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CivrGrrl19
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Posted - 2006.03.11 06:59:00 -
[1]
Heya all,
I was studying the stat sheets for various weapons while mining and generally being bored.  Well, I've seen people say on these forums that large blasters take too much powergrid, leaving no powergrid for a decent tank. I was initially confused because I saw Megathron builds (high skill maybe?) with decent tanks, because the blasters don't really need damage mods or tracking aids.
Then I started comparing the Megathron builds to Armageddon builds that use pulse lasers and a tanks. I must say I'm perplexed. Large pulse lasers seem to use just as much powergrid.
So how are large blasters gimped, but large pulse lasers are not?
Is it because of the better range on large pulse lasers?
Or what? 
Thanks!
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Seto Mazzarotto
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Posted - 2006.03.11 07:19:00 -
[2]
That's exactly it. They've got an optimal range that doesn't require one warping in right on top of his target or use of an MWD (which results in being molested by many eager torpedoes) to be effective.
That plus crystals are easy to swap and have a significant impact on range, unlike ammo on both counts.
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Espen
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Posted - 2006.03.11 07:29:00 -
[3]
Powergird usually isn't the problem with the mega, its more the CPU, and the high cap usage on hybrid.
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CivrGrrl19
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Posted - 2006.03.11 07:33:00 -
[4]
Makes sense, then. Basically the Blasterthron would NEED a better tank than an Armageddon (using pulses) because it takes longer to maneuver into position.
...wheras the Armageddon can warp in, get to range without much difficulty, so that its tank has no trouble keeping up - it doesn't need to last as long while the ship maneuvers into position.
It would appear that they tried to balance the supreme damage of blasters with short range, but the lack of practicality really ruins the effectiveness of the weapon.
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Seto Mazzarotto
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Posted - 2006.03.11 07:59:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Espen
Powergird usually isn't the problem with the mega, its more the CPU, and the high cap usage on hybrid.
That too. The CPU and especially the cap issues are compounded when using the ancient MWD setup.
They really screwed the Blasterthron's ability to close on targets effectively when they made speed modules add mass to a ship. You just can't accelerate fast enough to close effectively anymore. You need a tackler acting as a warp-in point, and even then the mass increase issue wastes precious seconds getting in range.
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Recluse XXX
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Posted - 2006.03.11 09:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CivrGrrl19
because the blasters don't really need damage mods or tracking aids.
The tracking of large blasters kinda suck and beacuse of that they dont do enouge damage.
Speaking of this, have they begun the testings on SiSi yet, anyone know??
//Rec
-------------
Edited by: sausage jockey on 01/02/2006 22:02:39
We will not give up until we have penetrated the rear entrance to Stain, we hope this will hurt SA to the point they start to cry.
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2006.03.11 09:57:00 -
[7]
Blasters have higher tracking on paper, but the closer te target ship the better your tracking needs to be. So when you get into blaster range it kinda gimps the blasters tracking.
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2006.03.11 10:11:00 -
[8]
actually, Amarr use Medium Guns on Battleships in order to tank more.
Its the truth.
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Kaleeb
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Posted - 2006.03.11 10:13:00 -
[9]
Nothing on sisi yet 
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Dreez
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Posted - 2006.03.11 10:16:00 -
[10]
Im sorry, but post with your main or atleast wait untill your
alt is old enough to have his avatar registred on the forums.
People afraid of showing their true faces when "complaining"
about a over 2year old problem need not to bother.
Next time, get dry behind the ears first before posting kthxbye  .
Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years,
at the pub, getting a cold beer.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.03.11 10:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Espen
Powergird usually isn't the problem with the mega, its more the CPU, and the high cap usage on hybrid.
Indeed
ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=259621 |
Baun
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Posted - 2006.03.11 10:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Espen
Powergird usually isn't the problem with the mega, its more the CPU, and the high cap usage on hybrid.
And tracking vs range
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.03.11 11:08:00 -
[13]
also, a mega has an extra lowslot in case of powergrid problems, and doesn't need to fit an mwd which takes up good power too, the guns get a 50% decrease in cap use, amarr ships usually have higher base powergrid, stuff like that ;)
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Drilla Killa
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Posted - 2006.03.11 11:32:00 -
[14]
but....
Nobody can deny that mega is FUN !!
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Zolofine
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Posted - 2006.03.11 11:36:00 -
[15]
I think the biggest problem in fixing blasters is how to make them unique yet balanced.
Right now they are unique because of their range, but they suck. They are rumored the highest damage weapon, but this is not so in practice since an armageddon with megapulses does about the same damage and this is when using Neutron blasters which just cannot be used on an effective setup because of various issues including powergrid, cap use, cpu and tracking vs range.
If said neutron blasters did enough damage to dedicate a whole ships setup to them then they would be usefull, but they don't do enough damage, they only do asmuch damage as another ship that doesn't need it's whole set-up dedicated to weaponry.
Because of this, everyone reverts to ions or even electrons. But here we are looking at lower damage still, so it needs damage mods, but it also need fitting mods (cpu). Once all this is fitted you notice that you cannot tank (cap problems), since oponents CAN tank and you cannot deliver enough damage fast enough to kill them before you die... You must also tank. Hence the problem.
As a last ditch attempt you can revert to electron blasters. Low cap use, good tracking, low fitting req. BUT they do crap all damage, so you need a very solid tank to eve survive. Now you basically have an apoc that does crap all damage, and needs to be within 5km to do any damage at all. The only other possibility is using other means to break a tank... NOS!
