjoy extra mids for PvP. Purifier û Add 1 launcher hardpoint. Increase fittings to fit 3rd cruise launcher Caldari Scout Heron û No changes needed Buzzard û Change to Heron model. EW Griffin û No changes needed Griffin tech II - Maybe increase bonus to racial EW or a secondary EW bonus like cap use to multis or burst. Possible reduction in sig. Interceptor Condor û No changes needed Crow û No changes needed Raptor - Replace missile damage bonus with 10% cap use reduction to warp disruptors and replace 5% hydrid damage bonus with 20% range to stasis webs per lvl. Logistics & Support Bantam û No changes needed Bantam Tech II û Mini Basilisk? Assault Kestrel û No changes needed Merlin û Add one turret hardpoint or give weapon bonus to each weapon type due to 50/50 split. For example keep range bonus for guns and give either a damge or rof bonus to missiles. This double bonus would not replace the shield resist bonus. Harpy û Add 4th AF bonus 5% to all shield resists. Hawk û Add 4th AF bonus 5% to Small Hybrid Turret damage. Manticore û No changes needed Gallente Scout Imicus û No changes needed Helios û Change to Imicus model EW Maulus û No changes needed Maulus Tech II - Maybe increase bonus to racial EW or a secondary EW bonus like cap use to ECM. Possible reduction in sig. Interceptor Atron û No changes needed Ares - Change 1 lowslot to 1 medslot. Replace missile damage bonus with 10% warp scramble strength to warp scramblers and replace 5% hydrid damage bonus with 20% range to stasis webs per lvl. Taranis û Change 1 medslot to 1 lowslot Logistics & Support Navitas û No changes needed Navitas Tech II - Mini Oneiros? Assault Incursus û No changes needed Tristan û Double damage bonus for guns and missiles. Keep turret tracking. Give 5% bonus to gun damage and standard missile and rocket thermal damage. Enyo û Change 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage to double bonus of 10% for 4th AF bonus. Ishkur û Add 4th AF bonus 5% damage to light drones Nemesis - Add 1 launcher hardpoint. Increase fittings to fit 3rd cruise launcher Matari Scout Probe û No changes needed Cheetah û Change to Probe model. EW Vigil û No changes needed Vigil Tech II - Maybe increase bonus to racial EW or a secondary EW bonus like sensor damps. Possible reduction in sig.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:57:00 - [4] Interceptor Slasher û No changes needed Claw û No changes needed Stiletto - Replace fall off bonus with 10% warp scramble strength to warp scramblers and replace 5% projectile damage bonus with 20% range to stasis webs per lvl. Logistics & Support Burst û No changes needed Burst Tech II û Mini Scimitar? Assault Breacher û No changes needed Rifter û No changes needed. Can do 3/1 split on weaponsthat are left. Each size class will be broken down into each race. Jaguar û Add 4th AF bonus 5% increase max velocity. Wolf û Add 4th AF bonus 5% ROF or 5% tracking Hound - Add 1 launcher hardpoint. Increase fittings to fit 3rd cruise launcher Destroyers Amarr Point Defense Coercer- No changes needed Coercer Tech II û ROF penalty removed. Armor HP increased and resists increase 50% of assault. Tech II bonuses 20% range increase to webs and 10% bonus to optimal range of small lasers. Keeps special 50% small laser range bonus. Area Defense Tech 1 Heretic - 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level Heretic û 5% bonus to missile damage changed to 5% bonus to missile and small laser damage due to split weapons. Model changed to Area Defense Tier 1 destroyer. Caldari Point Defense Cormorant û No chamges needed Cormorant Tech II - ROF penalty removed. Shield HP increased and resists increase 50% of assault. Tech II bonuses 20% range increase to webs and 10% bonus to optimal range of small hybrids. Keeps special 50% small hybrid range bonus. Area Defense Flycatcher Tech I - 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity and 5% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level Flycatcher û Model changed to Area Defense Tier 1 destroyer. Gallente Point Defense Catalyst û No changes needed Catalyst Tech II - ROF penalty removed. Armor HP increased and resists increase 50% of assault. Tech II bonuses 20% range increase to webs and 20% bonus to fall off range of small hybrids. Changes special 50% small hybrid range bonus to fall off. Area Defense Eris Tech I - 7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level and 5% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level. Eris û 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile thermal damage changed to 5% bonus to Rocket, Light Missile thermal damage and small hybrid damage due to split weapons. Model changed to Area Defense Tier 1 destroyer. Matari Point Defense Thrasher- No changes needed Thrasher Tech II - ROF penalty removed. Shield HP increased and resists increase 50% of assault. Tech II bonuses 20% range increase to webs and 10% bonus to fall off range of small projectiles. Keeps special 50% small projectile range bonus. Area Defense Sabre Tech I - 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level and 5% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level. Sabre û Model changed to Area Defense Tier 1 destroyer. Cruiser Amarr Scout/EW Pilgrim û No changes needed Electronic Warfare (EW) Arbitrator û Increase launchers from 1 to 2 Curse û No changes needed Logistics & Support Augoror û No change needed Guardian û No changes needed Assault Omen û No change needed Maller û No change needed Zealot û No change needed Sacrilege - Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus changed to 5% bonus Missile Launcher and Medium Energy Turret RoF and 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and Heavy and Standard missile velocity per level. Dual weapon bonuses due to weapon split. 