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Lilith Kara
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Posted - 2006.03.11 17:39:00 -
[1]
Recently I've seen a few posts complaining about the lack of chivalry in the game. Personally, I reckon that's a feature, not a flaw. The Eve universe is (and should be) a dangerous place, and those who seriously think that it's a place where chivalry holds sway deserve everything they get.
Challenging folks to duels for kicks is eventually bound to get a player killed by someone who doesn't play by the chivalric code. This is not an Arthurian romance, and the Black Knight is not going to play by your rules of fairness.
Jumping on some poor unsuspecting sap who's challenged someone to a duel is just good business. In this game you take advantage when you can. I think setting up naive and outdated 'rules of engagement' is silly. Such rules can't be enforced anyway, and in my view those who cling to them are asking to be blown away.
What do others think?
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Laocoon
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Posted - 2006.03.11 17:42:00 -
[2]
I think people should stick to duels and ransoms and stuff. If not then imho it makes then seem like a bit of an *******.
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Channels 'Bar Veto' (IC) & Public Channel 'Veto' for info.  |
Coconut Joe
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Posted - 2006.03.11 17:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Coconut Joe on 11/03/2006 17:45:47
 Originally by: Lilith Kara
Recently I've seen a few posts complaining about the lack of chivalry in the game. Personally, I reckon that's a feature, not a flaw. The Eve universe is (and should be) a dangerous place, and those who seriously think that it's a place where chivalry holds sway deserve everything they get.
Challenging folks to duels for kicks is eventually bound to get a player killed by someone who doesn't play by the chivalric code. This is not an Arthurian romance, and the Black Knight is not going to play by your rules of fairness.
Jumping on some poor unsuspecting sap who's challenged someone to a duel is just good business. In this game you take advantage when you can. I think setting up naive and outdated 'rules of engagement' is silly. Such rules can't be enforced anyway, and in my view those who cling to them are asking to be blown away.
What do others think?
I was wondering that exact same thing when I was reading that thread where everyone missed the point.
Anyways, it'd be cool if there were 'unwritten rules' in this game, but there obviously isnt. It's like everyones in the mob: fierce loyalty to your corp and allience, screw everyone else. It's not a bad thing, it's just the way it is. There can never be any unwritten rules, because there's no economic incentive to do it.
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.11 17:52:00 -
[4]
There was no incentive in Mechwarrior 3 to fight with honor either, yet people still played games by honor rules (didn't include ganging up though, just legging, shooting while down, and other stuff). Made the games alot more fun and last longer since people wouldn't be taken down by cheap shots.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Slink Grinsdikild on 11/03/2006 18:00:53
My motto has always been; Play the game how you want, just don't expect me to adapt my playstyle because of yours.
And if you think EVE is bad go spend a month in DAoC, the game is stooped in little rules and regulations, more so than any game i've ever played. Enough to drive you crazy. 
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 11/03/2006 18:01:10
As with any value or moral, chivalry in Eve has only so much worth as the playerbase wants to put on it in term of ingame repercussion to those that break it's code.
In the case of duelling, that can be quite alot. People that are known to not honour 1v1's sometimes get excluded from membership by corporations that value the worth of one's word. It would suck if such a corp was the one you ahd your eye on when you cheated on that 1v1.
But, there's no black and white in Eve of course. If the target of the nefarious breakage of the chivalry code is even less liked, people might react quite differently 
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Consrul
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:08:00 -
[7]
Play to winz!!11 or play for the fun/rush.
Some people get off on winning at any means...zerging even. I think MMOs have shown us 1 thing if nothing else...most people play to win and not for the rush/fun of a fair fight.
So my bet would be the majority of players frown upon fair fights/honor..whatever you want to call it.
Whatever floats your boat I guess.
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Salyd Kanisu
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:11:00 -
[8]
Chivalry, honor and such are things you either respect or you don't. While most do not, and there's no viable way to make them, there are still those who do follow a code of conduct. It has nothing to do with morals or ethics in the way people would think, it's just a way to play the game so that you yourself set more challenges upon yourself.
