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Stop and think, too many things are going to hit Amarr ships at once.

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Ends	Posted - 2003.09.08 03:55:00 - [1] 1. CPU phontonics nerfed down to 8ish % 50 cpu boost in Apoc not enough to compensate. Right now my mining Apocs with 6 Miner II's and 2 heavy mod beams use up all but 50 cpu with a large shield booster, 2 small armour/hull repairers and 1 scanner and 3 damage mods in the low slots, using 2 photonic cpu boosters. How in the world am I going to use less than 4 low slots to get the CPU I need now? What happens when I want to mount something besides cruiser class lazers or frigate class armour repairers? 2. Thacyon nerf, My Apocs can now mount 3 Thacyons with stock powergrid due to the 1000 powergrid nerf on Chaos (4750). Thats not a fighting ship. I have to use how many low slots to get enough powergrid to make my apoc fit enough Thacyons to fight well? Not to mention the falloff nerf and activation cost increase. And my power is going to be gone in moments. The bottom line is the Amarr battlships are going to come out of this next patch as gimps. The entire low slot array will be filled with boosters to just mount the weapons it takes to keep up with what other classes ships can mount without low slot mods. This isn't really what CCP wants to do is it? Its not like the Apoc and Arma were overpowered flavor of the month ships in the first place. With these changes my ships will barely be able to mount a good mining set up. Comon CCP, don't do this.
Ends	Posted - 2003.09.08 03:59:00 - [2] Also on a side note, what is the point of tech lvl two, with regard to CPU boosters if you just nerf lvl 1 backward and set lvl 2 at the previous lvl 1? Thats not good for gameplay or cust satsifaction. I for one am not here to have to rebuy everything at each tech lvl just to keep up with the nerfs to keep even with my old performance lvl.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.09.08 04:44:00 - [3] Yes and shield hardener nerf which works highly to their advantage.. Apoc is not the only ship with CPU problems. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.09.08 06:23:00 - [4] Quote: 2. Thacyon nerf, My Apocs can now mount 3 Thacyons with stock powergrid due to the 1000 powergrid nerf on Chaos (4750). Thats not a fighting ship. I have to use how many low slots to get enough powergrid to make my apoc fit enough Thacyons to fight well? Not to mention the falloff nerf and activation cost increase. And my power is going to be gone in moments. I hate all the attention the Tachyon lasers are getting. They are extremely high damage, long range weapons. Very much akin to the Howitzer class projectile weapons. Did you ever stop to consider that maybe you were never meant to equip a large number of them? Just like the Howitzer class projectile weapons? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.09.08 06:30:00 - [5] ROFL OMFG NOOB LOOK TACHYON IS SUPPOZED 2 HAVE BEST RANGE, DAMAGE, TRACKING, AND ROF OF ALL TEH WEAPONS, LOSAR. WHY CANT I EQUIP 8 OF THEM? ROFL STUPID CCP NERF EVERYTHING. ROFLROLFORLFORLFORLF. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
CrazzlY	Posted - 2003.09.08 10:41:00 - [6] Quote: ROFL OMFG NOOB LOOK TACHYON IS SUPPOZED 2 HAVE BEST RANGE, DAMAGE, TRACKING, AND ROF OF ALL TEH WEAPONS, LOSAR. WHY CANT I EQUIP 8 OF THEM? ROFL STUPID CCP NERF EVERYTHING. ROFLROLFORLFORLFORLF. Too much coffe, eh?
Meau	Posted - 2003.09.08 11:09:00 - [7] Edited by: Meau on 08/09/2003 11:09:45 What jash said. Ends, you are just spoilt by the old tachyons, get over it.
Dan Forever	Posted - 2003.09.08 11:23:00 - [8] Ends, look up the word Balance. Thats what CCP are trying to do with their game, and however much you complain, they will not overpower one ship for the sake of someone whos used to having everything in their ship at once.
Nelia Hawk	Posted - 2003.09.08 11:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Nelia Hawk on 08/09/2003 11:28:48 lol all ya whiners ohhhhhhh poor amarrs ohhhhhhh hey dont whine when they change things they balance it that EVERYTHING in the game is balanced to eachother. dont see balancing in the way how good/bad its FOR YOU when they change items YOU USE! you have to see it all together. i.e. these psyblabla cpus had 27% modifyer, all other modules have just 5-7% (dammage/range/etc -modifyer) so they balanced the cpu mody to the other modules. and ships should not use just the "best/biggest" ****ty guns to anhilate everything that moves by. better try to get a good setup for your ship and playstyle with the items that are in the game (even when you DONT use just the "BEST blabla" weapons) then whining about every balancing they do! btw you cant have a super ship that can fit EVERYTHING YOU WANT (perhaps you should ask the jovians nicely...) ever heared something of teamwork???? where one ship uses guns and the other supports it with shieldtransporter or tracking links or all these other nice modules. ccp continue to balance the game like you do it atm edit: perhaps the THORAX should have 1 or 2 less turrets (more drone bay at the cost of some turrets) just looks like 5 turrets and 10 drones could be too much? atleast its supposed to be a dronecarryer, i think about making it a bit like the amarr dronecarryer (it has big dronebay and less turrets too) ---------------------------------- some of my ideas: Very Long Balancing Suggestion !!! and My Ideas for EVE
Saladin	Posted - 2003.09.08 11:24:00 - [10] too many nerf's for amarr ships? Now you know what it feels like to fly minmatar --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003.