1 Turret hardpoint removed. Caldari Scout/EW Falcon û No changes needed Electronic Warfare (EW) Blackbird û No changes needed Rook û No changes needed Logistics & Support Osprey û No changes needed Basilisk û No changes needed Assault Caracal û No changes needed Moa û No changes needed Cerberus- 5th launcher added Eagle û No changes needed
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:58:00 - [5] Gallente Scout/EW Arazu û No changes needed Electronic Warfare (EW) Celestis û No changes needed Interceptor/EW Lachesis û No changes needed Logistics & Support Exequror û No changes needed Oneiros û No changes needed Assault Vexor û No changes needed Thorax û No changes needed Deimos û No changes needed Ishtar û No changes needed Matari Scout/EW Rapier û No changes needed Electronic Warfare (EW) Bellicose - 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Rate of Fire changed to 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret, Heavy and Assault launcher Rate of Fire. Dual weapon bonus due to split weapons. Huginn û Both ROF bonuses doubled to 10% due to split weapons. Interceptor/Assault Stabber û No changes needed Vagabond û Change medslot with lowslot. 5 Meds and 4 Lows. Logistics & Support Scythe û No changes needed Scimitar û No changes needed Assault Rupture û No changes needed Muninn û No changes needed Battle Cruiser (BC) Amarr Interceptors/Assault Tier 2 BC - 10% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. 185 m/s base speed and around Maller in mass. Slight reduction in total HP compared to Prophecy. 8 Turret hardpoints and no launchers. 8 Highs. No command bonus. Tier 2 BC Tech II û Tech II bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level. Interceptor Tech II resists. Assault/Command Absolution û No changes needed Command Prophecy - No changes needed Damnation û No changes needed Caldari Interceptors/Assault Tier 2 BC - 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. 180 m/s base speed and around Moa in mass. Slight reduction in total HP compared to Ferox. 8 Launcher hardpoints and no turrets. 8 Highs. No command bonus. Tier 2 BC Tech II û Tech II bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level. Interceptor Tech II resists. Assault/Command Nighthawk û No changes needed Command Ferox û No changes needed Vulture û No changes needed Gallente Interceptors/Assault Tier 2 BC - 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. 190 m/s base speed and around Thorax in mass. Slight reduction in total HP compared to Brutix. 8 turret hardpoints and no launchers. 8 Highs. No command bonus. Tier 2 BC Tech II û Tech II bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level. Interceptor Tech II resists. Assault/Command Astarte û No changes needed Command Brutix û No changes needed Eos û No changes needed Matari Interceptors/Assault Tier 2 BC - 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. 200 m/s base speed and around Rupture in mass. Slight reduction in total HP compared to Cyclone. 8 turret hardpoints and no launchers. 8 Highs and 6 Meds. No command bonus. Tier 2 BC Tech II û Tech II bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level. Interceptor Tech II resists. Assault/Command Sleipnir û No changes needed Command Cyclone û No changes needed Claymore û No changes needed
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:59:00 - [6] Matari Electronic Warfare (EW)/Interceptor Typhoon û Change slots to 8 Hi, 6 Med, 5 Low. Bonuses changed to 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret, Siege and Cruise Missile Launcher firing speed and 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per skill level. Typhoon Tech II û Tech II bonuses 60% bonus to stasis webifier range and 5% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. Full Tech II assault resists. Interceptors/Assault 2nd Tier 1 BS - 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. 8 Hi, 6 Med, 5 Low, 6 Turrets, 3 Launchers. Same mass as Phoon. Base speed 180 m/s. 2nd Tier 1 BS Tech II û Tech II bonuses 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff range and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level. 50% full tech II assault resists. Assault Tempest û No changed needed Tempest Tech II û Tech II bonuses 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed per level. 