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Refining Tax

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Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.09 17:23:00 - [1] i was think while mining where i get most my think done. For mining corps who dont Rat or kill people for a living. we mine then make a ship and sell it. The hard part is getting everybody to come to a mining op and give up there game time to mine and give all there mats to the corp. Soo sense their is a Tax for rat bounties. why not a Refining Tax where when you refine a small amount goes to the corp to be used for building later! What do other mining corps or players think about this idea?
Ilya Murametz	Posted - 2006.03.09 17:32:00 - [2] Already in-game, you just have to get a little fleet of Dreadnaughts, few hundred players, few Player Owned Stations, freighters/carriers/titans. and go take over one of the regions. And then you can tax people all you want
Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.09 17:44:00 - [3] Originally by: Ilya Murametz Already in-game, you just have to get a little fleet of Dreadnaughts, few hundred players, few Player Owned Stations, freighters/carriers/titans. and go take over one of the regions. And then you can tax people all you want well i was more thinking of the corp for refining. maybe you didnt know this but if your corp has a 5% they get 5% of bounties and other things. so if you kill a rat for 10000k they will get 500 isk of the 10k. just want something like this for refining. mainly cuz i hate going to ops and would rather do this to help out my corp.
Jacinth Troll	Posted - 2006.03.09 17:59:00 - [4] Our CEO has set up fair market prices for all the minerals. When we mine, we can either sell the minerals on the open market and chase fluctuating prices, or we can sell to our CEO. The CEO then builds the ships, sells them and puts the money right into the corp wallet which is being built up for the eventual purchase of BPO's. By having a fair price we get the convenience of knowing we can sell quickly and not even have to refine. The CEO has perfect refining skills as does the mining director (me) who is also authorized to pay out on any minerals mined by fellow corp members. Whatever we come up short on for minerals when it comes time to build is just purchased by the CEO for the best prices he can get. It has been working well for us so far. Making Big Rocks into little rocks http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/tcgs/jacsized.jpg Your Sig is to large, please read the forum rules - Ductoris
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2006.03.09 18:00:00 - [5] I like the idea, taxing miners makes more sense then taxing npcers since the miners mine while the pvpers cover the terriotory we used to use a simular system in the old CA but it kept playing up since some people would actually be prepaired to travel 30 jumps (pre-freightor)with the ore and refine it in an npc station.
Da Death	Posted - 2006.03.09 18:02:00 - [6] As CEO I like that idea Absolution 250m - Curse 120m - Set 350m! ->Click here<-
Quanteeri	Posted - 2006.03.09 19:22:00 - [7] It not really a bad idea, though it would be hard to implement. It would be easy if you refined in a station where the corp has an office. The taxed mins could be transferred directly to the corp coffers, but what about other stations without offices? Would the tax still be in effect? If so, where would the mins be placed? As a delivery?
Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.09 19:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Quanteeri It not really a bad idea, though it would be hard to implement. It would be easy if you refined in a station where the corp has an office. The taxed mins could be transferred directly to the corp coffers, but what about other stations without offices? Would the tax still be in effect? If so, where would the mins be placed? As a delivery? maybe it would have settings like putting up a buy order. wont take effect from so many jumps away from HQ. if there is no office i would say delivery. give some of those lazy haulers in the corp a job.
Quanteeri	Posted - 2006.03.09 19:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Oventoasted Originally by: Quanteeri It not really a bad idea, though it would be hard to implement. It would be easy if you refined in a station where the corp has an office. The taxed mins could be transferred directly to the corp coffers, but what about other stations without offices? Would the tax still be in effect? If so, where would the mins be placed? As a delivery? maybe it would have settings like putting up a buy order. wont take effect from so many jumps away from HQ. if there is no office i would say delivery. give some of those lazy haulers in the corp a job. I think you're on to something. Nice sig btw.
Agrilad	Posted - 2006.03.09 19:39:00 - [10] It would probably just get placed in the corp deliveries hangar. Same as if you buy something with corp wallet from a distance. Or someone sells something to corp on corp buy orders.
Juki Lee	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Oventoasted ...so if you kill a rat for 10000k they will get... Holy crap on a warthog, where did you find a 10000k rat?
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Juki Lee Originally by: Oventoasted ...so if you kill a rat for 10000k they will get... Holy crap on a warthog, where did you find a 10000k rat? There are actually a few officers with about 10m bounties. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Naverin	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:18:00 - [13] build an outpost.... have people refine.. you get mineral tax.. enjoy. ______________________ I am the carebear... who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.10 01:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Juki Lee Originally by: Oventoasted ...so if you kill a rat for 10000k they will get... Holy crap on a warthog, where did you find a 10000k rat? heh come out to .4 space there are nothing but 70k-100k rats also glad to see supports for this maybe it might get looked at.
