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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.10 13:04:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Re Joining VA. Here is the sequence of events; VA formed, TTI join, EVO attack, TTI flee to empire space to escape and leave VA, Jericho joins VA (TTI was not on the member list or in VA channel), TTI harried by Going Limp Inc and petition to join VA again, the question is raised in VA channel and they are allowed back, TTI rejoin the alliance.
1 VA
2 VA + TTI
3 VA û TTI
4 VA + Jericho
5 VA + Jericho and TTI
6 VA û TTI
=
NVA
The mind boggles at the twisted path that has led us here, the contorted nature of which even I was barely aware of! Were it not for the momentous nature of the current events in the Amarrian Empire, one would be suprised not to see Scope fulfilling an important role in keeping pilots up to date on recent history. Let us hope that the new news service will be able to fill the hole left by Scope now concentrating on Empire Events.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
vf142rex
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Posted - 2003.09.10 13:37:00 -
[32]
Edited by: vf142rex on 10/09/2003 19:23:40
Its opposite day everybody, lets play!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 13:46:00 -
[33]
A couple of chat logs sections that prove I am telling the truth on Jericho/VA/TTI timing issues by the way;
Channelname: Venal-Alliance
Listener: Jade Constantine
Session started: 2003.07.27 16:48:33
QBall > ok guys Jerico faction is attempting to join alliance
Astaroth > oops
Tankuk > woot
Mastema > :QBall > I put them on a full access one week trial at the end of which they will either be giving membership or not
Astaroth > /emoteastaroth giggles
Astaroth > rofl
Astaroth > oops
Mastema > oh dear no boosters
QBall > Jade is their CEO DO NOT KILL JERICO CORP
Astaroth > ok
Astaroth > put em on nap then
Jade Constantine > nice to be a member of the club dear fellows will be interesting fighting by your side rather than running blockades ;)
QBall > Jade say something :)
Astaroth > lol
Quantum Matrix > Awwwh, no shooting? Dangit. :)
QBall > they have a good fleet and said they will kill stuff along side you
QBall > they should be a fine addition to the alliance
Channelname: Venal-Alliance
Listener: Jade Constantine
Session started: 2003.07.28 22:55:26
QBall > um... why do we let TTI run around in Venal?
Mark A > otherwise dont bother IMHO
Snowman > they are in the alliance
4LIFE > no they are not
Prada > They are NAP
Astaroth > nap
Snowman > they dropped out?
Prada > yeah, over the Evolution thing I hear
Indigo Seqi > nah they were never in
Mark A > It was always a NAP
Astaroth > yup
Indigo Seqi > that was just the website being wrong
Mark A > Wasn't very clearly stated though
Anla Shok > lots of confusion was going on about this
Leitari > espessially when Evo invaded and we asked for support :S
Snowman > anla is silvan back?
Anla Shok > havent seen him online but got a mail from him
mk ultra > r
Anla Shok > drop him a mail snowman, thats the best bet
Astaroth > lot of ppl on the channel tonite
Snowman > I got one from him saying he would be away
Snowman > and that nobody was there to cover for him
Astaroth > hope he set some 1 month trainin goin =)
Mastema > they all want one of your signed torps
Astaroth > got only 14 of em atmo
QBall > I dont TTI should be here
By which you can see our application to join is registered and trial membership begins while a day later in open VA channel discussions on the very presence of TTI in Venal are raised.
That seems pretty conclusive evidence to me.
JF Public Forum |
Drakmarr V
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Posted - 2003.09.10 13:55:00 -
[34]
I am pre warning this thread, keep everything civilized because I am watching every single post that gets put on it and anyone remotely breaking the rules is going to get lashings.
- Drakmarr VonDimus MacBanyon
Polaris Centurion
Lead Forum Moderator
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 14:04:00 -
[35]
So Bill m'dear, please don't think me naive. The things I have said are supported by the facts and firm evidence. I think I am due another retraction and full apology from you, wouldn't you agree?
Love and peace.