50% full tech II assault resists. Siege/Command (Anti POS and fleet BS) Tier 3 BS - 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret optimal range and 7.5% bonus to Shield Booster effectiveness per level. Special 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. 8 Hi, 6 med, 6 low, 8 turrets, 3 launchers. Using CCPs current stats on it. Tier 3 BS Tech II û Tech II bonuses 3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links and 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret firing speed per level. Full Tech II assault resists. Capitol Ship Amarr Logistics & Support/Command Archon û Change Shield transfer range to armor transfer range. Aeon û No changes needed Siege Revelation û No changes needed Caldari Logistics & Support/Command Chimera û No changes needed Wyvern- No changes needed Siege Phoenix û No changes needed Gallente Logistics & Support/Command Thanatos û No changes needed Nyx û No changes needed Siege Moros û No changes needed Matari Logistics & Support/Command Nidhoggur û No changes needed Hel û No changes needed Siege Naglfar û No changes needed
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:59:00 - [7] Battleship (BS) Amarr Electronic Warfare (EW) 2nd Tier 1 BS - 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor use per level. 7 hi, 6 meds, 6 lows. 5 turrets, 3 launchers. 2nd Tier 1 BS Tech II û Tech II bonuses 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20 bonus to web range. Full Tech II assault resists. Assault Apocalypse û No changes needed Apocalypse Tech II û Tech II Bonuses 5% bonus Siege, Cruise Missile Launcher and Large Energy Turret RoF and 5% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level. 5 Turrets 5 launchers. 50% of full Tech II resists. Armageddon û No changes needed Armageddon Tech II û Tech II Bonuses 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage 5% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level. 50% of full Tech II resists. Siege/Command (Anti POS and fleet BS) Tier 3 BS û 5% reduction in capacitor recharge and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level. Special 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. 8 Hi, 4 med, 8 low, 7 turret, 1 launcher. Big sig, slow, massive grid and cap using CCPs current stats on it. Tier 3 BS Tech II û Tech II bonuses 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links and 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range. Full Tech II assault resists. Caldari Electronic Warfare (EW) Scorpion û No changes needed Scorpion Tech II û Tech II bonuses 10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength and 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range and torp and cruise missile velocity per level. Dual weapon bonus due to split weapon types. 4 Turrets, 4 Launchers. Full Tech II assault resists. Assault 2nd Tier 1 BS - 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to torp and cruise missile precision per level. 8 Hi, 6 Med, 4 Low. 6 Turret 3 Launchers. 50% full Tech II assault resists. Raven û No changes needed Raven Tech II û Tech II bonuses 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage and 10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo Velocity per level. Siege/Command (Anti POS and fleet BS) Tier 3 BS - 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to shield resistance per level. Special 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. 8 Hi, 7 med, 5 low, 7 turrets, 4 launchers. Using CCPs current stats on it. Tier 3 BS Tech II û Tech II bonuses 3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links and 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level. Full Tech II assault resists. Gallente Electronic Warfare (EW)/Interceptor 2nd Tier 1 BS û 20% range to stasis webs and Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per skill level. 6 Hi, 7 med, 5 low, 5 turrets, 3 launchers 2nd Tier 1 BS Tech II û Tech II Bonuses 10% bonus to warp disruptor range and 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret Damage per level. Full Tech II assault Resists. Assault Dominix- No changes needed Dominix Tech II û Tech II bonuses +10 km bonus to Scout and Heavy Drone operation range and 5% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. 50% full tech II assault resists. Megathron û No changes needed Megathron Tech II û Tech II bonuses 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% less penalty to max capacitor capacity for Microwarpdrive usage per level 50% full tech II assault resists. Siege/Command (Anti POS and fleet BS) Tier 3 BS - 20% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret fall off range per level and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level Special 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. 8 Hi, 5 med, 7 low, 8 turrets, 1 launchers. Using CCPs current stats on it. Tier 3 BS Tech II û Tech II bonuses 3% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links and 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level. Full Tech II assault resists.
