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Drones - overpowered or what am I missing?

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Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:24:00 - [31] If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB... OMG our war have been hijack -eris What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
Mordocik	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:26:00 - [32] how do you propose fitting a large SB on a cruiser / frigate?
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:28:00 - [33] Edited by: j0sephine on 10/03/2006 16:29:05 "If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB..." This was reasonable before drones were reworked and given the hitpoint boost. Nowadays you're quite likely to be long dead or with your cap gone before you even make a dent in drones... (presuming heavy drones vs large bomb, medium drones vs medium etc)
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Nadec Ascand If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB... he will laugh, cause you need 15 cycles to kill his drones?
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:32:00 - [35] Also to the people posting 60 line blocks of text with no spaces, paragraphs plz. callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back
Felxia	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:33:00 - [36] interceptors are overpowered
Felxia	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Nadec Ascand If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB... he will laugh, cause you need 15 cycles to kill his drones? but u still CAN kill them?...
errorist	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Nadec Ascand If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB... ehm a dominix heavy drone can survive a lot... u need 6-7 runs with the large SB to kill 1 drone and then it can launch 5 new If something is hard going, its not worth doing
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Felxia Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Nadec Ascand If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB... he will laugh, cause you need 15 cycles to kill his drones? but u still CAN kill them?... yeah, only needs about 120 seconds that multiplated with 3
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.03.10 16:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Felxia Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Nadec Ascand If u know u gonna fight a drone ship 1 large SB... he will laugh, cause you need 15 cycles to kill his drones? but u still CAN kill them?... Well yeah, but you'll need short range guns. In fact, with medium blasters and webs taking out heavy drones feels like popping head crabs in HL2. ...or maybe thats just because I've been flying around in Astartes, Deimoses and Brutices too much --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:03:00 - [41] Ok, my 2 cents: Drones aren't the problem. Its Nosferatu. I'd like to see Nosferatu nerfed to the point where it makes less sense to use them on non-EW specialized ships, just like it makes more sense to fit ECM modules on a Scorpion or Rook than anything else. Seeing as Nosferatu is now the Amarrian racial EW, I think they are the only race who should be allowed to use them at full strenght. So to recap - Nerf the base drain values of Nosferatu by 60% - Give ships with a tracking disruptor bonus a bonus to Nosferatu aswell - Increase the bonus of the Curse and Pilgrim to keep their ability level with what it is today - Introduce some more Nos-specialized EW ships to the Amarr race (Possible second tier BC or third tier Battleship idea?) Cue flames from Dominix pilots everywhere.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild Ok, my 2 cents: Drones aren't the problem. Its Nosferatu. I'd like to see Nosferatu nerfed to the point where it makes less sense to use them on non-EW specialized ships, just like it makes more sense to fit ECM modules on a Scorpion or Rook than anything else. Seeing as Nosferatu is now the Amarrian racial EW, I think they are the only race who should be allowed to use them at full strenght. So to recap - Nerf the base drain values of Nosferatu by 60% - Give ships with a tracking disruptor bonus a bonus to Nosferatu aswell - Increase the bonus of the Curse and Pilgrim to keep their ability level with what it is today - Introduce some more Nos-specialized EW ships to the Amarr race (Possible second tier BC or third tier Battleship idea?) Cue flames from Dominix pilots everywhere. amarr ships with nos boni are overpowered
Karl Mattar	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:10:00 - [43] Edited by: Karl Mattar on 10/03/2006 17:10:09 You are all being silly about this. If you don't like getting smacked around by drones, pack a smartbomb. Usually by the time the other guy figures it out, the drones are nearly or already blown away. If he figures it out in time to save them, he certainly won't send them back your way. Esp if they are using expensive T2 drones. :) Smartbombs > drones. If you can't be bothered to fit to beat them, you deserve to get smacked around by them. Drones are fine. --- Karl Mattar LT-CMDR, CAIN
Cpt Placeholder	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:12:00 - [44] i may be a newbie but i recognize an overpowered mechanism when i see one :P imo nosferatus shouldn't exist at all
Mordocik	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Karl Mattar Edited by: Karl Mattar on 10/03/2006 17:10:09 You are all being silly about this. If you don't like getting smacked around by drones, pack a smartbomb. Usually by the time the other guy figures it out, the drones are nearly or already blown away. If he figures it out in time to save them, he certainly won't send them back your way. Esp if they are using expensive T2 drones. :) Smartbombs > drones. If you can't be bothered to fit to beat them, you deserve to get smacked around by them. Drones are fine. I can only echo the thoughts of others in this thread, if you think smartbombs are the answer to drones then you havn't used them in RMR.
