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Why can't I switch off my engine?

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Qen Yin	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:13:00 - [1] Ok, I'm new on this forum (and barely a month old in the game), so bare with me. Why is it that you do not float infinitely in space, like you would in "real" space, in this game? For instance, when I hit my afterburners, and they run out of energy, why the heck do I lose speed? There's no force in space that I know of slowing me down, and I could hardly see the point in having counter-thrusters (that aren't visually available either). So, why does this game not care for inertia? (Sorry if this has already been answered 10000 times before, I couldn't find a search function for this forum).
Faith Rose	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:22:00 - [2] The thing is this game is not real and the programers are the gods here. ------------- Death Is Contagous
spidster	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:23:00 - [3] ^^ beat me to it
DubanXtrme	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:25:00 - [4] not to mention the fact that since you tell your ship to stop, maybe just maybe your ship has half a computer to actually stop "relative to your surroundings instead of floating mindlessly in space. So it's easier to mine and crap.
Qen Yin	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:27:00 - [5] Originally by: DubanXtrme not to mention the fact that since you tell your ship to stop, maybe just maybe your ship has half a computer to actually stop "relative to your surroundings instead of floating mindlessly in space. So it's easier to mine and crap. Yes, yes of course. But...
Valkazm	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:28:00 - [6] lol a ship that dosent stop yeah that would loads of fun .. but in terms of realism this is what you do close your eyes and imagine there is a beam moving in the other direction of the way your facing that forces you to stop... then open your eyes and voila it all makes sence and you have stopped
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:37:00 - [7] The vast majority of space games treat in-game physics as if space was filled with water. EVE is no exception. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Oventoasted	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:43:00 - [8] X3 lets you float on forever if you dont hit reverse thrusters.
Synex	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:44:00 - [9] Its because your wearing cotton underwear with nylon trousers.. it creates friction. And static electricity too, which is used to power your capacitor.
Juki Lee	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:45:00 - [10] Because it wouldn't be fun to float forever. Airplane physics and maximum speeds were implimented because they found that it was more fun and understandable. Would you play a game which required you to precisely calculate thrust vectors? Where you had to make sure you had the Delta-V reserve to hold station around an orbiting asteroid for hours, then get back home safe without running out of fuel?
Matthew	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:45:00 - [11] Well, we know that what we actually see is actually a feed from camera drones, rather than a real view. Therefore we can say that it's possible that the image is processed somewhat before it reaches our eyes (or screen). Therefore, just because Eve space looks empty, doesn't mean it is. It's entirely possible that the Eve galaxy is actually within a dense nebula field. This would give you some semblance of "air resistance" from the interstellar gasses (which, incidentally, are present everywhere in space, but usually at such low densities as to be negligable), leading to the fight model we see. This would also help explain why the Eve sky is far more colourful and nebula-filled than the real sky. Of course, the truth is rather more mundane - full newtonian physics simply wouldn't make for a good game. It would be confusing for players and a nightmare to balance. Just think about the AB, how unbalanced would it be if you only needed one cycle to get you up to straight-line speed? Or if you could continue accelerating indefinitely? It would lead to much more realistic space battles, but true realism in this case isn't fun. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.09 22:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Oventoasted X3 lets you float on forever if you dont hit reverse thrusters. But it has a maximum speed. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Ishen Villone	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Ishen Villone on 09/03/2006 23:05:23 Short story? It's a game. Edit: here's a sciencey explanation. Your warp drive has to operate in a different manner to normal engines in order to accelerate a ship to faster than light speeds. The warp drive operates with another dimension or spacewarping or some crap, which creates "drag" from another dimension. There.
ToxicFire	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:24:00 - [14] Aye its true the point and click control style doesn't suit a newtonian type physics engine. It would require swapping out point and click for a more in the*****pit hands on the joystick style of play which would frankly in combat be rather nice to be able to slew around opponent pumping round after round into the side of them while they struggler to manuver to keep you in their sights, when it comes to stuff like moving items about hauling cargo and mining it would become rather cumbersum and tiring. I've played many game's that have had a similar concept of eve using a flight engine, and they've always down played aspects of non combat.
