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Alice Loreley
Citadel Technologies Unit Jokers.
127
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 12:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Once upon the time EVE was a shiny brilliant, created with an understanding of science fiction. Every detail was logical and well fitted to an entire mechanism. But after the begining of new era we find ourself cutted of from old traditions. We lost our roots.
I don't know who is this new genius, who decide himself (or herself) clever enough to overwrite the laws of science fictions and basics of gamedesign. I don't want to know. And don't want to judge this person.
But i wish to ask you - what about his next step? We already have Bastion modules and Mobile depots working on "holy spirit". No fuel needed. 3000 m3 structure with 50m3 volume if packed. Foil?
And as the final mark - we have the mightiest capital ships completely defenceless against some sort of very fast and small enemies. Because they lost their dronebays. Explain me please - are the starship engineers complete idiots? In all 4 empires? Or maybe we should fit some space elves with mighty bows on their armor to oppose a stealthbombers? If you're not able to follow a simple logic, maybe you should not design any games with scientific basement? Or maybe not? Who knows... |

Katran Luftschreck
Stillwater Corporation
2098
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 12:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well after Sansha's Nation did their Incursion attack on the CONCORD base at Pearl Harbor ... Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |

Bruce Kemp
The Champions of Valhalla Gunmen of the Apocalypse
76
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Posted - 2013.12.30 12:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote:
And as the final mark - we have the mightiest capital ships completely defenseless against some sort of very fast and small enemies..
Just like the death star can destroy planets, it can be destroyed by a single small fighter. 
|

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4333
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 12:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dreads are still awesome, you just can't do silly things with them & bail yourself out with ECM drones anymore. This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13422
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 13:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: clever enough to overwrite the laws of science fictions
Which laws are these?
1 Kings 12:11
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Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
132
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 14:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
You expected intuitivness and semblance to other franchises of sci-fi genere in Eve? Welcome to real Eve. Submarines in space. :D |

Alice Loreley
Citadel Technologies Unit Jokers.
127
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 15:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Alice Loreley wrote: clever enough to overwrite the laws of science fictions Which laws are these?
You actually are able to create something from nothing. Just because you can't find out what source gives you this "nothing" and how this "nothing" turns into "something". But anyway there are some rules to make this "wonder" work. You know - some specific machinery, some technical solutions, which are familiar to you in their concept. Or as example some kind of well known technic, you're not able to make real. Dark energy power generator, railgun, antimatter bomb. You know what it is, but you don't know how to create a working prototype.
|