Juki Lee	Posted - 2006.03.10 04:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Oventoasted Originally by: Juki Lee Originally by: Oventoasted ...so if you kill a rat for 10000k they will get... Holy crap on a warthog, where did you find a 10000k rat? heh come out to .4 space there are nothing but 70k-100k rats also glad to see supports for this maybe it might get looked at. 100k does not = 10000k 10000k is 10,000,000 ISK bounty, the level of elite officer spawns.
Nanos	Posted - 2006.03.10 08:10:00 - [16] I do this in my corp, there is a 10% refine tax. Why 10%, its easy to figure out, just move minerals and take off last digit! How it works is thus; Corp member has post office audit cans in a corp hanger, labelled INBOX and OUTBOX, password protected so only them and refiner can open them. They mine, put it in their OUTBOX and email refiner, who then at a time convient to them, refines it, takes off 10% and puts the minerals in their INBOX, emails them back to tell them. During mining operations with several players, against audit containers, only this time they are setup to lock with password to unlock, haulers dump all into same audit can in a corp hanger, with bookmarks as labels detailing who gets a share. After operation, refiner is emailed, who then does their job and leaves shares in everyones INBOX audit can in the post office corp hanger. We also run mining weeks, so if someone during that time is online and no ore is being produced to be refined, obviously isn't using the refining services of the corp and thus not paying taxes :-) Incidently the refine tax goes towards inventory, eg. stock for corp, be it ammo/equipment/ships.
Angelic Resolution	Posted - 2006.03.10 09:19:00 - [17] Sounds good to me. I'd like to be able to give 10% without thinking about it though. Make life simple.
Blighter	Posted - 2006.03.10 10:03:00 - [18] Why should the players who run missions, NPC pay taxes, while others do not? Though Idon;t think a refining tax is the way, making all income taxable, based on the tax rate, would solve the problem. Kill a Million isk rat, get taxed whatever tax rate is. Sell a Million isk worth of Trit, get taxed whatever the tax rate it. Keeping the Minerals for building, whell, that's making you stronger, and making the corp stronger. But mining to sell minerals is like mission running for isk, or ratting for isk, and should be taxable.
Frensezz	Posted - 2006.03.10 11:01:00 - [19] I dont think its fair that those who refine stuff has to pay tax.. what should they pay tax of ?? you dont get isk for Refining ore, loot and other stuff, you get MINERALS !! The corp gets the Tax, when the minerals are sold and No other tax is needed !! Ells you could add tax to everything in eve... attacking people, mining, jumping, docking, undocking, warping etc ... this is just pure LAME !! So I vote NO ! ----------------------------------------------- Regards A.U.C.
Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Frensezz I dont think its fair that those who refine stuff has to pay tax.. what should they pay tax of ?? you dont get isk for Refining ore, loot and other stuff, you get MINERALS !! The corp gets the Tax, when the minerals are sold and No other tax is needed !! Ells you could add tax to everything in eve... attacking people, mining, jumping, docking, undocking, warping etc ... this is just pure LAME !! So I vote NO ! sir you misunderstand. i am saying that this refine will take minerals not isk. so lets say you refine 100 trit worth of ore lets not forget so much goes to the station as payment so that 5 trit gone then alos some is lost do to your crappy refine skills so thats another 10 trit gone also with your 10% refine tax your corp will also take 10 trit. that is what i want to see. not a isk tax which we already have.
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:32:00 - [21] I have a number of people in my corp who strictly mine and rarely run into a rat while mining, that actually gets taxed. I also have a number of people in my corp who strictly NPC (missions, complexes, etc.). They are always taxed. The only time the miners in my corporation effectively contribute to the corp is on Op Days and that is definitely not fair to the NPCers in the corp, who are forced to contribute by in-game mechanics, every time they kill an NPC. I would like to see a tax that affects all income of the the members or a "Mining Tax" that has been suggested here in some form.
M3ta7h3ad	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:35:00 - [22] Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 10/03/2006 17:34:58 Where do mission people get taxed by the factions and npc corps? Miners do. I currently get a 89% refine, 11% is lost to the station due to standings, and some is also "taken" by the station as tax... then I'll have to pay an extra 10% tax on top!? WTF... no. Bring in "concord tax" for bounties, and missions then I'd consider it as a good idea. Miners already get taxed to hell and back already, either lessen the NPC taxes and include a corp tax, or add taxes to everything. ----- Memorable Quotes <Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE
Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:39:00 - [23] Originally by: M3ta7h3ad Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 10/03/2006 17:34:58 Where do mission people get taxed by the factions and npc corps? Miners do. I currently get a 89% refine, 11% is lost to the station due to standings, and some is also "taken" by the station as tax... then I'll have to pay an extra 10% tax on top!? WTF... no. Bring in "concord tax" for bounties, and missions then I'd consider it as a good idea. Miners already get taxed to hell and back already, either lessen the NPC taxes and include a corp tax, or add taxes to everything. then stay in a corp where they dont have a Refine tax. just like you can go to a corp who doesnt have any normal tax. this tax is for the Corp who dont want to buy off there own members ore or have members donate large amounts of mins they worked there ass off to get. this will be a small tax that the corp leader can select so they can get a steady flow of mins but not have to play go out and spend 3 hours mining and give me all that you mined.
