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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.10 06:21:00 -
[1]
To start I will admit that after the tragic loss of both my scorpion and my raven, I have spent a considerable amount of time tooling around in a thorax.
I think this ship is a piece of trash. On paper it looks fairly decent, but in practice it gets wtfpwned by the rupture and moa (never met a maller).
a) Gimpy CPU & Grid
This is the one overriding problem with this ship. Without massive training upgrades, you are hard pressed to fit anything worthwhile because of its totally lame CPU and powergrid. Without upgrading the grid using loads of power diags or core boosters, you can't fit more than two 250mm rails (and fit three more smaller turrets or two turrets and a smartbomb). The CPU hardly allows you to fill your low slots with damage mods while at the same time using shield hardeners or god forbit a MWD.
b) Gimpy Shields
It is plain fact that shields are superior to armor in terms of defense. The thorax has crap shields and thus cannot compete toe to toe with a moa in terms of tanking. Moreover, 1 less high and mid slot surely cannot be compensated by extra drone space?
Yes, I know a thorax's strength lies in its drones. But a couple of well-placed smartbomb pulses will ruin any drone user's day. Essentially, the thorax, despite its 5 turrets, can offer a weak loadout supplemented by low slot modules that only serve to boost the grid and CPU. Its natural defense (shield capacity) is very weak, and the 3 mid slots totally prevent the pilot from compensating for this weakness.
In short, thorax gets wtfpwned by moas and ruptures.
PS.. with the missile changes these issues are compounded even more as it will be both easier to kill the drones and smash the ship up.
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.10 06:27:00 -
[2]
The Thorax's value as a combat ship is greatly diminished by the lack of repair drones and a GOOD drone interface.
But hey, at least I can mine 583m3/minute with it! 
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.10 06:28:00 -
[3]
It's a great miner. What do you expect from a french ship?
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
QBall
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Posted - 2003.09.10 06:35:00 -
[4]
Um... load it up with dual 150 proto types and damage modes, then throw a shield booster or whatever else you want in the mids and poof, you kick the crap outa almost anything as long as you don't get jammed.
Seriously big guns dont always equal better.
--------
"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.09.10 07:29:00 -
[5]
Sure.
You can kill Heavy drones with smartbombs? Before you can even dent one, 8 to 10 heavy combat drones would have gnawed your ship to the bone and you will be in a pod.
That's how powerful a heavy combat drone is. 9 to 10 of them like facing 8 to 10 Punishers or Incursus at the same time.
Used with heavy combat drones, the Thorax is the ship to beat when it comes to damage.
If you're talking about guns alone, the Maller wins. Nothing beats the Maller's sheer power grid, cap, and number of low slots.
Admittedly the Moa comes best in defense and range.
But do remember, that unlike the Moa, the Thorax has hybrid bonus damage. in fact, Gallente is the only race whose cruiser have a damage bonus. I fly both Gallente and Caldari cruisers both with rail guns, and I know, even if I fit damage mods on the Caldari cruiser (Moa) the rail guns on a Gallente ship is whacking out more damage per shot. And I can still fit more damage mods on the Thorax (five slots) than on a Moa (four slots).
Turrent fans will vouch right now---until missiles are fixed---that one turret is still better two missile launchers. So the Thorax has five, while the Rupture and the Moa has three. However in my experience though, when the situation gets tough, missiles can turn things around.
Franklly I think you have a "the grass is greener over the fence" sort of thing. I find major flaws on every level 3 cruiser to ***** out and make you think that another level 3 cruiser would be better when in fact, they're not and they suck one way or another.
Maller: No missiles, no Drones, lack midslots
Rupture: CPU sucks. Really sucks. Lacks midslots too.
Moa: lacks low slots and drones.
Thorax: You just said it.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.09.10 08:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 10/09/2003 08:02:31
I tried this setup once and it worked pretty well:
5 x heavy ions / plutonium ammo (any decent ammo would do really)
1 x warp jammer
1 x X5 webber
1 x mwd
low slots: 1 alpha od, rest was dmg mods.
warp in, kick mwd get close (like 2-8 km), jam, web and fire.
optionally unload wasps.
this setup kicked some Moa butt too 
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Thunis
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Posted - 2003.09.10 08:42:00 -
[7]
MOA have 4 weapon turrets, right? and 2 missile launchers for some heavy cruise missiles for PVP, right? what was the problem?
"Eve-life is like a box of Adult movies. One way or another you get banged up and screwed!" |
darth solo
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Posted - 2003.09.10 09:50:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
MOA have 4 weapon turrets, right? and 2 missile launchers for some heavy cruise missiles for PVP, right? what was the problem?
Yip the Moa has 4 turrets and 2 launchers, 3 250mm rails with 1 150mm for close range, that leaves 2 m12 launchers fitted with 1 cruise each.
A very hard ship to destroy. Lack of low slots???, it has 4.
The thorox has to use the drone space, if u dont u are mad:).
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.09.10 11:17:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Sure.
You can kill Heavy drones with smartbombs? Before you can even dent one, 8 to 10 heavy combat drones would have gnawed your ship to the bone and you will be in a pod.
That's how powerful a heavy combat drone is. 9 to 10 of them like facing 8 to 10 Punishers or Incursus at the same time.
Used with heavy combat drones, the Thorax is the ship to beat when it comes to damage.
If you're talking about guns alone, the Maller wins. Nothing beats the Maller's sheer power grid, cap, and number of low slots.
Admittedly the Moa comes best in defense and range.
