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Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2013.12.12 10:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi  ,
Im planning to get myself into FW. I got myself an prototype cerebral accelerator and some +3 implants last night.
My plan is to get cybernetics up to V asap so i get the most benefit out of having improved implants.
However when i start FW i dont want to risk flying around with a half a billion isk pod. So i need acess to jump clones. But becuase i am planning on staying in frigates for the forseeable future i doubt i will be able to grind up the 8.0? standing myself doing pve (and i dont want to either)
So are there any gallente FW corps with JC access (standings) out there that i can join?
Also Does anyone know if the cerbral acceleerator is lost upon death?
and finally is my plan of using the prototype cerebral accelerator with +3 implants (and then +4's once i have cybernetics IV) to get cybernetics V first the fastest way of doing things in the longrun?
Once my two weeks of cerebral acceleration is up i will probably get the standard cerebral accelerator. for an additional +3 to all stats along with my +5 implants.
Remap putting charisma as low as it will go (charisma implant aswell) and adding those points to all other skills.
is this the fastest plan?
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
2246
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 11:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
The cerebral accelerators will stay active even after death or jump cloning.
You can use EACS to get free jump clones. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2606
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 13:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:The cerebral accelerators will stay active even after death or jump cloning. You can use EACS to get free jump clones. If you want my opinion, you will get better overall value for your time by flying with cheap implants and playing all the time than jumping between a cheap and an expensive clone and having to take days off of EVE. (Unless you are forced to take some days off because of your life anyway.) Here's a free tip: Every skill's training speed is affected by only two attributes. For 98% of skills this is either PER/WIL or INT/MEM. You can therefore save a bunch of money by having a PER/WIL clone and an INT/MEM clone and jumping between them as you switch your skill training. You still get the full benefits, but you only need to replace two implants instead of four when you die.
I agree.
It's better to play every day and just have +3's (for instance) in your clone. Then to be forced to stay in a clone that has +5's for 19 - 24h (depending on skill level trained) and not do anything major.
Then again, having a +5 clone can be helpful if you go away from the game because of real life (for instance: You go on a 2 week holiday and can't log in. Time to jump to the +5 clone and add a skill that takes at least 2 weeks to train and go and have your holiday without having to worry about EVE).
Want to have some chat in game?
Need help to get into the game as a new player?
Just join my channel:
Crazy Dutch Guy |
Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 14:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
So maybe i should go for a compromise and just stick with +4's?
They cost a fifth of what +5's cost so i wouldn't mind flying with those...
and you right i will be spending most of my time in low sec.
I just want to get my training done asap.
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2607
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 15:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vandal Snow wrote:So maybe i should go for a compromise and just stick with +4's?
They cost a fifth of what +5's cost so i wouldn't mind flying with those...
and you right i will be spending most of my time in low sec.
I just want to get my training done asap.
If you can afford to replace +4's if needed...stick with them.
Just keep in mind that if you get podded, you will lose them.
Want to have some chat in game?
Need help to get into the game as a new player?
Just join my channel:
Crazy Dutch Guy |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
175
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 16:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:The cerebral accelerators will stay active even after death or jump cloning. Are you sure about that?
From what I heard, the cerebral accelerators will stay active after death, but not after jump cloning.
However, I've never used one myself, so I am not certain and that information might be outdated.
As for Cybernetics V: it takes about 10 months of training with +5 implants to get back the time spend training the skill. Oh and you will lose your clone by doing something stupid at some point. Therefore I'd stick with Cybernetics IV and +4s for the first year. |
IIR4MBOII
TEC-NOLOGY
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
2
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 17:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
I can assure you i have lost many new characters all with cerebral the most drastic was the 1bil variant
and you will lose them if podded.
you can lose your ship but not the pod.
do not die with them in
thanks
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Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
ok thanks for the tips every1 =) |
Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 16:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hi Ive got another question,
the first cerebral accelerator i used was the protype cerbral accelerator which gives +9 to all stats for 14 days.
The standard cerebreal accelerator gives +3 to all stats for 35 days
Once my prototype cerebral accelerator runs out will i be able to use the standard one for another 21 days?
thanks
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Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
176
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 20:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vandal Snow wrote:Once my prototype cerebral accelerator runs out will i be able to use the standard one for another 21 days?