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 14:25:00 -
[36]
Quote:
I wasnt even aware she declared war on the $31million dollar man. Truly pathetic Jade. You criticize someone for doing what youve done yourself.
I suggest you re-read the response m'dear Shadamm. And this time try to understand what was said.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 14:32:00 -
[37]
Quote:
lol, Jade, bull SH1T! TTI joined the alliance waaaaay before Jericho did...
Ah Morpheus ... I think you will find an awful lot of confusion in the definition of the original alliance membership for TTI. They don't even believe they were members when they abandoned the region to the first Evo invasion.
As for the latter membership ... it only became a done deal when Qball made Ragnar state it in the VA channel. That was the only way to bind them to their word.
Please don't think me a fool with no ability to keep records of conversations and facts m'dear.
Bill may have set a standard for spin-without-substance and blatent lying here,
But I am always careful in the things I say and the facts I state.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.10 15:14:00 -
[38]
Adn my dear Jade you have the remarkable skill of getting to the well first.
However I am going to withhold any opinions till I hear from Q-ball. At least I trust what he says as it's not ever something designed for the moment.
Hot headed, boisterous, and sometimes uncouth but Q-ball has integrity. He's not a mercenary with his statements. You are quite the self confessed one so pardon me if I don't take your word for it.
Oh wait... I'm a brainwashed TTI plebe... sorry.
$#!! Jade, you #$#!! #$@!!.
Make you feel better?
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 15:17:00 -
[39]
So Mr vf142rex?
Let me get this straight?
You are a member of Taggart, and you claim knowledge of this whole situation. You state that ôNAPÆs are next to worthless.ö
I think I can begin to see why Taggart encourage their members not to post on the forums now!
So in early days you say (directly contradicting Morpheus) that TTI signed NAP (that you considered worthless) just so your corporation could continue exploiting Venal and making money behind the protective presence of poor fools who actually did consider the NAP worth more than hollow words.
Right so far?
Then Evolution invaded and TTI ran for cover. Later on TTI was having trouble in empire space and wanted access to Y-4cfk and 6nj9-v again (to harvest the wealth of Venal once more).
This time the VA represented by Qball pressed Ragnar into a formal declaration of alliance (Which I witnessed since Jericho was already on VA channel).
Ragnar agreed, TTI joined, and the rest is history.
Until Evo and Xan invaded again (declaring their intent to punish TTI) and the subsequent war revealed the true depths of TaggartÆs commitment to allies. Though to be honest, your ôNAP's are next to worthless.ö Comment says quite a bit about your corporations approach to diplomacy and diplomatic agreements in and of itself.
JF Public Forum |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.10 15:31:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 10/09/2003 15:34:31
I think you spin his earthy commentary too far actually. Or better let me speak from my own experience...
Was mining in Venal for a very long time prior to VA's existance. Would travel back and forth, here and there. Would eat through 'roids like a gopher. It's what I do.
I remember some conflicting statements being made when the VA started to make it's presence known. I, among many others, had reservations about being NAP with an outfit that was piratical in nature. The TTI execs talk to us, using very slow and uncomplicated words, about something called realities.
Realities of the situation were simply that VA has decided to claim this space. That being Sec Level 0.0 this was a part of Eve reality. That to continue our good works we need to deal with "what is" not "what we would always wish it to be".
Reason won out. NAP was formed.
To this day I still transport back and forth in Venal. Many of my personal crew do. The wars have not stopped, nor slowed, this at all. To be quite honest I really don't care who is at war with who. Not part of what I derive from playing Eve.
And this so called argument about BYOM... Pshah! TTI's producers can not make ships from nothing. And TTI Miners were mining their butts off to help with the Bring in BYOM. I know, I pushed for that non stop. It wasn't only VA people on those frontlines and even if if it was you don't abandon your mates.
Of course being a war veteran brings that very close to home to me, oog.
This is the part about these so called moles that disgust me. If they are going to report I wish they'd report everything. Not spin it themselves.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:15:00 -
[41]
Shar Tegral,
IÆm not sure what your ôwellö comment means in context IÆm afraid; but yes, I do keep logs of important discussions against just such eventualities as we have seen here. The timing of the Jericho VA membership was always going to the hurled in our faces. It was important to keep a record of that timing. Part of Public Relations work is anticipating the dirt that will be hurled.