With the risk of generalizing, I'd say the usual "wtfpwn" pvp-kids have no concept of chivalry, in-game or otherwise. Their way is the only way they accept, and although some of them use the "I play the game my way and you play it yours"-line, it rarely translates into them actually giving any consideration to the playstyle of others, and rather just ends up with "my way or no way". Having said that, there are of course enough people around to play with consideration to others to make the game enjoyable still.
It's not about whether or not you're chivalrous, it's how you go on about it. Mostly it turns out to be just someone forgetting to take their medication and devolve into a complete *******. Occasionally you can find someone who gives you space to play the game the way you want while doing their thing, and those are the cream of the crop. Everyone should remember that this is a game which we all play to have fun, and while the way people get that fun out of the game, it shouldn't be at the cost of the fun of others. (And no, that doesn't translate to "waa waa I want to stay in empire cuz I fear the baddies" in case you were wondering)
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Seto Mazzarotto
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Seto Mazzarotto on 11/03/2006 18:34:07
It all depends on how one wants to be treated. When an otherwise KOS target asks for free release in an obviously hopeless situation and the other party agrees and lets him go, that's honor and chivalry. As is honoring duels both parties agree to. Note the 'agree to' part, just because a pilot issues a challenge doesn't mean the challenged party is obligated to accept.
I've been called a coward for not engaging three battleships in a Brutix, and dishonorable for wolfpacking weak targets while pulling back in the face of a bad situation. So the parameters of honorable conduct have a pretty broad scope of interpretation.
I'm also not above giving bad intel if conversing with someone I know will kill me on local. "Yes I'm alone in this region" is a favorite.
In my opinion, the fact that this game allows you to be a complete bastard is a good thing. It also makes honorable conduct that much more commendable. There's a place for honor in EVE, yes.
However, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for being smart, opportunistic, and deceptive. 
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Nicholas Barker
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Posted - 2006.03.11 18:52:00 -
[10]
I try not to pod people, but if i dislike them enough i'll do it, or if they ask me to.
In AvP2 my clan had strict rules (based on predators from comics/films), i can't remember them since it's been a long time. But some for example were to uncloak and get out your wrist blade if you were fighting sombody with a crap weapon, don't use web launchers on marine players. Although the homing missiles were totally overpowered in that game, so any marine players using those had no rules set for them, they were free game.
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Where'd me pod go? |
Danno
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Coconut Joe
Edited by: Coconut Joe on 11/03/2006 17:45:47
I was wondering that exact same thing when I was reading that thread where everyone missed the point.
thank you sir
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Skaz
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:06:00 -
[12]
Isn't Chivalry really what your morals are? or your characters morals rather?
Personally I'm really torn on the issue of honor but I do have some morals as to wether I go ahead an pod someone or leave him floating. Depends on my mood and how the other side presents itself, if was a fair fight, fun and exciting.
Thiefs and such get no respect from me, vile scum...
But yet there is always that little admiration inside me when I get ransomed by a courteus pirate who actually lets me live and pass on after I pay him. 
I believe that those who play this game by any set of principles or self imposed rules, be it chivalry or being downright evil, realize that not everybody shares those principles and I admire them if they still continue playing in that style because that means that they aren't playing the game the easy way.
In my opinion Chivalry is a code of conduct that people choose for themselves, not imposed on them, so any lack of it really isn't controllable.
But those who play that way and continue, again, are admirable for denying themselves of a possible edge that they might have otherwise.
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PINK PINK PINK PINK |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:26:00 -
[13]
Chivalry is very important in EVE.
Not even pirates, generally, break their word on ransoms and duels. Those who do are known as scum.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Zafriel
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:37:00 -
[14]
it depends which way you look at it as someone else said people that break their word dont get into decent corperations, corps that keep their word usually get on better than those that wont.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 11/03/2006 19:47:52
Dunno about you but I always have knights in shinning armour when I yell for "Help, help, help!". I also usually reward them after they have helped me though.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 11/03/2006 19:47:52
Dunno about you but I always have knights in shinning armour when I yell for "Help, help, help!". I also usually reward them after they have helped me though.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
TheDeceit
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:51:00 -
[17]
I always let ladies go through jumpgates first.