Yes
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Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
58
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 04:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spam warp out button on a celestial BEFORE your ship explodes. I suggest you get some practice with your friends on warping out your pod. Get a rookie ship, have a friend in a fast locking ship blow you up and try to warp scram your pod.
With enough practice, you should almost never lose your pod in Empire space (LS, HS).
Run level 4 missions? -áIncrease your income and help new players earn ISK. -áJoin channel: Pro Synergy
Pro Synergy is looking for dedicated Salvagers. -áWant to learn more? -áJoin channel: Pro Synergy |
Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 14:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
thanks nikolai ill be sure to try that.
I also had an off topic question about orbiting.
i did some of the tutorials with an afterburner fitted to my ship. I hit orbit the enemy and started shooting.
now when i was approaching the enemy before i started to circle him i hit him very hard took his shields and a bit of armour.
then once i started orbiting i kept missing my target.
Is this because of transversal that i have read about?
if so i guess orbiting an enemy is bad because it makes them harder to hit. Is that correct?
should i just hit approach?
if what ive read about transversal is true then approaching an enemy would make me easier to hit as well and then it would just come down to who has the higher dps and tank. is any of this correct?
thanks
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Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 14:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vandal Snow wrote:if so i guess orbiting an enemy is bad because it makes them harder to hit. Is that correct? First, you might want to create a new thread if you completely change the topic, so that others with the same question can more easily find it.
Second, yes, that's the transversal you heard about and no, it's not necessarily bad.
Transversal is a double-edged sword, it makes it harder to hit for both you and your opponent. (Assuming you both use turrets - missiles are a different beast, they only look at your speed, not your direction.)
So yes, if you want to deal maximum damage, you want to keep your transversal low. But then, you also want to avoid taking damage, so you want to have a high transversal. In the end, you should look at tracking - tracking counters transversal, so if you have better tracking than your opponent, you want high transversal as it will hurt him more than you. Otherwise you want low transversal. This is especially true if you are fighting a different size - smaller weapons have much better tracking than medium or large weapons, so a Frigate will want high transversal when fighting a Cruiser or bigger. OTOH in a Battleship you must reduce transversal to almost zero to be able to hit a Frigate (usually, you get that by being 50+ km away.)
And of course, if dealing damage is more important than avoiding damage (because you know you can tank it and want to finish the mission quickly, because you think he has friends that will come help him soon, because it's a suicide gank, etc...), then you want as little transversal as possible.
To reduce transversal, you can- orbit at a larger distance
- orbit slower (turn off your afterburner and maybe even select a lower speed)
- stay at a distance and let them come to you - even fly away from your target
- fly in parallel ("look at" the target and match its speed and direction)
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Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 15:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
First thanks for your reply -->i updated the title so hopefully people will find it better.
So um wow transversal, yeah. I'm planning on getting into FW and staying in frigates for a looong time.
my plan is to get gallente frigates, tech II blasters and support skills maxed out asap. I'll be using the incursus mainly at first then upgrade into the assault frigate i forget the name.
I guess since blasters have the shortest range and the best tracking (or so ive read) i will do well orbiting people and managing my speed? like what i mean is i should be able to out-track them at least? (depending on what they are flying of course). But then if blasters have the best tracking i should be ok right?
Tracking then kinda reminds me of chance to hit stats from other games.
If so is it the most important stat if you plan on orbiting ur enemy? and should i do my best to max out this stat as much as possible?
what if i use the keep at distance command would that help in managing my transversal or just make me a sitting duck?
Also when in frigate pvp should i even orbit them , i read somewhere that most frigate battles are over in around a minute is that true?
pvp in this games sounds like it would be a ton of fun considering how you have to manage all of this stuff in a very short space of time. awesome.
thanks again for all the replies
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Jia Cato
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 19:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:
fly in parallel ("look at" the target and match its speed and direction)
[/list]
This is what I wanted to ask about the other day but forgot, I take it this means if I and someone else fly next to eachothers facing the same way, it does not matter even if our speed is 1km+/s since to eachothers we are standing still basically assuming we have the exact same speed? |
Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
hi again, after much reading and searching i found some intersting thread on reddit that says if you think your opponent has higher tracking than you do not orbit them.
so what happens when you have the higher tracking and your opponent decides to use the keep at range command rather than orbit you but you decide to orbit them?