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:44:00 - [46] Drones are SLOW - outrunning the heavy ones is a joke, any ceptor can outrun the medium ones and if you drop the plate you will outrun the small ones aswell. Just mwd orbit and pop the drones meanwhile, the small and med ones really go down fast. The heavy ones wont catch up ever/wont hit. OFC you cannot do this if you are being NOSsed but as someone pointed out earlier, the huge problem here is heavy nos, not drones... a geddon with small guns and 2 heavy neuts will annhilate frigs as much as a dominix... (imho L nos range shud be reduced to 15km or they shud introduce some kind of nos tanking module) - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)
Glarion Garnier	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:46:00 - [47] There is solution to your problem. Use T2 Smart bomb. micros for frigs etc.. mediums for cruisers... Simply fantastic. ooh no more drones.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.10 17:51:00 - [48] It would be awesome if people suggesting to use smartbombs could do the math to back up their theory. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Aakron	Posted - 2006.03.10 18:59:00 - [49] I really do hate nerf threads, I am a primary drone user, when everyone else trained up missiles and gunnery I stayed and focussed on the little critters putting skillpoints after skillpoints into making them good. In my opinion it is the combination of Drone boats with EW and Nos that cause the cry for nerf, simply put because they are a counter to the setups often found on these forums which are cap heavy and heavily gun orientated. The cry that damage and tank is unfair is simple ignorance. Look at the Raven, full tank and damage with its low slots free for damage mods and PDUs or a full EW setup and an armor tank, similarly with the use of a cap booster many ships can be fitted out for gank and dual rep /large booster style tanking. In my opinion there are now far too few people developing their own setups, many people seem to just follow the ship fitting stickys. To counter EW there are new changes being made, I would be happy to see a reduction in jamming strength across the board for all jammers and relevant boosts given to the caldari EW ships to compensate for this. There are many methods to counter drones in combat, simply setting your own drones on theirs will either weaken their offence or force them to start micromanaging their units and to deploy more or to decide to fight against your drones, this causes your opponent to make decisions and can turn the fight in your favour. Drones can be shot, webbed, target painted or smartbombed, that doesnt happen to your missile launchers or to your turrets. I would be happy to see the provision of more counters to drone ships than reducing the effectiveness of drones. I agree that an ECM burst should become an effective module at disabling drones. An ECM burst would break lock and the drone pilot would have to notice and issue his drones with an attack order, perhaps a delay of a few seconds before the drones could aquire lock would be needed (ie new state for drones: Disabled). Secondly I see no problem with a boost for smartbombs, they should become an effective counter to drones in the form of an increased damage output in order to make up for the new durability changes. Therefore as a drone user I am posting that there is an underprovision of modules to counter drones, but that I do not feel any drone nerf is necessary. Simply put I feel that if you outfit your ship to counter a drone ship you should be more effective in combat than you can currently be.
Iagen	Posted - 2006.03.10 19:14:00 - [50] For a short thread hijak, since a lot of drone-savy folks are talking, I'm curious if anyone knows if Drone Sharpshooting skill lends much advantage to small/medium drones or if it's primarily geared toward Sentries, I know early on the skill caused wider/faster orbits which screwed up drone tracking, I'm curious if that is fixed.
Negative Nancy	Posted - 2006.03.10 19:36:00 - [51] Nosferatus are fine. If you dont like getting NOSsed, fit one yourself to counter it. If you can't fit one big enough to counter it, get a bigger ship or get in a gang.
Mordocik	Posted - 2006.03.10 19:44:00 - [52] Originally by: Aakron I really do hate nerf threads, I am a primary drone user, when everyone else trained up missiles and gunnery I stayed and focussed on the little critters putting skillpoints after skillpoints into making them good. In my opinion it is the combination of Drone boats with EW and Nos that cause the cry for nerf, simply put because they are a counter to the setups often found on these forums which are cap heavy and heavily gun orientated. Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking for a nerf necessarily, I'm trying to understand HOW to counter them. Originally by: Aakron The cry that damage and tank is unfair is simple ignorance. Look at the Raven, full tank and damage with its low slots free for damage mods and PDUs or a full EW setup and an armor tank, similarly with the use of a cap booster many ships can be fitted out for gank and dual rep /large booster style tanking. In my opinion there are now far too few people developing their own setups, many people seem to just follow the ship fitting stickys. What is it with all the pro drone users and their inability to get over BS comparissons? Fair enough I didn't make it ABUNDANTLY clear in my initial post I was mainly interested in cruiser and frigs, but I thought I've stated it a few times since then clearly enough. You do raise an interesting point about the cap boosters though, the problem being of course large requirements of cargo space which for smaller ships is a big problem, that said I'll have a look into them. Originally by: Aakron To counter EW there are new changes being made, I would be happy to see a reduction in jamming strength across the board