Yes Shar, I am a mercenary. But lest you forget; when I commit to a cause I donÆt break contract. Jericho joined the VA. We have always been loyal to the best interests of the VA. Note the ôVAö; not individual corporations of the VA. Taggart acted against the best interests and was the subject of an expulsion vote. Its quite simple.
And donÆt worry about me poking fun at your posts mÆdear; keep them intelligent and interesting and youÆll have little to fear. And re silly abuse, no mÆdear, it doesnÆt make me feel better, but one gets used to the yapping of lap-dogs eventually.
Re ôspinningö your comrades words; I simply quoted him. You are one, who by adding the ô*earthyö prefix to his words, is attempting to do that. [*earthy as in crass, unsophisticated, blunt, but presenting the truth in simple but homespun terms] That single addition to a stated opinion is called a ôSpinö mÆdear.
What I would ask you is this;
You state your miners were working ôtheir butts offö to help bring in BYOM. That doesnÆt make sense. BYOM means that the people who need ships (our pilots) provide their own minerals. How does Taggart mining help the cause of our pilots replacing rides destroyed in the war?
Re moles and spin; what do you expect? Everybody who has ever posted on this issue is bringing a degree of bias to the proceedings, you most recently included.
Love and peace.
JF Public Forum |
QBall
|
Posted - 2003.09.10 16:30:00 -
[42]
Edited by: QBall on 10/09/2003 16:38:02
Ok bill from the turns of these forums even though I didn't really want to let me know in game if you want the real no spin zone.
Do to the hammering effect of boards, we can put the real VA up there. I'm at work right now on a "smoke break" but I stopped smoking so I'm all twitchy now, don't smoke it's addictive and makes you twitch as hell when you quit.
As for Jade/Athuel, here's your chance to post all the real stuff before it all get's put up. At least I'm giving you fair warning eh?
Either that or just stop slamming away at the boards. Like I asked earlier.
Havana,
Morpheus is the actual CREATOR of the alliance, but then his computer broke (you know real life problems), for about a month, in which the VA almost fell apart when it was picked up by TCE Requiem for about a week and a half (durring the time of the first evo attacks), Shortly after that TCE disappeared from game (Another Real Life problem about the where they lived etc.) so then I kept things running from then all the way up to midway through the 2nd evo/va war.
JERICO joined up somewhere between the first evo and 2nd evo war. And for Athule to say I just handled stuff is insane. The only reason Jerico ever became a member is because I had been out bar hopping all night when Jade contacted me asking and I said sure why not on a trial bases. I consulted no one on the decision so I guess that woulda made me the leader of venal and the only reason you guys got in...
I could have just as easily have said no. Just because I didn't set on a podium screaming I am your leader.
--------
"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Bill O'Reilly
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:32:00 -
[43]
A Factor producer will contact you when you log back into the game, Q.
Thanks for setting the record straight.
Bill O'Reill
EVE-Foxnews
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:42:00 -
[44]
Bill O'Reilly never lets an idea interrupt the flow of his conversation, does he?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Berd
|
Posted - 2003.09.10 16:49:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Berd on 10/09/2003 16:50:57
Quote:
So Mr vf142rex?
Let me get this straight?
You are a member of Taggart, and you claim knowledge of this whole situation. You state that ôNAPÆs are next to worthless.ö
So in early days you say (directly contradicting Morpheus) that TTI signed NAP (that you considered worthless) just so your corporation could continue exploiting Venal and making money behind the protective presence of poor fools who actually did consider the NAP worth more than hollow words.
Right so far?
Not sure. Perhaps you should ask Mr. vf142rex what he meant by his comment "NAPs are next to worthless", before continuing your track of logic to the conclusion that vf142rex, and therefore all of TTI think that NAPs are worthless.