I guess if im faster than him i will catch him orbit but what will their ship end up doing and how would this affect transversal? thanks
i guess since nobodys answering my questions much i should get out there and just try this stuff out... |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
385
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 16:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vandal Snow wrote:hi again, after much reading and searching i found some intersting thread on reddit that says if you think your opponent has higher tracking than you do not orbit them.
It's not that simple, really. If we're talking about an entire weight class worth of tracking distance (frigate Vs. cruiser) then, yeah, the slower tracker isn't going to want to be in an orbit. Within the same weight class, it's not so simple. For instance, maybe your opponent has slightly better tracking, and is buffer tanked, while you have slightly worse tracking but are active tanked.
Orbiting will reduce the damage you both take, and, yeah, it will reduce yours more than his, but if doing so reduces his damage to less than your sustainable repair, you can eventually wear through his buffer while permatanking his damage. |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vandal Snow wrote:I guess since blasters have the shortest range and the best tracking (or so ive read) i will do well orbiting people and managing my speed? like what i mean is i should be able to out-track them at least? (depending on what they are flying of course). But then if blasters have the best tracking i should be ok right?
In general yes. But there is considerably overlap.
E.g. while a Small Electron Blaster has the best tracking in game, a Small Neutron Blaster doesn't track quite as well and a 125mm Gatling AutoCannon will out-track a Small Neutron Blaster. But the neutron blaster still tracks better than a 200mm AutoCannon.
Vandal Snow wrote:Tracking then kinda reminds me of chance to hit stats from other games.
If so is it the most important stat if you plan on orbiting ur enemy? and should i do my best to max out this stat as much as possible? Not necessarily. You only need "enough". The way turret damage works, you will deal almost full damage if your angular speed is half of your tracking speed or less. An electron blaster with its 0.44 rad/second tracking will already miss extremely rarely, as you need a very fast&agile ship to orbit at over 0.20 rad/second.
Jia Cato wrote:Thomas Builder wrote:
fly in parallel ("look at" the target and match its speed and direction)
This is what I wanted to ask about the other day but forgot, I take it this means if I and someone else fly next to eachothers facing the same way, it does not matter even if our speed is 1km+/s since to eachothers we are standing still basically assuming we have the exact same speed? Yes. As you are standing still to each other, transversal velocity will be 0.
Vandal Snow wrote:so what happens when you have the higher tracking and your opponent decides to use the keep at range command rather than orbit you but you decide to orbit them? Try it out. But in general those commands are quite stupid and cope badly with changing situations. E.g. it is possible to trick the "orbit at" program into flying in parallel with you. It's still sometimes useful, especially when you are much faster than your target (e.g. Frigate vs. Battleship), but you will want to learn flying manually. (= double-click in space to start flying in that direction.) |
Nick Starkey
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
8
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 19:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tracking and transversal only affect turret based systems. Missiles, bombs and drones use their own formulas (altough drones have a similar calculation to turrets).
Damage from turret weapons is not constant, it depends on your ability to control the engagement, and this will affect both your damage and chance to hit. Tracking is basically a measure of how well your gun can hit moving targets: just think of it as the speed as it can turn around to catch up with enemy movement. This speed is measured in radians per second, which is its angular velocity. The ability to track also depends on the target's size (in this case, signature radius). Smaller ships are harder to hit and vice versa. The other factor that affects damage and hit chance is the weapon's signature resolution, which is higher for smaller weapons and lower for bigger weapons. This basically means that larger guns have more difficulty at hitting smaller targets.
For best damage in turret weapons you want to keep angular velocity to a minimum. If the circunstances are right, even a large turret can hit small and fast moving targets reliably.
Reducing angular velocity can be done in several ways:
-slowing down the target's velocity means they can not create such wide angles with their flight
-increasing your distance to the target (assuming the target keeps its trajectory) will give you a smaller angular velocity (the further away you are, the smaller the arc created by the other ship is to yourself)
-match the target's flight. If both are moving in the same direction, angular velocity will be zero. This is why a small, fast moving ship can easily be destroyer by a larger weapon if it's flying straight to it.
