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Chukk Solo
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Posted - 2006.03.12 06:49:00 -
[1]
What is going on? who has started the revolution on taking bookmarks away? Is it the lazy who can't make them? People who are unhappy they can't set up a gate camp? The main travel roots in EVE keep getting changed isn't that enough?
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Varis
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Posted - 2006.03.12 08:37:00 -
[2]
the devs did..
they dont like that instas give you much more safety than you can get by fitting, much more speed than by fitting, lag out the server, and have no drawbacks (except if you dont have them).
Bookmarks are a broken feature - not quite an exploit, but too close for comfort.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.12 12:00:00 -
[3]
surely it'd be easy to prevent anybody from warping to nearer than 10k to a gate?
jsut errect a massive interdiction bubble thing around the gates, and you'll more or less end instas.
no skills, just luck.
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Not Usul
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Posted - 2006.03.12 12:05:00 -
[4]
for the record, i also dislike instas.
Pretty much everybody i know gets a full set off their corp (we have some talented pro BM makers) and they've more or less become an essential part of the game.
the problem is; if you take them out, all of a sudden gatecamps get really, really effective.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.03.12 12:26:00 -
[5]
If you take them away, much of Empire will stagnate. Most people rely on instas to get around lowsec, let alone 0.0 due to gate campers. Taking them away almost totally prevents noobs from going into lowsec until they increase their skills by a considerable margin.
This would create havoc in Empire and totally stress out the servers due to the sheer numbers of people having more important things to skill up on before they dare to enter lowsec. What use is lowsec to anyone who can't even use a decent weapon?
Unless thy create an alternative to instas, it's not going to change and removing them without an alternative would cause more problems that it would solve with regards to lag.
--
My idea of an OS is one that Operates the System, not a complete package of every piece of software ever written.
Computers created "The Paperless Office". But some stupid fool invented a printer |
Jones Cirom
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Posted - 2006.03.12 16:27:00 -
[6]
There has been a powerfull petition against bookmarks and instas over the last couple of weeks. But it has only been a handfull of people initiating and responding against instas and bookmarks and their most powerful reasons seems to be:
-serverlagginess
-can't protect gates
And everytime someone protect the instas and bookmarks they're fend off with things as life is hard and noob.
My opinion is, keep'em, most people use them and it does grant more new players acces to low sec and thereby more ships for the pirates operating there, not near the gates though, but that's life. They can just go hunting in the belts or wait for someone without instas.
If they should anything it would be to reduce the number a person can posses. Thereby noone will have instas for everything and everyone has to be more carefull about their instas. This should also give pirates a few more ships and the servers a little less lagginess.
But removing them all-together to account for ship speed while going through the universe? That would be a bad idea.
rgds
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Prince Rum
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Posted - 2006.03.12 18:16:00 -
[7]
I don't approve of Instas either, but i do not agree with them being blamed for the lag in Eve. Instas are used in every system, in every part of the eve universe, but the lag is not that wide spread. I have noticed that there is only lag in some systems and most of these systems i noticed that do have lag also have secure containers in them being used for advertising, etc. If the sec. cans that were not being used for there intended purpose were cleaned out of the systems, i think a fair amount of the lag would also disappear.
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Plekto
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Posted - 2006.03.12 19:44:00 -
[8]
And what about creating an insta back to your can or favorite mining place or safe-spot?
The only rational solution would be a "bubble" at all gates - so instas don't work very well. That I could see - but removing them entiorely just borks the rest of the game.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.12 20:05:00 -
[9]
There are some very hardcore and very vocal PvPers who remember the "good times" when Eve had 1/3 of the subs and no instas who want to go back to that blessed state.
However, Eve has changed dramatically since then, and removal of instas would be,...not good..without a functioning replacement.
The devs don't LIKE instas, but neither do they have a good idea for replacement, because it is an extremely complex and tricky subject.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Zeinin
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Posted - 2006.03.13 01:30:00 -
[10]
How about taking the exit point of your warp and randomizing it over a 50-5km diameter sphere depending on some warp drive accuracy skill or something? This way, you could skill up you instas: people whith high warp drive accuracy could near instadock, while newbs would warp in randomly around the station/gate?