Ends	Posted - 2003.09.08 11:51:00 - [11] These changes won't be balanced over-all. Amarr ships are going to be gimped until the devs realize it and improve them. It's going to be a rough few months for people that fly them. Making a major battleship only able to fit 3 thacyons that do 200 damage while it only has 400 cpu but uses over 800 regularly with just mining equipment IS a problem. These changes are going to balance high mid slot ships and uniquely hit Armas and Apocs, due to the fact that they now have two major choke points to consume low slots. CPU and powergrid. Tightening the noose on both at once is too much.
Nelia Hawk	Posted - 2003.09.08 12:18:00 - [12] Quote: Making a major battleship only able to fit 3 thacyons that do 200 damage while it only has 400 cpu but uses over 800 regularly with just mining equipment IS a problem. then that ship is not supposed as a mining ship! btw i would like to see more specialised ships and advantages for that like the BURST (+5% to mining yield) (the BANTAM could have something similar) atm (nearly) all caldaris have +5% to weapon range per lvl raven has a +X% to missiles (caracal & krestel or that minmatat missleboat SLASHER i think, should have something similar) what when HERON or GRIFFIN (hope that are the correct ships, there are some for support/EW/etc using) get a +X% to ECM range or so. so every ship is specialised for some actions more then others ---------------------------------- some of my ideas: Very Long Balancing Suggestion !!! and My Ideas for EVE
Luc Boye	Posted - 2003.09.08 12:58:00 - [13] Amarr gets nerfed down. Missiles get boost. Read: prelude to Minmatar Revolution -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Abn Matar	Posted - 2003.09.08 13:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Abn Matar on 08/09/2003 13:11:19 Quote: Quote: 2. Thacyon nerf, My Apocs can now mount 3 Thacyons with stock powergrid due to the 1000 powergrid nerf on Chaos (4750). Thats not a fighting ship. I have to use how many low slots to get enough powergrid to make my apoc fit enough Thacyons to fight well? Not to mention the falloff nerf and activation cost increase. And my power is going to be gone in moments. I hate all the attention the Tachyon lasers are getting. They are extremely high damage, long range weapons. Very much akin to the Howitzer class projectile weapons. Did you ever stop to consider that maybe you were never meant to equip a large number of them? Just like the Howitzer class projectile weapons? Yes jash. I cant put more than 4 1400mm on my tempest, but that weapon cant even get near in the dmg/rof/range/tracking=result the tachyon have, the 1400mm i a looooong range weapon, it deals much damage but only on long range, you can get within 25km with a tachyon and still get absolutley terific hits...
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.08 13:39:00 - [15] Tried changing ammo? Btw, im not worried about apoc, it has a good overall value.. But what about the damage dealing Arma atm? All low slots are basicly used for heatsinks, after comming patch.. They are nerfed so bad that the formarly known : weak defence against ecm but great firepower, is going to die out imho. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Nexos II	Posted - 2003.09.08 14:38:00 - [16] It is just a question of rebalancing the game right now which can in some cases seem strange but i belive they have some kind of general idea how it should look, and where did you read that the apoc was supposed to be able to use 8 minerII's? --- Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guristas Conquistador, wrecking for 969.6 damage.
Blinder	Posted - 2003.09.08 14:51:00 - [17] Try adding some RCU's or cap fluxes to your low slots so you can actually fire your lasers then? Sure, it sucks for Amarr ships their huge lowslots can't be used to stack damage mods as well as they used to. It sucks for Caldari ships we can't stack hardeners and dampeners and such anymore. But, ya know what? There is life after heatsinks, you just have to stop following the rest of the sheep. Try slapping on some armor plating. You are supposed to have heavily armored ships, after all, and that extra HP might help you last the extra time it takes you to kill the other guy now. Or some energized armor so you take less damage, or cap rechargers like I said so you can take more shots. And stop acting like Amarr are the only race getting hurt by this... everyone is affected and pretty much evenly, once you stop to think about it. Hell, Amarr will probably coming out better than most... minmatar probably the best simply because they have the least to lose.