Perhaps vf was referring to the NAP that we did have with M0o, and how poorly that was adhered to since some of our ships were still being destroyed during that NAP (albeit on a less frequent basis). I cannot say that that is what he is saying. But I ask him to comment further on what he meant, instead of drawing my own conclusions and then formulating a theory based upon that unsubstantiated conclusion.
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vf142rex
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:53:00 -
[46]
Edited by: vf142rex on 10/09/2003 19:24:44
Its opposite day, everybody rejoice.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:54:00 -
[47]
Feel free to post away QBall, I've never said anything that I would deny.
As to you being the actual leader of the VA - maybe there should be a vote on that? It certainly never seemed that way to me during the time I've been there - either at the start or now in the NVA, maybe I was wrong. Maybe when TTi says you're their leader I'll have to eat my words.
As to what happened in the VA before we joined, well hardly suprising we don't know is it?
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
QBall
|
Posted - 2003.09.10 16:57:00 -
[48]
Fine, forums for all I'll put it all together when I get home.
--------
"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:05:00 -
[49]
I concur with Athule. We have nothing to hide. I have all the same chat logs Qball.
Love and peace.
JF Public Forum |
Hardin
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:12:00 -
[50]
/me looks forward to an interesting evening of reading 
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:12:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Jade, I guess today is opposite day, because that was how you "interpretted" my post.
I quoted you word for word.
Quote:
Do you have any concept of how often NAP's are broken in any online game?
I don't care. I do care about having been in an alliance with a corporation that considered NAP's worthless. That is evidence of fantastic cynicism on the part of Taggart negotiators.
Quote:
Hell, I've seen "U"NAP's broken on a regular basis. (u=unbreakable). That is what makes them worthless.
Like I say, I don't care. I do care about what you go on record as saying as a TTI member.
Quote:
By the way, why don't the other jericho fraction members post?
They do.
JF Public Forum |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:19:00 -
[52]
I did not mean to imply that you break contract. However you forgot one thing on this;
Quote:
Yes Shar, I am a mercenary
Mercenary Spin Doctor.
I'm not a spinner. I apologize if I've given that impression. I think Vfrex was quite down to earth on the values of most NAP's. They are worth nothing.
A non-agression treaty is only good till aggression starts. And most don't give notice. Some do... but to sit a cry foul becuase someone that has a NAP with you didn't come to dig you out of trouble? Please.
As to alliance matters... I can state unequivocally that I was on the frontlines occasionally. That I was part of TTI efforts to support our allies. One portion of TTI said BYOM. Another said ok... lets go get that!
As much as you like to tout about how big TTI is, or how small (It seems to waffle!), nothing just happens. One sections does A, another does B. Timezones do greatly effect this as well as location. But that's the reality of a very large and diverse corporation.
For all that you keep saying that Ragnar is a meglomaniac dictator he is not. But equally he is not without influence nor the ability to act decisively... It's a balance.
Balance - meaning more than one side in equal support. So I reiterate... One side said BYOM. Becuase ships can't be made from your words. Another side said ok... we'll go help get that.
Take from that what you will.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:24:00 -
[53]
Shar Tegral
You didn't answer my question.
How does Taggart mining help VA fighters achieve the requirements for BYOM deals?
JF Public Forum |
Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:35:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Mongo Peck on 10/09/2003 17:36:27
Jade, Jade, Jade......... shhhhh, QBall has asked you to be quiet, it very clear your constant forum dribble is upsetting your alliance ...
No Yap Yap ....
Mongo speaks !!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:48:00 -
[55]
Oh Mr Pecker ;)
Is this some kind of cry for notice or roundabout application to join the NVA? You spend more time commenting on our operations than you do on your own. And perhaps you have failed to realise the NVA is an alliance representing member corporations in democratic union. As such Qball has right to ask but not insist. I realise that looking in from the blizzard of Taggart political constraints the bright shop-window of the NVA council may look appealing, but in truth, I do not think we are in the market for puling lapdogs at the moment.
JF Public Forum |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:57:00 -
[56]
Quote:
How does Taggart mining help VA fighters achieve the requirements for BYOM deals?