for all jammers and relevant boosts given to the caldari EW ships to compensate for this. There are many methods to counter drones in combat, simply setting your own drones on theirs will either weaken their offence or force them to start micromanaging their units and to deploy more or to decide to fight against your drones, this causes your opponent to make decisions and can turn the fight in your favour. Drones can be shot, webbed, target painted or smartbombed, that doesnt happen to your missile launchers or to your turrets. Again its interesting that after so many drone people have gone to great lengths to emphasize the alledged massive skill requirements of drones why you think its fair that I should have to train drones in addition to my normal turrets / missiles in order to mitigate the drone ships advantage. Even putting that aside not all cruisers and precious few frigates even have that option. Originally by: Aakron I would be happy to see the provision of more counters to drone ships than reducing the effectiveness of drones. I agree that an ECM burst should become an effective module at disabling drones. An ECM burst would break lock and the drone pilot would have to notice and issue his drones with an attack order, perhaps a delay of a few seconds before the drones could aquire lock would be needed (ie new state for drones: Disabled). Secondly I see no problem with a boost for smartbombs, they should become an effective counter to drones in the form of an increased damage output in order to make up for the new durability changes. Therefore as a drone user I am posting that there is an underprovision of modules to counter drones, but that I do not feel any drone nerf is necessary. Simply put I feel that if you outfit your ship to counter a drone ship you should be more effective in combat than you can currently be. I'll pay that I could try a few more things out in my ship fittings, cap booster is one of those things that I havn't looked at in a lot of detail so I'll go and do that soon. Still let me now ask a very specific question, how can you effectively tackle a drone cruiser? I've tried in everything from inty's to af's and even short range dmg cruisers (ie AC rupture setups), nothing lasts long enough in close range with the drone ships to effectively tackle in my experience.
Karl Mattar	Posted - 2006.03.10 20:00:00 - [53] I fly a Ferox. Not exactly a big drone ship. I put a smartbomb or two on board, regularly. Yes, there are hazards. However, they do just fine killing drones. Sorry if you don't like that answer, but it works for me. There are risks and rewards to everything in this game. And drone users have to train just as many guns/missile skills as non-drone users do. The argument that they don't doesn't work for me. --- Karl Mattar LT-CMDR, CAIN
Jennifae	Posted - 2006.03.10 20:04:00 - [54] PEOPLE BEING SMART IS OVERPOWERED!!!! h4xxXXor! N?erf Teh PeOPle being smart!
Commander Nikolas	Posted - 2006.03.10 20:45:00 - [55] To the original poster: Counter #1: Torp Raven w/ECCM Counter #2: Scorp w/Sensor Booster It is pretty simple. A torp raven does so much damage that the Domi stands no chance of tanking it. The scorps counter should be ovbious. I agree that drones should have a locking time so that ECM bursts had more of a use. Drones are perfectly fine, it is ECM and NOS that are a problem. Personally I like the idea of having NOS based on signature radius. I don't know what the deal is with Ewar in RMR... they completly nerfed all the other races Ewar and boosted Caldari. Whatever though, Gallente bastardized it to create the perfect raven killer :) (NOS/Ewar Domi of course)
Mordocik	Posted - 2006.03.10 22:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Commander Nikolas To the original poster: Counter #1: Torp Raven w/ECCM Counter #2: Scorp w/Sensor Booster Once again I'll say i'm interested in frig / cruiser fights in particular. I'm also interested in the question of how to tackle frig / cruiser drone ships.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.10 22:36:00 - [57] If an Ishkur has the an appropriate damage type of drones, then any other Inty or AF is in trouble. But eh..in a small fight situation, they're NOT overpowered. The target might have trouble, but OTHER ships can splat the drones on him. Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
Semkhet	Posted - 2006.03.10 22:37:00 - [58] Originally by: Mordocik Originally by: Commander Nikolas To the original poster: Counter #1: Torp Raven w/ECCM Counter #2: Scorp w/Sensor Booster Once again I'll say i'm interested in frig / cruiser fights in particular. I'm also interested in the question of how to tackle frig / cruiser drone ships. I dont really undestand your problem. You want to use a ceptor to handle almost any type of tactical challenge, yet you don't seem to be ready to make the related investment. Get a Gistii-A MWD along with a dread guristas disruptor, and if you have good skills: problem solved. I orbit at 4700 m/sec, top speed at almost 6 Km/sec, and can orbit Domi's at 22 Km range if I wish and still scramble them. Never had any drone turning into a threat either, since I outrun them. Even if the Domi fits named NOS/NEUT with extended range, since I am anyhow orbiting near their limit, my cap may die and I may have to rely on my normal speed, but I still get out of NOS/NEUT range in a few seconds. Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.10 22:47:00 - [59] And you'll still probably die before you can warp to a prescision cruise Raven. And? Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
Yossar	Posted - 2006.03.10 22:57:00 - [60] Originally by: Negative Nancy Nosferatus are fine. If you dont like getting NOSsed, fit one yourself to counter it. If you can't fit one big enough to counter it, get a bigger ship or get in a gang. Haha, that sounds like the very definition of something that isn't fine.

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