Runefinger	Posted - 2003.09.08 15:54:00 - [18] erm tachyons have been boosted to high dmg there not suppose to be the same weapons as they are now on TQ, if you then look at the next in row (i think it was the megabeam laser) you will notice it takes LESS powergrid and does MORE dmg then either the 1400mm or the 425mm (or the current tachyon on TQ)and still has a killing optimal range and way better tracking.... this means the amarr ships will be able to fit more off these guns and deal even more out then before the patch.... so PLZ stop talking rubish about amarr getting the nerf stick only real problem will be the photonic not giving 27% anymore but all ships will have problems with that same goes for the hardeners
Ends	Posted - 2003.09.08 16:03:00 - [19] One of my main points is this. Right now my Apocs with 6 miner II's 2 heavy mod beams, 2 small armour repairers, 1 large CL-5, and one scanner (survey or cargo) needs two photonics at 27.5ish% boost to cpu each in low slots to equip these things. These two Photonics get a total mod of 1.62 to CPU when multiplied together (1.275x1.275=1.62). In order to equip this very meager set up (no large lazers, frigate armour repairers) I would need SIX low slot photonics at 9ish% would get me a mod of 1.67. Even with the Apoc getting 50 more CPU anyone that wants to have anything like a reasonable set up is going to need FAR too many low slots gobbled up for CPU. Its not a good change.
Silver Striker	Posted - 2003.09.08 17:52:00 - [20] Battleships aren't designed to be miners. Quite complaining that you can't put 8 miner's on it. Jeez *That's fantastic, really, but we need more COW BELL!!!!*
Ends	Posted - 2003.09.08 18:15:00 - [21] Read. Its 6 Miner II's. Any ship is able to be a miner. I sincerely doubt the devs intend for battlships to not be mining ships.
Ulstan	Posted - 2003.09.08 21:25:00 - [22] I wouldn't be surprised at all if the devs intended for battleships not to be mining ships. "Thats not a fighting ship. I have to use how many low slots to get enough powergrid " Welcome to every caldari ship captains problems. You're not supposed to be able to mount up the maximum number of the biggest guns without trouble. That's why the cpu/rcu modules are THERE. You'll have to settle for either stuffing your low slots with cpu/rcu in order to mount all those huge weapons, or mount as many big weapons as you can comfortably, and fill the rest of your slots in with the 2nd tier weapons. It should be painful to mount a full rack of the biggest guns. Caldari ships can't run around with 4 425mm guns either, so I don't see what your problem is.
Agent Shield	Posted - 2003.09.08 23:26:00 - [23] Abn, what do you consider "absolutely terrific hits"? I ask so that I can determine where I fit in this picture. I currently hit with about 165 being the normal hit I do against a pirate. I have no weight to put it against to tell if it is high or low. So that is why I ask. I have no idea if 50 is a low hit, 165 is a medium hit, and 400 is a absolutely terrific hit. Agent Shield
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.09.08 23:45:00 - [24] Quote: I wouldn't be surprised at all if the devs intended for battleships not to be mining ships. "Thats not a fighting ship. I have to use how many low slots to get enough powergrid " Welcome to every caldari ship captains problems. You're not supposed to be able to mount up the maximum number of the biggest guns without trouble. That's why the cpu/rcu modules are THERE. You'll have to settle for either stuffing your low slots with cpu/rcu in order to mount all those huge weapons, or mount as many big weapons as you can comfortably, and fill the rest of your slots in with the 2nd tier weapons. It should be painful to mount a full rack of the biggest guns. Caldari ships can't run around with 4 425mm guns either, so I don't see what your problem is. caldari? you talk about caldari bs? lol, if you agree give apoc 6 med, arma 8 med, then we can discuss amarr ship should mount 4 tachyon or not. nobody with mind will compare any other race ships to caldari ships. we are discussing balance, not how to make a overpowered ship.
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.09.09 05:59:00 - [25] Well, they designed all ships to be generic and easily modded with the whole "slots" idea. So I guess all ships can be whatever you can make em.
alphacheezeman	Posted - 2003.09.09 18:32:00 - [26] you people think tachyons nerfed ?? if you all did your homework better like the 1337 haxors u all are you would notice the overall damage mod has gone up to 4.5....er that be 6.34 something even with my paltry skills right now.... so what if i can only mount 2 now (i can mount 5 right now with a heavy launcher and no cpu booster ) i can use the beefed megabeams that now have strengh of the old tachs or even the megapulse...if you look close all de weapons are uber now....way way powerfull in other words all ur battleships might last even less in battle cuzz i a single gun can do 500 dmg a shot ....yarr @!@@
OVERCOPES 1	Posted - 2003.09.11 18:40:00 - [27] cruisers and frigates are then are they silver. belt up.

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