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TheDeceit
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:51:00 -
[18]
I always let ladies go through jumpgates first.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TheDeceit
I always let ladies go through jumpgates first.
And let them get ganked by hostiles at the other side? 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
TheDeceit
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:56:00 -
[20]
I need somebody to scout, don't I?
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.11 19:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: TheDeceit
I need somebody to scout, don't I?
Pffft! Chivalry, my ... 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.03.11 20:28:00 -
[22]
Chivalry is very important in Eve.
Once you have a reputation for acting honourably, people are more likely to trust you.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Lilith Kara
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Posted - 2006.03.11 20:36:00 -
[23]
To me, there are two types of players, and it all comes down to that scene in Star Wars - there are those who like Han Solo to shoot first, and those who like Greedo to shoot first.
The thing is, when Han Solo shoots first, Star Wars is more real. I like MMORPGs to have that level of authenticity. Duels exist so that rich aristocrats and patsies can play at war, and chivalry is a pretence for those who are too pampered for their own good. The rest of us are just trying to stay alive.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.03.11 21:16:00 -
[24]
I really wouldn't want to share a corp with someone who dishonoured duels. And more than that sometimes the ability to make exceptions even on justifiable ROE killings separates the good guys from the bad guys. Case in point about a month ago I noticed this -10KOS Brutix mining in a belt. I checked our diplomacy logs and the guys alliance had aggressed us in Deklein previously. So I jumped into an Ishtar scrambled, webbed and killed the guy. Thing was it just didn't feel right.
Can't quite put my finger on it. Just felt wrong. He was completely oblivious to the reasons why we were shooting each other, completely unaware of the potential threat and absolutely zero match for me. So I invited him to come pick up his loot can and gave him a contribution for a new ship and advised him to get his CEO to seek diplomatic reconciliation with Jericho etc etc. I don't think it ever happened and perhaps the guy thought I was a soft touch but at the end of the day it made me feel better.
Perhaps this chivalry thing is about engaging worthy targets and fighting with decent conduct. I'd never show mercy to a fully-skilled war-target who actually had a chance of blowing up my ship but it seemed a bit pointless terminating some helpless novice just because his CEO is an diplomatic ass.
Anyway my 2 cents.
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Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2006.03.11 21:28:00 -
[25]
christ no...there is only one code i hold to..to keep my word..if i say something ill hold to it..apart from that anything goes.
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This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist |
GHarris
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Posted - 2006.03.11 21:33:00 -
[26]
Surely there can be no chivalry, bravery, etc. of any significance without the opportunity to betray, to be cowardly, etc? That's part of what makes Eve unique. In many games, you can't do anything other than be a hero. But that makes heroism meaningless.
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.03.11 21:59:00 -
[27]
Isk comes and goes, but my word is always my item of highest value. I will not cheapen it.
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One noob. One corp. One complete waste of 1.6 million isk. |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.11 23:05:00 -
[28]
its about respect for others.
and honesty, and decency.
being honorable and such does NOT mean fighting with one hand behind your back. it simply means having decency and respect in some situations.
like the example of finding a -10 person mining... they are no threat to you. theres no real point to going after them. (breaking up an at-war enemy's mining op is different)
when it comes down to it, it really is simple as having respect for others and behaving in a decent manner.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.11 23:07:00 -
[29]
its all about reputation. if you get a reputation as a man of your word, it becomes worth more. if you kill ppl who pay a ransom, or blob a 1v1, no-one will pay the ransom or go for a 1v1 again
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2006.03.12 00:28:00 -
[30]
As has been said earlier.
This is a one server game, everyone is in the same universe and your reputation does matter. I for one know in most cases who I can trust and who not to trust.
Of course ppl can use alts to do all the nasty stuff with but in time you develop the "spider sense".
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Rover Vitesse > Finix, i am not going to go all the way tonight |
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