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:47:00 - [24] Originally by: M3ta7h3ad Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 10/03/2006 17:34:58 Where do mission people get taxed by the factions and npc corps? Miners do. I currently get a 89% refine, 11% is lost to the station due to standings, and some is also "taken" by the station as tax... then I'll have to pay an extra 10% tax on top!? WTF... no. Bring in "concord tax" for bounties, and missions then I'd consider it as a good idea. Miners already get taxed to hell and back already, either lessen the NPC taxes and include a corp tax, or add taxes to everything. You can reduce the tax by raising your standing with the owner of the station. You can also reduce how much you lose by raising your refining skills.
M3ta7h3ad	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:51:00 - [25] I prefer to do it my way. Mine for a "second" imaginary player. Yes its a 50% tax, but I do it when I feel I can contribute something to the corps coffers :) Of course if the corp asks specifically for mins, then I'll happily mine 100% for the corp. I dont see the need for an additional tax on miners when there arent taxes on bounties or mission runners. :) ----- Memorable Quotes <Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE
M3ta7h3ad	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: M3ta7h3ad Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 10/03/2006 17:34:58 Where do mission people get taxed by the factions and npc corps? Miners do. I currently get a 89% refine, 11% is lost to the station due to standings, and some is also "taken" by the station as tax... then I'll have to pay an extra 10% tax on top!? WTF... no. Bring in "concord tax" for bounties, and missions then I'd consider it as a good idea. Miners already get taxed to hell and back already, either lessen the NPC taxes and include a corp tax, or add taxes to everything. You can reduce the tax by raising your standing with the owner of the station. You can also reduce how much you lose by raising your refining skills. Agreed... however we're penalised from the start, where as bounty runners and mission runners are not. They get full bounty, then the corp gets a cut. We have to work our way up to a full payment, which takes ages (especially faction standing) if your not a missioner but more industrial. And if we move stations or homes we get penalised again, so it starts over. ----- Memorable Quotes <Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.03.10 18:11:00 - [27] With level 3 refining, 1 can of pyrox can net you around 2 mil (with sell orders). Takes around 1 hour to fill a can with a retriever for the new players. There should be a mining tax OR an income tax in general, instead of restricting the tax to just bounties/mission rewards.
Kylania	Posted - 2006.03.10 18:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Lisento Slaven You can reduce the tax by raising your standing with the owner of the station. You can also reduce how much you lose by raising your refining skills. 6.7 standing with a corp will give 0% We Take Tax. -- Lil Miner
Quanteeri	Posted - 2006.03.10 18:21:00 - [29] Originally by: M3ta7h3ad Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: M3ta7h3ad Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 10/03/2006 17:34:58 Where do mission people get taxed by the factions and npc corps? Miners do. I currently get a 89% refine, 11% is lost to the station due to standings, and some is also "taken" by the station as tax... then I'll have to pay an extra 10% tax on top!? WTF... no. Bring in "concord tax" for bounties, and missions then I'd consider it as a good idea. Miners already get taxed to hell and back already, either lessen the NPC taxes and include a corp tax, or add taxes to everything. You can reduce the tax by raising your standing with the owner of the station. You can also reduce how much you lose by raising your refining skills. Agreed... however we're penalised from the start, where as bounty runners and mission runners are not. They get full bounty, then the corp gets a cut. We have to work our way up to a full payment, which takes ages (especially faction standing) if your not a missioner but more industrial. And if we move stations or homes we get penalised again, so it starts over. You are correct though the most you can lose in station owner refining taxes is 5%. Where as NPCers can lose up to 10% to home corp taxes. That leaves a gap of a max of 5% that the home corp could feasibly tax for refining, which really isn't all that unreasonable. Refining amounts lost to bad skills, in this discussion should be nullified. You lose mins due to bad skills, ok, though NPCers lose time and money also, due to bad skills. For an NPCer, bad skills means more money spent on ammunition and more time to kill an individual NPC. With mining, bad skils give a bad refine and a bad ratio of mins/time. To me, those are fairly equal, thus feel they are moot points here. I think a max 5% mineral refine tax should/would be the extent that this could be negotiated.
Nanos	Posted - 2006.03.10 21:55:00 - [30] If one person in the corp does all the refining, and has perfect skills and good enough standing so no NPC tax is taken, this would be most efficient. Then you'd squeese every last piece of rock out of the situation and if its taxed, you'd hardly notice it..

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