Hmmm... ok. VA Fighters should be busy fighting right? So where does the M of BYOM come from... from miners. We, the TTI miners, understood this from the start. TTI can not make a person do something it does not want to do. So TTI avoids high handed commandments.
However TTI encourages its members to produce creative, timely, and efficient solutions. That's the general rule. Profitability is derived from the application of that. Period.
I believed it to be profitable to spend my time mining to satisfy BYOM's for replacement ships. I may count profitability as "Rewarding activity for my $12.95(us) monthly fee" where as others do not.
But as I've tried telling you. Many things were sudden and precipitous. To be honest my worst fears were realized. The people that I wanted to help so much are now listed as enemies.
You can take this anyway you want to as for as I care. Ragnar must act according to the best interest of the corporation. Be it in the market, in space, or in the forums. I'm not so limited as I've not taken on that responsibility.
I can come here and say these things becuase I'm just rank and file. I can allow my instincts and feelings dictate a major portion of my activities. Ragnar can not. If he did the roasting you guys have been doing would be small beans indeed compared to what we would have given him.
It ain't fair but it's the blessed truth. Life ain't fair nor is Eve far too often. And TTI ain't going to always be fair either, internally or externally. TTI has it's direction and if I happen to step in it's path then that is my lookout. I'm expected to be smart enough to know what is what. And I generally do...
The bottom line is this. VA Fighters had the respect of all of TTI. We may not like you, or your actions, or continued "statements". But I wish you'd get it through your head that rank and file, grunt and non-grunt, TTI did not want this turn of events. That I do know as being gospel.
However TTI will do what it needs to do. I expect it to be so even if I'm not always aware of why. Trust and integrity is the coin of the realm for me. TTI has consistently provided that to sufficiency with me. I don't always like my fellows but they are, after all, my fellows.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 18:07:00 -
[57]
Shar Tegral,
You still haven't answered my question. How does TTI mining help VA fighters to satisfy the requirements for BYOM purchase?
(B)ring Y)our (O)wn (M)inerals.
This means that Taggart offered to build ships for the VA if the pilots mined or bought their own minerals and transported them to Taggart shipyards.
Your own efforts helped not a wit, unless of course you are saying you intended to give the fruits of your mining to dismounted VA fighters?
So please answer the question at the third time of asking?
JF Public Forum |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.10 18:19:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 10/09/2003 18:21:15
Quote:
Your own efforts helped not a wit, unless of course you are saying you intended to give the fruits of your mining to dismounted VA fighters?
Ok.. I may not have typed slow enough for you.
Quote:
TTI's producers can not make ships from nothing. And TTI Miners were mining their butts off to help with the Bring in BYOM. I know, I pushed for that non stop. It wasn't only VA people on those frontlines and even if if it was you don't abandon your mates.
Quote:
So where does the M of BYOM come from... from miners. We, the TTI miners, understood this from the start.
Quote:
I believed it to be profitable to spend my time mining to satisfy BYOM's for replacement ships.
In single syllables since you seem to keep missing the point.
Yes.
You've been answered. You bore me with your intentional density in the face of literary much akin to thy own. Till we meet anon fair viper.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.10 18:36:00 -
[59]
So Shar Tegral ... you were mining with the intent to build ships for free for the VA? Is that what you are saying?
JF Public Forum |
teh pR3acH3r
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Posted - 2003.09.10 18:43:00 -
[60]
ummmm hi.
qball imo you are taking this too personally. You mad at me now? Are you gonna release some logs about me or tell me to stop posting on the boards?
the point is everyone and their moms can come on the boards and fight over "I did this, I did that, i run ****nit, ya im leet" But so what? What does that have to do with what we (NVA) is trying to accomplish? Who cares about morpheous starting the old VA? I can point out numerous mistakes in your threads as well man, but I dont take **** so personally.
Chill bro.
_________________________________
Indefinately MIA
Former CEO Occassus Republica - Military Division Leader
Founding members of the Venal Alliance
You'll Find Religion When I Find You |
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