Dust Angel	Posted - 2006.03.05 08:01:00 - [8] How can you comment on t2 placeholders as if thats their final stats? also, wtf change the buzzard to the heron model. WHY? _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind. If you can't handle the heat, out of the fire. -Capsicum
Foulis	Posted - 2006.03.05 08:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Valcoria Originally by: Valcoria Taranis û Change 1 medslot to 1 lowslot Would make taranis far, far less unique, also would remove it's ability to tackle in any effective way. Originally by: Valcoria Enyo û Change 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage to double bonus of 10% for 4th AF bonus. That would make the taranis (especially with the change you suggest) completely useless. Originally by: Valcoria Ishkur û Add 4th AF bonus 5% damage to light drones I don't know about you, but I only use 1 light drone in my ishkur, make it either a bonus to all drones, or a bonus to mediums as they are more common. Originally by: Valcoria Jaguar û Add 4th AF bonus 5% increase max velocity. Still needs another slot, otherwise it's just a fast, expensive rifter. Originally by: Valcoria Tier 2 BC - 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. 200 m/s base speed and around Rupture in mass. Slight reduction in total HP compared to Cyclone. 8 turret hardpoints and no launchers. 8 Highs and 6 Meds. No command bonus. No. Just. No. That would be so overpowered it's not funny. It would be tougher than a rupture, have more firepower than its (slower) brother. I mean really, 8 turrets with 5% rof bonus? What are you smoking? Originally by: Valcoria Tier 2 BC Tech II û Tech II bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level. Interceptor Tech II resists. And here comes the kicker, now it has an additional bonus to damage, making it literally insane. It also has a sig radius that's probably smaller than some CRUISERS. It would be terribly unbalanced. Even without the additional resists. In summary, some are fine, but once you started smoking *** towards the end it went all insane. ---- I <3 Taranis Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by:** CCP Hammer Boobies
Shinnen	Posted - 2006.03.05 09:37:00 - [10] Edited by: Shinnen on 05/03/2006 09:40:35 Edited by: Shinnen on 05/03/2006 09:38:12 The Hawk should be a missile ship. Give it 4 missile hardpoints and a kinetic missile damage bonus. kthxbai Give lachesis 2 more low slots and 1 less med slot? Keep Buzzard model the same please!! --- A Selfdestruct Proposal 400x120@24000 bytes Maximum please. -Capsicum would you like some cheese with that whine? -Shinnen
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.03.05 10:50:00 - [11] ...20km webifiers? I think Propulsion jamming as a whole would need re-working before you could think about bonuses like that... - Office Linebacker -
Forsch	Posted - 2006.03.05 11:07:00 - [12] I think it's alot more useful if people discuss about changes and make suggestions, that really know the ships. Can you honestly say that you know all these ships well enough to make balancing suggestions? I know I couldn't. And reading your suggestions, some seem very odd indeed. Also if everyone now comments on the ships they fly and know, this thread will soon be total chaos. ________________________________________________________________ Forsch Defender of the empire
Jim Steele	Posted - 2006.03.05 11:15:00 - [13] Some good suggestions here but also some bad ones, and ultimately its the Dev's who decides what needs balancing not a forum post. Author of "The Apoc Guide"
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2006.03.05 13:16:00 - [14] Also a big no-no to tech1 interdictors. They should be specialised ships (guess why skillbook costs 40mil) and noobs shouldn't be able to fly them in 2 weeks (month if counting spheres).
Shofix Umgeh	Posted - 2006.03.05 13:40:00 - [15] Any post that suggests that to achieve balance the Megathron requires no changes loses any semblance of credibility in my eyes... That and a few other of the crazier suggestions just makes the OPs a more lengthy post to be disregarded...