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1055
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 17:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: But i wish to ask you - what about his next step? We already have Bastion modules and Mobile depots working on "holy spirit". No fuel needed. 3000 m3 structure with 50m3 volume if packed. Foil?
And as the final mark - we have the mightiest capital ships completely defenceless against some sort of very fast and small enemies.
1. They're fueled by the same magic that fuels your capacitor and your warp drive. What's the problem?
2. Regular containers are smaller when repackaged as well. 50m3 to 3000 m3 isn't a big deal. And the lunar lander was pretty much made out of foil as well. And these depots are cutting-edge technology.
3. There isn't much difference between insufficient point defenses and no point defenses. The mightiest battleship or carrier from the days of WWII could be rendered crippled or doomed by a single torpedo dropped by a 1-man fighter. Or a kamikaze strike. Also, the death star. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Maxor Swift
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 17:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure. |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1055
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 17:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maxor Swift wrote:The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure.
This is just a result of it being more difficult graphically to have to missile miss and blow up near you. But yeah, lol. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Black Slag Authenticated Corrosive.
97
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 18:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Maxor Swift wrote:The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure. This is just a result of it being more difficult graphically to have to missile miss and blow up near you. But yeah, lol. I don't understand why missiles, especially kinetic damage missiles, that are guided by quantum computers don't explode in contact with the target. Of course this would negate the explosion radius/velocity numbers and would create another mega-nerf aimed at missile pilots instead of just creating an innate missile tracking/agility factor that would make it difficult for cruise missiles to impact a moving frigate. Just my thought |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
990
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Alice Loreley wrote: But i wish to ask you - what about his next step? We already have Bastion modules and Mobile depots working on "holy spirit". No fuel needed. 3000 m3 structure with 50m3 volume if packed. Foil?
And as the final mark - we have the mightiest capital ships completely defenceless against some sort of very fast and small enemies.
1. They're fueled by the same magic that fuels your capacitor and your warp drive. What's the problem? 2. Regular containers are smaller when repackaged as well. 50m3 to 3000 m3 isn't a big deal. And the lunar lander was pretty much made out of foil as well. And these depots are cutting-edge technology. 3. There isn't much difference between insufficient point defenses and no point defenses. The mightiest battleship or carrier from the days of WWII could be rendered crippled or doomed by a single torpedo dropped by a 1-man fighter. Or a kamikaze strike. Also, the death star.
Well in the case of the battleships you needed a lucky strike.. or a crap ton of bombign attempts to sink one. They were not that fragile as airplane lovers alwyas protraied them. The fact was that they ccoudl never escape from more and more planes until they woudl eventually be sunk. But sinking one was not somethign easy.. specially with 1 plane. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
990
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Maxor Swift wrote:The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure.
It show the game represent the fact taht if you try to shoot a jet sky with a cruise missile in real world you must be incredbly lucky to hit at all.
Same way if you try to shot down a butterfly with an AIM-9X "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
458
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 01:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: [...][mobile depots:] 3000 m3 structure with 50m3 volume if packed. Foil? [...]
Ever bought furniture at ikea?
Alice Loreley wrote:Malcanis wrote:Alice Loreley wrote: clever enough to overwrite the laws of science fictions Which laws are these? You actually are able to create something from nothing. Just because you can't find out what source gives you this "nothing" and how this "nothing" turns into "something". But anyway there are some rules to make this "wonder" work. You know - some specific machinery, some technical solutions, which are familiar to you in their concept. Or as example some kind of well known technic, you're not able to make real. Dark energy power generator, railgun, antimatter bomb. You know what it is, but you don't know how to create a working prototype.
My Bastionmod is fueled by Joy, according to the laws of science ficion. It says so between the lines. Conservation of energy also says that *You actually are able to create something from nothing.* is not that accurate, and not even scifi authors do that on purpose. Perpetuum mobile is a no-go. 
Edit: Else I'd only be aware of creating something and an anti-something out of nothing. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec" |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
4293
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 04:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: I don't know who is this new genius, who decide himself (or herself) clever enough to overwrite the laws of ... basics of gamedesign.
Game design is a very broad topic. I'd say that the logarithmic power progression (in power vs time/cost) we tend to see in Eve is pretty good design. I'd also say that keeping track of edge cases that throw the power progression out of whack is good for the game. So, if game design dictates that dreads don't have drones anymore, I'm ok with that.
Though, at this rate I somewhat believe that the initial efforts to defang bigger craft to allow smaller craft to flourish may need rolled back some now that the smaller craft have been outright buffed. I bet CCP has some hard data on that though, and will get around to it when the balancing wheel comes around.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
769
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 06:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Designing a game by real life logic isn't really a good idea. It's prone to power creep obsoleting entire concepts eventually, plus there's everyone trying to create pwnmobiles which is only balanced by the fact that everyone can break rules and create another pwnmobile... |

Dato Koppla
PillowFighters Inc Stealth Wear Inc.
466
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 08:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Barrogh has got it right. Trying to design Eve based around real-life logic or science is just straight up idiotic. |

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
635
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 10:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote:Explain me please - are the starship engineers complete idiots? In all 4 empires? Yes, they are. Proof is pretty much obvious - freighters. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |

Julie Arthie
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 20:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Depots are just bigger from the inside. |

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
275
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 00:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Didn't you know that all the ships and structures are made out of solar panels?
Only a few items need more fuel than can be gained in this manner. POS Bubbles take a ton of energy.
Missile DPS is based on the power of the explosion as a total. If you are only hit with part of the explosion v.s. all of it, it has a reduced effect on the max power created v.s what is effecting you. Which is why the sig radius has such a huge effect on missiles compared to guns.
I see no issues with any of it.
As far as dread with drones they were over powered. They used what little resources were used by the drone bay to improve other system functions. Sorry you don't like the engineering of the 2011 civic?  |

Ace Echo
The Shadow Raiders Fleet Coordination Coalition
48
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 02:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
- Depots are like large tents. Just sticks & foil when packed but can expand 60x their volume easily.
- Bastion modules are just energy diversions. Dreads/Carriers needed fuel because of a truly massive amount of diverted energy. The systems already built into the bastion are beefy enough to handle the relatively tiny amount of energy without external cooling. Perhaps better materials for handling them too, considering their T2 materials.
- Mobile depots are completely inactive when not being used, unlike fuel-consuming POSes. We can assume depots are powered by the ship that's using them with a small battery/solarpanel for the pretty nav lights.
See? That was easy. I didn't even have to use any stretchy sci-fi nonsense.
@ scorchlikeshiswhiskey Missiles exploding on impact Shields. I presume that even when a shield stops absorbing damage there is still some field there that can trigger missile contact triggers. |