At the end of the day you end up with a set-up anywhere between 6 electrons and 2 and 6 nos and 2 electrons...
Conclusion, blasters do not work... |
Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.03.11 11:45:00 -
[16]
As far as I can see, the geddon suffers from lack of cpu as well if you want a decent tank (= dual rep + cap booster).
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Zolofine
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Posted - 2006.03.11 12:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
As far as I can see, the geddon suffers from lack of cpu as well if you want a decent tank (= dual rep + cap booster).
All ships do ;-)
Tech 2 guns = co-proc pretty much, with a few exceptions... |
Caldorous
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Posted - 2006.03.11 13:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CivrGrrl19
Then I started comparing the Megathron builds to Armageddon builds that use pulse lasers and a tanks. I must say I'm perplexed. Large pulse lasers seem to use just as much powergrid.
Compare tier2 ships with tier2 ships, and you will see how much more pg have the apocalyspe compared to the megathron (and even more capacitor to tank).
I now that the pulses take more pg than the blasters, but the ships to use them, have more pg too.
The pulses recieved a overhaul recently so their status is ok, it is know the blasters that should recieve a look.
-----------------------------
I know where is the ISD naughty secret 
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.03.11 13:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Espen
Powergird usually isn't the problem with the mega, its more the CPU, and the high cap usage on hybrid.
Since amarrian ships have more capacitor size and bonus to laser capacitor usage, they are not really effected by the "high" capacitor usage of lasers compared to the capacitor usage on gallente ships.
Now I think that either lasers capacitor usage should be raised so they at least get affected at the same level as hybrids on gallente ships (would be totally devastating for ships without the bonus laser bonus) or reduce the capacitor usage of hybrid weapons.
"We brake for nobody"
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weedmasta
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Posted - 2006.03.11 14:02:00 -
[20]
Amarr use mediums because they dont have the skills for large turrets yet and that doesn't apply to Amarr only, all noob BS pilots do that. Besides that blasters do more DPS than pulses. They are not gimped, just balanced. Each race you have to sacrifice something for something else it's that simple.
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.03.11 15:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Since amarrian ships have more capacitor size and bonus to laser capacitor usage, they are not really effected by the "high" capacitor usage of lasers compared to the capacitor usage on gallente ships.
That 'advantage' is earned by using one ship bonus on this on almost every Amarrian ship. Not sure you would really want that for Gallente, would you?
________________________________________________________________
- Forsch
Defender of the empire
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.11 15:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: weedmasta
Amarr use mediums because they dont have the skills for large turrets yet and that doesn't apply to Amarr only, all noob BS pilots do that. Besides that blasters do more DPS than pulses. They are not gimped, just balanced. Each race you have to sacrifice something for something else it's that simple.
Yeah... blasters use more cap than lasers... blasters do 30dps more on thron than mp on geddon. Blasters need mwd = gimped cap...
Oh and about range... mp II + scorch = 45km optimal.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
CivrGrrl19
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:07:00 -
[23]
Edited by: CivrGrrl19 on 11/03/2006 18:08:23
Originally by: Dreez
Im sorry, but post with your main or atleast wait untill your
alt is old enough to have his avatar registred on the forums.
People afraid of showing their true faces when "complaining"
about a over 2year old problem need not to bother.
Next time, get dry behind the ears first before posting kthxbye .
I wasn't complaining. I was asking what the problem is (and if there even is a problem).
Next time, read the OP before posting. kthxbye
To the REST of you: thank you for your constructive replies. I think I have a better grasp of what is going on now. I'm still not sure I completely understand the debate though.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Since amarrian ships have more capacitor size and bonus to laser capacitor usage, they are not really effected by the "high" capacitor usage of lasers compared to the capacitor usage on gallente ships.
That 'advantage' is earned by using one ship bonus on this on almost every Amarrian ship. Not sure you would really want that for Gallente, would you?
Sure, if you boost blaster range to 40km, i'll gladly give up my tracking bonus on my mega.
callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:23:00 -
[25]
Well I can answer your points here, or at least I'll try to.
1: Large pulse lasers seem to use just as much powergrid.
Ahh true, but your also fitting them on ships that genrally have more grid to begin with. As well pulse's dont require a MWD to work, blasters do. And as such the fitting of a MWD reduces your availible grid by a fair bit.
2:blasters don't really need damage mods or tracking aids
Well tbh, everything needs damage mods. Its simply the way tanking works in the game, where even an extra 20% damage from a damage mod can mean that you kill your target twice as fast then you would other wise. Its hard to explain, but trust me.
As far as tracking is concerened. Look at the optimal ranges of the guns in question. Pulses do have a worse tracking stat, but at the same time have a greater optimal range. Meaning that at the ranges each gun is most effective, pulses have greater relitive tracking then blasters do.
3: I was initially confused because I saw Megathron builds (high skill maybe?) with decent tanks
Well yes, builds with decent tanks on blasterthrons do require high skills. As well as named gear in nearly every slot, and most often a cpu implant. Not to mention that is almost impossible to fit tech 2 blasters and a decent tank with out sending a fortune, and having very high skills.
The same can not be said generaly for amar ships. As well, a blasterthron needs to tank, while a pulse ship doesn't as much. This is do to the nature of how the combat takes place, namely the MWD into to target required in a mega, and the entire time you'll be lit up like a xmas tree, and everything will hit you for full damage while you do none your self.
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Caldorous
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Posted - 2006.03.11 20:31:00 -
[26]
^^ the best post so far
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I know where is the ISD naughty secret
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