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.03.05 14:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Valcoria Retribution û Change 1 lowslot to 1 medslot to make more useful for PvP. Add 4th AF bonus 5% to all armor resists per lvl. Vengeance - Add 4th AF bonus 2.5% to all shield and armor resists per lvl. Since this ship has only one missile hardpoint the Khanid/Caldari tech goes to the medslots and shields. The ship could tank either type or enjoy extra mids for PvP. Caldari Harpy û Add 4th AF bonus 5% to all shield resists. Hawk û Add 4th AF bonus 5% to Small Hybrid Turret damage. Manticore û No changes needed Gallente Enyo û Change 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage to double bonus of 10% for 4th AF bonus. Ishkur û Add 4th AF bonus 5% damage to light drones Matari Jaguar û Add 4th AF bonus 5% increase max velocity. Wolf û Add 4th AF bonus 5% ROF or 5% tracking for Afrig changes please use this thread Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Valcoria Enyo û Change 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage to double bonus of 10% for 4th AF bonus. That would make the taranis (especially with the change you suggest) completely useless. ...so are you happy with interceptors being masters at superior firepower, superior speed, thus making a great tackler/damage disher, while the assault frigates are just big fat frigates with only extra armour and not surpassing the interceptors in firepower? Interceptors have too many roles while Afrigs don't. Afrigs and interceptors need to have some sort of interbalancing, so that the Afrigs stop being glorified T1 frigs with extra armour and the interceptors stop being the all-rounder powerhorse it is today. ---------------- Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
Knoppaz	Posted - 2006.03.05 14:35:00 - [17] Imho the Stabber could need a change. It seems to slightly prefer shield-tanking, but it doesn't really support it. A more usefull setup (imho) would be: High 5x (loose 1 high and share 1 for turret/launcher) 1. Turret 2. Turret 3. Turret 4. Turret/Launcher 5. Launcher Mid 4x Low 3x or even Mid 5x Low 2x tho the first option would be a bit more Matari I guess. ..just my 2 ISK
Knoppaz	Posted - 2006.03.05 14:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Valcoria Jaguar û Add 4th AF bonus 5% increase max velocity. Still needs another slot, otherwise it's just a fast, expensive rifter. We're talking about a mid-slot, right?
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2006.03.05 14:43:00 - [19] Target painters (or sig radius increase): It was proven by experiment that sig radius has no effect on hit quality. Only effect is more hits and faster locking. ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well ...
Ranged Airman	Posted - 2006.03.05 15:01:00 - [20] Edited by: Ranged Airman on 05/03/2006 15:01:46 wow, quit flaming people... "once you started smoking..." Seriously, give your input but you don't need to be a ***** about it. The poster is just trying to get an idea of some ship changes. It's right to give your own opinion, but not to bash the poster. Constructive criticism is key.
Cade Morrigan	Posted - 2006.03.05 15:27:00 - [21] Quote: Assault Moa û No changes needed c'mon, make my day, 6-5-3 slot Moa!
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 20:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Dust Angel How can you comment on t2 placeholders as if thats their final stats? also, wtf change the buzzard to the heron model. WHY? The placeholder stats are a work in progress and can and do change before launch. The reason for the model change is the Covert Op scout ships are using the EW Frigate models yet they have no EW bonuses. They are truly scout ships and should be using the scout frigate models. Unless the tech II EW frigates will be using tech I scout frigate models.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Valcoria Originally by: Valcoria Taranis û Change 1 medslot to 1 lowslot Would make taranis far, far less unique, also would remove it's ability to tackle in any effective way. Per my post interceptors are broken down into two types. One is a damage dealer and the other the true tackler. The Taranis is the damage dealer and so has its slots adjusted to reflect this. Now the slots could be kept the same and it just wouldn't benefit from the tackler bonus. Originally by: Valcoria Enyo û Change 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage to double bonus of 10% for 4th AF bonus. That would make the taranis (especially with the change you suggest) completely useless. How does it make it worthless. The bonus to damage is increased from 5% to 10% per level in place of the current resist bonus which now would be applied without needing to be a bonus. This is additive and takes nothing away from the ship. Originally by: Valcoria Ishkur û Add 4th AF bonus 5% damage to light drones I don't know about you, but I only use 1 light drone in my ishkur, make it either a bonus to all drones, or a bonus to mediums as they are more common. I was trying to make light drones more useful and didn't include mediums for that reason. I was thinking of making the bonus 10% to make the lights very much useful over the mediums and provide extra wings if you lose the first ones. Originally by: Valcoria Jaguar û Add 4th AF bonus 5% increase max velocity. Still needs another slot, otherwise it's just a fast, expensive rifter. Ok in that case increase mid slots from 3 to 4. Originally by: Valcoria Tier 2 BC - 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. 200 m/s base speed and around Rupture in mass. Slight reduction in total HP compared to Cyclone. 8 turret hardpoints and no launchers. 