sallyr	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:30:00 - [15] Edited by: sallyr on 09/03/2006 23:30:43 GRAVITONS!!!!!!!!! dark matter tbh like we understand squat about the universe atm . . .seriously we really dont and this is an alternate universe . . .eve can make up what ever it wants and it still stands because this is a compleatly different universe to our own! but yes there are lots and lots of things wrong with eves physics . . but if it was right then it would be stupid wouldnt it! you could go infinatly close to the speed of light getting infinatly heavy and taking infinatly long to get to your destenation. so say you set off to go to the other end of the universe . . u get there and the thing you brought is now pointless to that time! real life sucks . . play eve the way the world should be (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Bhuknar Hhallas	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Qen Yin Ok, I'm new on this forum (and barely a month old in the game), so bare with me. Why is it that you do not float infinitely in space, like you would in "real" space, in this game? For instance, when I hit my afterburners, and they run out of energy, why the heck do I lose speed? There's no force in space that I know of slowing me down, and I could hardly see the point in having counter-thrusters (that aren't visually available either). So, why does this game not care for inertia? (Sorry if this has already been answered 10000 times before, I couldn't find a search function for this forum). I was thinking that as well. I would be nice if you could have an option to shut off all your systems and become undectable from anything.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:02:00 - [17] It's funny how people ask about this so often, but noone ever ask how rats respawn or where the cans from destroyed ships come from
Pantheon Lea	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Synex Its because your wearing cotton underwear with nylon trousers... I Fly Naked, don't anyone ? Pantheon Lea Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers - We mean you no harm
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Pantheon Lea Originally by: Synex Its because your wearing cotton underwear with nylon trousers... I Fly Naked, don't anyone ? You don't look very naked?
Doc Love	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:11:00 - [20] There's a game out there called Jumpgate that has more realistic physics (i.e. only acceleration rates, no top speed, you have intertia based on your mass, etc). It's also a joystick game, so not only do you have to understand the physics, you have to learn to pilot in them. Needless to say the skill learning curve is a bit steep, but once you get the hang of it, it's tremendously rewarding, and the dogfights are just awesome - you know your drop-down menu "orbit" option in EVE? People in Jumpgate do that of their own piloting skill, while they have their fixed guns turned inward (no shoot-any-direction turrets thank you!) peppering you with laser or projectile fire. When you're piloting a freighter it's like an oil tanker in the ocean where you have to make your navigational moves way in advance if you have a heavy load because it takes so long to stop and change your direction of inertia. Anyway, long story short, I'd highly recommend the game if you're interested in exploring realistic physics (if it's still around), I guess most game developers just don't think the average gamer is capabile of dealing with it. Any they might be right, Jumpgate always suffered from population problems because the skill factor in flying and fighting in realistic space is tough. I would probably be still playing it today if the pops weren't so low and if the economy, ships, and options had been more developed like Eve's.
Asane	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:15:00 - [21] JG's still alive? Man that game was sweet. Then again it was a space-sim
Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:19:00 - [22] A Wizard Did It (tm) __________________ Retard's handbook
Doc Love	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Doc Love on 10/03/2006 00:20:37 Yeah it was still alive last I knew. Truly visionary game imho, just not enough people aware of it or having the skill to play it to make it more successful long term. Seems like the gaming world has turned to the "pick-up-and-play" console games instead of a more realistic, difficult, in-depth simulator like Jumpgate. Of course if they haven't updated the graphics engine by now it would appear rather dated.
Cipher Khadaffi	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:39:00 - [24] hehe ive actually had to argue w a friend about this subject, becuase of eve he was under tha impression real life space worked in tah same way as eve space best explanation i could offer aside from jus plain game code was ur highly advanced space craft likly have inertial stabalizers or dampners built in for ease of piloting if u notice ur ship will also attempt to put itself on a horizontal plain when it stops moving reguardless of wich ever direction it was pointing in while moving =============================================== sig..
Nuri Aderynn	Posted - 2006.03.10 00:40:00 - [25] If you're looking for (semi) realistic physics hunt down the I-War games. Still my favourite space games of all time.
Algerion	Posted - 2006.03.10 01:20:00 - [26] The MMO called JumpGate was like this. Real (close to) space physics. Thing is..if u didnt fire retro rockets in a fully loaded transport like 1 billion km from station, you crashed into the station lol. Was a decent game for a bit.
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.03.10 01:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Dark Shikari The vast majority of space games treat in-game physics as if space was filled with water. EVE is no exception. Independance War 2 had some very realistic space physics. There was no friction and you could indeed reach enormous speeds by constantly accelerating. Of course stopping was interesting as you needed to counter thrust against inertia. There was one mission I'll never forget, I had to take out a heavily guarded weapon platform. By the time I'd taken down the defences I was badly in need of repair so I'd strafe it travelling at several km/sec and it just couldn't hit me. It took a while though. Some great dog fights in that game, nice story too. If I ever replace my joystick I might dig it out again one day. Game mechanics wise it wouldn't work too good in Eve. "I cannot hear what you say for the thunder of what you are." - Zulu proverb.