There is also the factor of optimal and falloff ranges. Optimal range is the distance where your guns hit the hardest, and quickly start degrating as they enter falloff ranges. For reference, you deal full damage anywhere inside your optimal range, and it starts dropping to around ~50% damage and chance to hit as you approach the far edge of falloff. At optimal + 2x falloff, your chance to hit is basically 0%.
Each turret weapon has varying effective ranges and tracking. Autocannons have small optimal range and very large falloffs, and decent tracking. Artillery have larger optimal and average falloff but very poor tracking. Blasters have extremly short optimal and falloff, but the highest tracking and potential damage. Railguns have very long optimals and falloffs, with average tracking. Pulse and Beam lasers operate mostly within their very generous optimal range, but suffer from tracking issues. |
Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 10:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
wow thanks for all your replies, this stuff is really helping me learn. Im hoping to finally take the dive into FW soon. I should have t2 hybrids by sat morning, then ill move onto getting gallente frigate V.
Following that weapon upgrades 4 and cpu management 4.
I have a bunch of other skills up to 3 already, rapid firing, surgical strike etc.
All in all i should be ready to start by next weekend hopefully. I know that i could get started right away but i really want a good chance of winning an engagement.
Also i think it might surprise some people if such a young pilot has decent skills becuase i have specialised (at least thats what my brother says anyway)
I think i'm going to put angular velocity on my overview (i noticed it there under options last night), for some reason my bro only set it up to show velocity which i guess must be important too or he wouldn't have put it there lol).
If i want a decent chance of winning an engagement will level 4 skills + t2 weaponry be enough?
Thanks |
Cara Forelli
Darkstorm Corporation
80
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Posted - 2013.12.19 13:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Here is an excellent video describing turret mechanics and manual piloting to take advantage of them.
www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
Nick Starkey
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 13:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
The main thing about FW fights is to usually know what to engage. Some ships have a natural advantage over others, depending on your current fit. Also train thermodynamics if you want to stand a chance in more fights. |
Vandal Snow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 14:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
awesome video, thanks!
Its really helped my understanding of what to do and even showed a bit of manual piloting.
My only concern is it showed spiralling vs a battleship sized target when using a frigate. so the effective tracking speed of the bs guns would have been very low.
Im planning on staying in frigates for a while and hopefully only engaging frigates. I think i need to be in the novice or small plex for this?
Anyway if im fighting frigates the signature resolution of their guns will be much smaller so they will track me better even when im spiraling or orbiting. Also i guess manual piloting against frigates is much harder becuase they are much faster and have better overall tracking.
All that centering them on the screen and clicking around them would it even be possible against something that moves so fast?
I guess one solution is to use a web. So thats one thing i can try.
Also will put thermodynamics on the list. ive heard that this is a must for frigate pvp and that i should overheat my modules from the start of the fight.
thanks again for your replies |
Cara Forelli
Darkstorm Corporation
81
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 15:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vandal Snow wrote:Anyway if im fighting frigates the signature resolution of their guns will be much smaller so they will track me better even when im spiraling or orbiting. Also i guess manual piloting against frigates is much harder becuase they are much faster and have better overall tracking.
That is true, and it's the reason I think frigate PvP is actually quite difficult. Unfortunately it's also by far the cheapest, so it's still the best way to learn. The same concepts apply, but you will use them differently. You can't just blindly spiral toward another frigate and hope to live, but you can use the concept of traversal to your advantage. For instance, blasters have excellent tracking, so orbiting your target can cause them to miss while your guns can still track well. Artillery has terrible tracking, so orbiting your target will destroy your own dps. Of course, there are many other considerations, like tank type, speed, and paper dps.
Thermo is a great skill to have for frigate fights because they are normally very short. Be careful not to burn out your mods though. Occasionally you'll get a long fight where you are trying to chip through a large buffer tank while active tanking yourself. I've been left with a burnt-out prop mod before when I wasn't careful and it lost me the fight QUICKLY.
www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
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