8 Highs and 6 Meds. No command bonus. No. Just. No. That would be so overpowered it's not funny. It would be tougher than a rupture, have more firepower than its (slower) brother. I mean really, 8 turrets with 5% rof bonus? What are you smoking? The point of the tier 2 BCs is to go with the idea CCP had for them at first. Hits hard like a BS but lacks the HP or tanking ability to stand up to BS fire in return. I also made them faster than normal BCs to give then speed as a tactic. In all fairness I never ran the DPS numbers on them but that is the idea I was going for. The sig would be the same if not higher than the tier 1s. Originally by: Valcoria Tier 2 BC Tech II û Tech II bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level. Interceptor Tech II resists. And here comes the kicker, now it has an additional bonus to damage, making it literally insane. It also has a sig radius that's probably smaller than some CRUISERS. It would be terribly unbalanced. Even without the additional resists. Again hard hitting, normal to large sig for the size, no tanking bonuses and have to use speed and firepower to survive. I need to balance the damage but I am going for BS level damage, same or bigger sig than current BC but less able to tank. As a added twist they gain high speed to try and survive BS fire. In summary, some are fine, but once you started smoking ***** towards the end it went all insane. No I just need more time to explain them and run some numbers to get things balances. Any suggestions on said numbers are welcome.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Shinnen Edited by: Shinnen on 05/03/2006 09:40:35 Edited by: Shinnen on 05/03/2006 09:38:12 The Hawk should be a missile ship. Give it 4 missile hardpoints and a kinetic missile damage bonus. kthxbai I thought about making it a missile boat but wasn't sure since most AFs seem to be gun based. I will update my post with your idea as a option. Give lachesis 2 more low slots and 1 less med slot? It is a EW boat and does have bonuses to two med slot modules so having 7 meds is very much useful. Yes it will hurt your armor tech but you can't have everything. Keep Buzzard model the same please!! It is using the wrong base tech 1 frigate for the model. Why use a EW frigate model for a tech II scout frigate. With that logic tech II EW frigates will use tech I scout frigate models.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Gabriel Karade ...20km webifiers? I think Propulsion jamming as a whole would need re-working before you could think about bonuses like that... Webs in the game can already reach that range but said webs are rare. Faction ships do have a bonus to web range so it is not unheard of. I tried to avoid getting into modual changes but for the sake of balance it will need to be as well.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Forsch I think it's alot more useful if people discuss about changes and make suggestions, that really know the ships. Can you honestly say that you know all these ships well enough to make balancing suggestions? I know I couldn't. And reading your suggestions, some seem very odd indeed. Also if everyone now comments on the ships they fly and know, this thread will soon be total chaos. Like I said in my post you can't talk balance without including all other ships. Otherwise you are balancing against what? Oh and I have 4 main characters each with over 20 Mil SP and have flown, flown against, been ganged with and talked with others than have flown just about everyone of these ships. I also don't claim to have all the right ideas. If someone feels any of my ideas point out why that idea is wrong and what is needed to balance it.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Jim Steele Some good suggestions here but also some bad ones, and ultimately its the Dev's who decides what needs balancing not a forum post. True but player ideas do make it into changes. We have daily threads on people complaining how this or that ships is either over or under powered. Ok now is the chance for those people to prove it and hey CCP has and will continue to make changes.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also a big no-no to tech1 interdictors. They should be specialised ships (guess why skillbook costs 40mil) and noobs shouldn't be able to fly them in 2 weeks (month if counting spheres). The reason for that is the Tech 1 and Tech II destoryers are so differant in role. I do see your point and I will rethink my whole idea on destroyers. Ideas welcome.
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Shofix Umgeh Any post that suggests that to achieve balance the Megathron requires no changes loses any semblance of credibility in my eyes... That and a few other of the crazier suggestions just makes the OPs a more lengthy post to be disregarded... Changes to moduals is needed more to fix the Mega than ship bonuses itself. I did not want to get into modual changes. Yes I do fly the Mega BTW. Oh and if you are going to post you don't agree with some of my ideas it would be useful to point out why you don't agree and provide your own ideas. If you disregarded everything I posted then why even reply?
Valcoria	Posted - 2006.03.05 21:50:00 - [30] Originally by: Knoppaz Imho the Stabber could need a change. It seems to slightly prefer shield-tanking, but it doesn't really support it. A more usefull setup (imho) would be: High 5x (loose 1 high and share 1 for turret/launcher) 1. Turret 2. Turret 3. Turret 4. Turret/Launcher 5. Launcher Mid 4x Low 3x or even Mid 5x Low 2x tho the first option would be a bit more Matari I guess. ..just my 2 ISK Seeing it from your point of view yeah I could see giving the stabber another med. I would trade a low for a med. It would give it a better chance to shield tank and help it be used as a big inty. Now this is useful feedback even if it didn't agree with what I posted.

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