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Sanaen Eydanwadh
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Posted - 2006.03.13 11:56:00 -
[11]
newbies would be utterly screwed, and vets would just spend a few days learning the new skill to lvl5 to be super-urber-invulnerable again (and now, without any preparation and intelligence needed anymore). So, please, no skill-based super solution, or I'll cry.
btw CCP never intended to purely remove instas from EVE without any new systems to compensate  no need to be too much anxious about it... un less they come up with a "woot a navigation skill" system which replaces instas at lvl5 ofc :s
For the sake of the discussion, I'm not so sure that a pure removal of instas would be so much of a disaster. Sure, BS-snipers would have better time, but they would have a lot of drawbacks: they couldn't escape so easily any incoming defensive fleet; they would have to bring their slow BS to the system (which isn't any problem today because of instas); and eventually, like any fighting group, they wouldn't be *forced* to insta gank that much...
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Cker Heel
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Posted - 2006.03.13 16:02:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Sanaen Eydanwadh
I'm not so sure that a pure removal of instas would be so much of a disaster.
Travel time is a major complaint of those who quit EVE (and those who play for that matter). Simply removing instas will hugely increase travel times.
And there's the rub. There are lots of reasons to nerf instas, but it has to be coordinated with a way for players to improve travel times. (travel here means those times when you are going far enough to put on a travel fit, instead of combat fit)
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lasarith
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Posted - 2006.03.13 16:37:00 -
[13]
the only true way to get rid of instant bookmarks for gates (i think its mostly for gate campers) is to (flame hell) -
have a 50km bubble in which no weapons work due to the feild generated by the gate/s themselfs -ergo no more gate campers -no more instant bookmarks needed -okay you may now flame me to hell 
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Jinx Barker
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Posted - 2006.03.13 17:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: lasarith
Edited by: lasarith on 13/03/2006 16:56:00
the only true way to get rid of instant bookmarks for gates (i think its mostly for gate campers) is to (flame hell) -
have a 50km bubble in which no weapons work due to the feild generated by the gate/s themselfs and cannot warp closer then the 15 km due to said feild,
-ergo no more gate campers-no more instant bookmarks needed -okay you may now flame me to hell
You do know that tempest can hit you at 170k+ w/wrecking at times? Right? So, WTF, we going to replace Close Gate Camps to 100% Sniping Gatecanmp
What about fleet battles? They usually take place around gates. So... whoever is within the magic 50k buble cant fire for s**t and are slaughtered?
As people pointed out this is a very tricky subject. I say leave Instajumps alone.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.03.13 18:57:00 -
[15]
Jinx...just make it so that ships in the bubble cannot be targetted, or target other ships. No need to affect weapons then, and no-one gets an advantage to being "just in" or "just out" of the bubble. Warping from the bubble would not be possible...you'd have to poke your head out first.
Could allow for some interesting mechanics...if on the incoming side a gate camp was present, carebears could hang around in the bubble until there were a few of them, then all make a run for it at the same time. Now that gives us a REAL predator/prey dynamic..the predators have speed and strenght, the prey has weight of numbers.
Not saying I support the idea...just that it COULD be made to work
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Pang Grohl
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:43:00 -
[16]
The call has been to not allow insta-bookmarks to gates & stations.
My only objection (aside from the unfortunate abreviation) to them has nothing to do with gate camps or lazieness. The simple fact is that instas put an end run on the advantages of having a fast ship when traveling. My Iteron III has the same or better warp speed than all but my smallest frigate. The only time that speed matters when traveling is that 30-60 seconds it takes to cover the 12.5 km to activation range for gate & stations, and instas elimitate that scenario. Once you have an insta set there is no risk to using it either.
The argument that creating bookmarks for 0km warps is challenging is pure bunk. There is no risk if you miss the mark.
I would have no problem with leaving the ability to set 0km bookmarks if there was a risk to it. Say, if collisions actually cause damage. Then if you're not careful, you bounce of the jumpgate & initiate a CONCORD response. 
Forum: A place where ideas come to prove their worth.
Portraits rock!
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