Akemi star
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 22:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Batelle wrote:
1. They're fueled by the same magic that fuels your capacitor and your warp drive. What's the problem?
2. Regular containers are smaller when repackaged as well. 50m3 to 3000 m3 isn't a big deal. And the lunar lander was pretty much made out of foil as well. And these depots are cutting-edge technology.
3. There isn't much difference between insufficient point defenses and no point defenses. The mightiest battleship or carrier from the days of WWII could be rendered crippled or doomed by a single torpedo dropped by a 1-man fighter. Or a kamikaze strike. Also, the death star.
I m Amarr my capacitor is fueled by Antimatter. Or do you want to claim that nuclear subs also run on holy spirit just cause you cant see the fuel ? |

buyer Bedala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 00:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Maxor Swift wrote:The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure.
You want bad. Missile explosion size and missile area of effect are two different things. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8060
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 05:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
buyer Bedala wrote:Maxor Swift wrote:The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure. You want bad. Missile explosion size and missile area of effect are two different things. That would be because the latter doesn't exist in EVE (unless you consider bombs a sort of missile) and he was clearly referring to the first. So your post is rather pointless. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |

Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
168
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 20:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Maxor Swift wrote:The worst offender in this regard has to be missile explosions .In eve if you are small enough you can somehow be unaffected by explosions that have totally engulfed you interesting science for sure. hehe, well to be fair that was because the original implementation (well, v1.5) of missiles (big missiles being slow to accelerate, thus having difficulty hitting small fast ships) utterly fell over when trialled on the development server.
Referring back to the OP, one of my long standing favourites is ship masses; having km long Battleships, with metre's-thick tungsten based armour, only weighing in at 100,000 tonnesGǪ
(that's the same as a modern aircraft carrier GÇô take the same average density and apply to something the size of an Eve battleship and youGÇÖre around the 50 million tonne markGǪ)
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |

Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 20:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
whenever i play video games, i tend to operate with a bit of Suspension of Disbelief... if you're going to nitpick the details, it takes the fun away...
explain to me why there is so much noise in New Eden... what particulate is floating around that allows the sound to travel so well? |

Tasiv Deka
End-of-Line
189
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 20:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Transient Drifter wrote:whenever i play video games, i tend to operate with a bit of Suspension of Disbelief... if you're going to nitpick the details, it takes the fun away...
explain to me why there is so much noise in New Eden... what particulate is floating around that allows the sound to travel so well?
the sound bit they actually did describe... its the pod making sounds for us so we dont go mad Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1120
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 21:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Akemi star wrote:Batelle wrote:
1. They're fueled by the same magic that fuels your capacitor and your warp drive. What's the problem?
2. Regular containers are smaller when repackaged as well. 50m3 to 3000 m3 isn't a big deal. And the lunar lander was pretty much made out of foil as well. And these depots are cutting-edge technology.
3. There isn't much difference between insufficient point defenses and no point defenses. The mightiest battleship or carrier from the days of WWII could be rendered crippled or doomed by a single torpedo dropped by a 1-man fighter. Or a kamikaze strike. Also, the death star.
I m Amarr my capacitor is fueled by Antimatter. Or do you want to claim that nuclear subs also run on holy spirit just cause you cant see the fuel ? 
Your post doesn't even make sense. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

dilly nay
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 05:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
the sound in eve urks me personally. i wish there was an option to turn off all external sounds when in space.
listening to lasers and explosions in space is not particularly interesting... didnt anybody at Eve play SC BW protoss? remember the sounds when making a pylon... jesus now thats sci-fi.
Eve sounds are a complete bore |

Tajic Kaundur
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 21:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Referring back to the OP, one of my long standing favourites is ship masses; having km long Battleships, with metre's-thick tungsten based armour, only weighing in at 100,000 tonnesGǪ
(that's the same as a modern aircraft carrier GÇô take the same average density and apply to something the size of an Eve battleship and youGÇÖre around the 50 million tonne markGǪ)
Let's say an average Battleship is 1300 meters long, with a 1600mm plate. Obviously things like the Abaddon, where it's not unreasonable to fit more plates is different, but let's just go with a single plate.
So we're looking at 1300 meters long, 1.6 meters thick, and let's assume it's a cylinder- around 100 meters in each direction, with the plate on top of the 100 meter thick cylinder. So we'll need the volume of a 100m * 1600m cylinder, and the volume of a 101.6m * 1600m cylinder, and subtract the smaller cylinder from the bigger one, and that'll tell us the volume of our plate.
Small cylinder Big cylinder
So we're looking at 403,600m3 of Tungsten in total.
That's 7.77x10^6 tons.
Holy ****. |
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