ReaperOfSly	Posted - 2006.03.10 02:00:00 - [28] My uni network blocks jumpgate for some reason. If it didn't, I'd spend most of my time on that instead of EVE. There was a certain amount of drag in it but much less than in EVE. If you had a hauler packed to the gunnels with iridium or uranium or something, drag would make very little difference to you since you'd never even get close to top speed even in big long sectors. Easy prey for them ickle piwats . -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Razin	Posted - 2006.03.10 02:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Matthew Well, we know that what we actually see is actually a feed from camera drones, rather than a real view. Therefore we can say that it's possible that the image is processed somewhat before it reaches our eyes (or screen). Therefore, just because Eve space looks empty, doesn't mean it is. It's entirely possible that the Eve galaxy is actually within a dense nebula field. This would give you some semblance of "air resistance" from the interstellar gasses (which, incidentally, are present everywhere in space, but usually at such low densities as to be negligable), leading to the fight model we see. This would also help explain why the Eve sky is far more colourful and nebula-filled than the real sky.... This would also cause all the stellar objects orbiting stars to de-orbit rather quickly and fall into those stars. Also, someone needs to redo the fiction on the camera drone. A computer simulated virtual view projected onto pod-pilots retinas is much better then depending on an extremely vulnerable floating camera for tactical information.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.03.10 03:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Qen Yin Ok, I'm new on this forum (and barely a month old in the game), so bare with me. Why is it that you do not float infinitely in space, like you would in "real" space, in this game? For instance, when I hit my afterburners, and they run out of energy, why the heck do I lose speed? There's no force in space that I know of slowing me down, and I could hardly see the point in having counter-thrusters (that aren't visually available either). So, why does this game not care for inertia? (Sorry if this has already been answered 10000 times before, I couldn't find a search function for this forum). The afterburner part is easy actually - you're limited to a "safe speed" at which your ship's shielding and thrusters can handle any collisions with other spacecraft. When you deactivate an afterburner or microwarp drive, your ship has to go back down to the general safespeed. The afterburner or microwarp drive is still firing, but in reverse. (all sorts of other technobabble approaches to it) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Johnny Twoshoe	Posted - 2006.03.10 03:48:00 - [31] "Also, someone needs to redo the fiction on the camera drone. A computer simulated virtual view projected onto pod-pilots retinas is much better then depending on an extremely vulnerable floating camera for tactical information." They tried something like that, I believe. Caused extreme nausea and disorientation. ~ We move in circles Balanced all the while On a gleaming razor's edge A perfect sphere Colliding with our fate This story ends where it began
BlueSmok	Posted - 2006.03.10 06:25:00 - [32] Free real space flight Sim, very sweet looking and has multiplayer! Babylon 5 "I've Found Her" *If you're not flying with Hippies, you're not having FUN.*
Razin	Posted - 2006.03.10 14:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Johnny Twoshoe "Also, someone needs to redo the fiction on the camera drone. A computer simulated virtual view projected onto pod-pilots retinas is much better then depending on an extremely vulnerable floating camera for tactical information." They tried something like that, I believe. Caused extreme nausea and disorientation. Yes, and they need to fix this bit of fiction because it doesn't make sense.
NotoMM	Posted - 2006.03.10 15:12:00 - [34] Edited by: NotoMM on 10/03/2006 15:12:42 Originally by: Dark Shikari The vast majority of space games treat in-game physics as if space was filled with water. The original and best space game treated space as space. And was a better game because of it.
Wulfstan	Posted - 2006.03.10 15:25:00 - [35] Edited by: Wulfstan on 10/03/2006 15:32:10 Originally by: Asane It's funny how people ask about this so often, but noone ever ask how rats respawn or where the cans from destroyed ships come from Heh, there's a quote somewhere, that says it's easy to persuade people to swallow the big "impossible" lies, but difficult to get people to believe little stretches of the truth. Jumpgates - check Tractor beams - check Building all tech 1 stuff from varying combinations of 7 different types of Playdoh - check Innacurracies in the thrust system - Like no way dude you've gotta be fscking kidding me! Edit: I've found the quote, and oh dear, it was **** in Mein Kampf: "The great mass of people à will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one." Adolf ****, Mein Kampf, vol. 1, ch. 10 (1925). I think that means I lose all teh future interweb arguments or summat - I'll get me coat. Edit 2: You've got to be kidding me! I can't write H-i-t-l-e-r here? Come on people some of us are adults!
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.03.10 15:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Wulfstan Originally by: Asane It's funny how people ask about this so often, but noone ever ask how rats respawn or where the cans from destroyed ships come from Heh, there's a quote somewhere, that says it's easy to persuade people to swallow the big "impossible" lies, but difficult to get people to believe little stretches of the truth. Jumpgates - check Tractor beams - check Building all tech 1 stuff from varying combimations of 7 different types of Playdoh - check Innacurracies in the thrust system - Like no way dude you've gotta be fscking kidding me! LMAO, so true. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

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