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Had this part of the ToS highlighted to me by a GM - Thanks :)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 960	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:03:00 - [31] - Quote silens vesica wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: A person who does not enjoy loosing ships has their individual ability to enjoy the game impacted... I enjoy loosing ships. I usualy scream Havoc! at the computer whilst so-doing. Especially in times of war. I don't necessarily, but the possibility of it in certain contexts gives the game a flavor that keeps it from getting stale rather quickly.
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 773	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:05:00 - [32] - Quote I think the GMs should ban the OP. Just for good measure, you can never be certain these days. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á
Jill Chastot Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok. 95	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:07:00 - [33] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: Jill Chastot wrote: The thread needn't be locked, i left a perfectly good response to OP one up from you. Hopefully at least one soul will take it to heart and understand they can respond to other players interactions That was indeed a reasonable response. Yet still it is open to an individuals interpretation. While for example - bumping a ship - isn't DDoSing or spamming, it is still stopping the players ability to warp and therefore their ability to perform a in game action, much as spamming invites would stop someone from clicking the UI. regarding invite spam that is considered petitionable by CCP who have acted upon it before, and bumping to prevent warp is a non targeted form of disruption, as such is allowed. (is it actually possible for one person to bump a barge so much that is is unable to warp out? At most they knock you off alignment for a bit, but i think you should be able to pilot yourself out of that no problems.)
Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1206	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:11:00 - [34] - Quote You forgot the very very important qualifier at the end of the first sentence, " in accordance with its rules." Everything you mentioned in your bullets is 'within the rules'.
voetius Caldari Provisions Caldari State 170	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:12:00 - [35] - Quote The reasons why the Eula / Tos is not precise is because: 1. It would have to be infinately long to account for every possible circumstance because any individiual circumstance could be combined with any other to infinity 2. Rules Lawyers will always dispute the meaning of words HTH
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 2244	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:14:00 - [36] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: You could turn this around We could, if we wanted to sit around playing semantics. Quote: My point is, GM's and ISD are given far too much power with the ToS/EULA being open like this. Your point is invalid. The GMs and ISD have exactly the correct amount of power: The amount that CCP wants them to have. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today.
Kinis Deren The Nyan Cat Pirates Disband. 256	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:16:00 - [37] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: The first sentence is far far far too open to a[n] individual[']s perception....... See, if we cut out the blah blah all we are left with is your false premise. If any player feels they are being griefed, there's a perfectly adequate petition system through which the GMs will deliver their judgement. I know you are just a NPC alt, so I'll put this politely .... take your medicine (your GM slap to the wrist), HTFU or GTFO. Into PVP & looking for small gang focused, NPC Null corp? Check out The Nyan Cat Pirates! Corp CEO looking for an easy going, none sov, PVP alliance? Join Disband. today!
Dersen Lowery Laurentson INC StructureDamage 931	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:23:00 - [38] - Quote Domanique Altares wrote: Your point is invalid. The GMs and ISD have exactly the correct amount of power: The amount that CCP wants them to have. And the reason they have that power is because if they put hard numbers down, the Internet Lawyers will toe those lines as closely as possible, bumping people for 2 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds if the limit is 3 hours, then coming back to continue. That's exactly the sort of parsing that neither CCP nor any other game developer has any interest in encouraging. it's not easy to get warned for griefing in EVE, OP. That you have managed to is remarkable, and not in a good way. Your scaremongering here is ridiculous. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

ISD LackOfFaith ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1054	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:25:00 - [39] - Quote Quote: 9. Posting of private CCP communication is prohibited. The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, EVE Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties. Thread locked, and it will be cleaned up of any non-allowed communication posted. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter

Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 2244	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:31:00 - [40] - Quote ISD LackOfFaith wrote: Unlocking thread. My bad. Do you people see this gross abuse of power? Clearly the TOS and EULA need to be amended so that ISD can never again unlock a thread. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today.
Prie Mary Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 28	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:38:00 - [41] - Quote ISD LackOfFaith wrote: Unlocking thread. My bad. Easily done, it was quite a wall of text. Credit where its due you unlocked very quickly. This thread was only opened as I was shocked at how vague the ToS was, and wanted to get other peoples opinions on the matter. Like many others must have, I just clicked "yes" and didn't take the time to read what was actually in it, until today. Dont just think outside the box, Live outside of it...
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 1925	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:53:00 - [42] - Quote What ever you did, do not do it again. If you are planning to do a slight variation of whatever you did, don't. If you are minded to do something which you think might be a bit 'iffy' check with CCP that it is okay to do whatever before you do it. Think - act. It is very important to get, think - act, in the correct order. This is not a signature.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 15486	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:53:00 - [43] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: ISD LackOfFaith wrote: Unlocking thread. My bad. Easily done, it was quite a wall of text. Credit where its due you unlocked very quickly. This thread was only opened as I was shocked at how vague the ToS was, and wanted to get other peoples opinions on the matter. Like many others must have, I just clicked "yes" and didn't take the time to read what was actually in it, until today. You'll find most ToS's are the same, deliberately vague. Lawyers like vague stuff, it's easy to twist. The difference between CCP and other Devs is that CCP generally takes pride in the way we push the envelope and break stuff, and often welcomes accidental bonus mechanics discovered by players. If they consider something an exploit or harassment they'll generally tell us, if it's not then they might tell us, if we're lucky.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 8144	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:14:00 - [44] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: You're right, it's badly worded. Let's just cut out that sentence altogether. OP liked this post. I think he misunderstood my point. I think the sentence should be removed so crybaby carebears don't have that to point to. "CCP they're interfering with my ability to enjoy the game please please please ban them I can't deal with it I just can't." My EVE Videos
Angelica Dreamstar Epic Boo Bees 75	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:45:00 - [45] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: I Love Boobies wrote: My Magic Crystal Ball is telling me this thread may be locked due to discussing GM communications. I have not discussed the conversation or event so I cant see why it would. I do however call upon ANYBODY loosing a ship.. be it in 0.0 or empire to file petitions as under this current ToS many circumstances in which you die might be effecting your ability to enjoy the game, and should entitle you to a reimbursement. How does one loose a ship exactly? And where did you put it, that you had to get it loose ? Oh my ... I don't want to know ......................................... New player feeling neglected? You're important from day 1!!! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (female chars only, RP!)
Felicity Love Whore and Peace 1439	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:54:00 - [46] - Quote Serious borking their "ability to enjoy the game" and seriously borking their ability to play the game -- well, some people can't do either so really the TOS could be interpreted to emphasize that fact as much as anything else someone cares to read into it. Can't have a proper Apocalypse without "The Man", Johnny Cash. -áTrue story.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 373	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:27:00 - [47] - Quote Jill Chastot wrote: The thread needn't be locked, i left a perfectly good response to OP one up from you. Hopefully at least one soul will take it to heart and understand they can respond to other players interactions I fear you will be leaving here disappointed. Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 2827	Posted - 2014.01.07 01:46:00 - [48] - Quote Felicity Love wrote: Serious borking their "ability to enjoy the game" and seriously borking their ability to play the game -- well, some people can't do either so really the TOS could be interpreted to emphasize that fact as much as anything else someone cares to read into it. Does that mean I can get idiots banned from the game for being stupid in my general proximity under a ToS violation charge? Huzzah! There go 3/4 of the miners! Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Jessica Danikov Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 205	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:37:00 - [49] - Quote A lot of people seem to miss the fact that the End User License Agreement is all about the relationship between any individual player and CCP, not the relationship between other players. It doesn't bind CCP in any way. Instead it provides a reasonable set of expectations for players to follow- stepping outside of the agreement doesn't necessitate a ban, but probably will invite one. Grey areas are equally dubious. Point is that CCP have final say on who can or cannot access the game and exercise their best judgement- the EULA merely provides a guideline for how that judgement will typically fall and thus is subject to updates as policy is changed or updated.
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 2286	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:48:00 - [50] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game". You forgot the 'in accordance with the rules' part. Oh god.
Pipa Porto 1499	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:53:00 - [51] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: rule 16 of the ToS: "You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world." Wrong definition of the word "enjoy." Legal documents use the second definition. In other words, you could rewrite the sentence thus: "You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to benefit from the game or web site in accordance with its rules." The sole benefit of the game subscription is, of course, access to the game. Quote: en-+joy en-êjoi/ verb 1. take delight or pleasure in (an activity or occasion). 2. possess and benefit from. "the security forces enjoy legal immunity from prosecution" EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto

CCP Guard C C P C C P Alliance 4520	Posted - 2014.01.07 09:42:00 - [52] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: Kryptik Kai wrote: This is going to get locked anyway but... you seem to have glossed over the "in accordance with its rules" part. None of your examples are against the rules, so no problem. Whatever you did was against the rules, so theres a problem. Not so vague. The rules are not stated. As such there are no rules? If you read laws in the so called real world of puny mortals, they are often generally worded and sometimes refer to regulations and precedents which are to be found elsewhere. The examples named in the original post are either intended game mechanics specifically put in place to be used as such, or come with a history of precedents and GM guidelines relatively well known to the player base. The nature of the game is that you can't write down a hard coded set of rules detailing every scenario. It would be equal parts boring and impossible :) In this case it says you can't stop people from enjoying the game in accordance with the rules, which refers to behavior such as abusing glitches, knowingly affecting connectivity, spamming ascii pictures of genitalia etc True, GMs have the power to interpret but not individually and arbitrarily. There's all sorts of checks and balances not to forget all the elder GMs who can be summoned with dark magic if needed. If you knew how long and hard those guys can debate a contended issue, you'd feel so warm and safe <3 CCP Guard \| EVE Community Developer \|-á@ccp_guard

Ray Malukker Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:27:00 - [53] - Quote it really says 16. You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. Yea, though I walk into the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me Psalm 23:4
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4365	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:32:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Guard wrote: spamming ascii pictures of genitalia Aww damn... Wait, so it's ok for me to spam imgur links of my own genitalia? This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013.

CCP Falcon 5498	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:50:00 - [55] - Quote I Love Boobies wrote: My Magic Crystal Ball is telling me this thread may be locked due to discussing GM communications. No, but it will be locked for being absolutely ridiculous. "You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules." Please stop making bad posts. Locked. CCP Falcon -á \|\| -á EVE Community Manager -á \|\| -á EVE Illuminati @CCP_Falcon -á \|\| -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents


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