But do remember, that unlike the Moa, the Thorax has hybrid bonus damage. in fact, Gallente is the only race whose cruiser have a damage bonus. I fly both Gallente and Caldari cruisers both with rail guns, and I know, even if I fit damage mods on the Caldari cruiser (Moa) the rail guns on a Gallente ship is whacking out more damage per shot. And I can still fit more damage mods on the Thorax (five slots) than on a Moa (four slots).
Turrent fans will vouch right now---until missiles are fixed---that one turret is still better two missile launchers. So the Thorax has five, while the Rupture and the Moa has three. However in my experience though, when the situation gets tough, missiles can turn things around.
Franklly I think you have a "the grass is greener over the fence" sort of thing. I find major flaws on every level 3 cruiser to ***** out and make you think that another level 3 cruiser would be better when in fact, they're not and they suck one way or another.
Maller: No missiles, no Drones, lack midslots
Rupture: CPU sucks. Really sucks. Lacks midslots too.
Moa: lacks low slots and drones.
Thorax: You just said it.
The Rupture has 4 turrets and 2 launchers actually.
Mercenary | The Azath |
Elfman
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Posted - 2003.09.10 15:02:00 -
[10]
Thorax setup for 30K+ rats
2x250mm 2xHvy Neutron
1 med shield booster
2x hardener (1 of each type that are rats main damage type)
4 cap recharge boosters(+20% each) for a 119 cap racharge
1 power diag (to help fit all the guns ETC)
Managed to tank 45 30-40K rats last night before finally finishing them off (Not intended but they kept spawning in 3's before I could quiet kill the last)
Lowest shields was about 50% lowest cap about 45%
Mind you I did get through 1000 rounds of ammo
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.10 15:16:00 -
[11]
I have both a Moa and a Thorax, the Thorax gets used for mining, while the Moa gets used for NPC farming.
If I could fit the same amount of damage to the 'rax as I can put on the Moa, I might change over, but otherwise, they will stay in the roles I've given them.
Maybe when the 150mm buff from chaos drops, I might rethink my strategy, as I set up a 5x150 + damage mods setup on chaos, and it is absolutely fantastic. With drones too, it would only get better.
.
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Ashton Black
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:00:00 -
[12]
No other cruiser can beat the 'rax in mining.
If I'm going NPC Farming out comes the Maller and if I'm (attempting) PvP then I gotta side with BB (Hopefully with some back up!)
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:06:00 -
[13]
Thorax is a close range gunboat. 5 blasters, 2-3 mags (which leave you with plenty of cpu & grid to play around with) and level 3-4 gunnery skills will give you a staggering DoT. I don't even need to calculate the drones. Cap is a minor if not insignificant issue when you use blasters.
On a one Vs one if your in a Moa and a 5-Blaster Rax gets within 8km you'd better pray your warp kicks in FAST.
Also missiles might be better now in Chaos but AOF now works... when you are close enough to be able to see the Rax pilot waving at you Cruise and Torps will be useless or equally harmfull to both.
Even a BBird has to be careful cause even though it can lock the Thorax, if the pilot is any good he ll have drones out which means they ll auto attack the BBird once it starts firing.
Every ship has a role that it is good at... for Thorax it is close range... however close range is tricky they way game mechanics work atm so most people always try to go for 250mms... and end up turing their high slot array into a freaking salad.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Saladin
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Posted - 2003.09.10 17:35:00 -
[14]
I don't think the thorax is gimped, but I am dissapointed that it has the same CPU/Powergrid of the Stabber (tier 2 minmatar cruiser)
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(c) Copyright Saladin, 2005.
Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.10 18:12:00 -
[15]
The throax has 50 grid more than the stabber 
A thorax fitted for closerange is very powerful indeed. Farming NPCs is very nice with it. And it's the only lvl3 cruiser which has a damage mod as special AFAIK.
free speech not allowed here |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.10 18:17:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Thorax is a close range gunboat.
I can sit at 24km out and pop rats with my 250's all day long (or at least till I run out of ammo anyway )
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.09.11 00:13:00 -
[17]
"The Rupture has 4 turrets and 2 launchers actually."
I said the CPU sucks on the Rupture. Nothing to do with the layout. By the way, Rupture can also do 3 launchers and 3 turrets.
The CPU of the Rupture is only as good as that of the Omen. That means you have to train up your electronics skills, add CPU boosters (use up one low slot), reduce CPU usage, or use modules with lower CPU usage.
Ironically, the Stabber has better CPU than the Rupture.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.09.11 00:26:00 -
[18]
"If I could fit the same amount of damage to the 'rax as I can put on the Moa, I might change over, but otherwise, they will stay in the roles I've given them."
I'm not sure how a Moa can inflict more damage than the Thorax. Unless you mean with missiles of course, but then you have to consider what heavy combat drones can do, and I think 8 to 10 HCDs can kill a cruiser faster than the flight time of a cruise missile or torpedo. :)
Turret to turret alone the Thorax can inflict more damage than a Moa. Thorax has five turrets vs the Moa with four. Thorax has a damage bonus; Moa a range bonus. Thorax has five low slots to put mods; Moa has four. Moa does have a stronger powergrid and CPU, so somehow you can put stronger weapons on the four slots. But you really don't want a Thorax up close with MWD and blasters.
I use a Thorax for mining and Moa (and a Rupture and four other cruisers) for NPC hunting too. But the reason I use a Moa is the opposite: the Moa has better defenses. And there is the other reason---too many people got Thoraxes, even in the Amarr region, so seeing one is getting to be quite a bore. Darn Thoraxes are so popular that I begin to see less and less of the other cruiser types.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.11 04:21:00 -
[19]
I hadn't thought about the close-range thorax setup. That could be uber. Where's my anode neutrons???
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.09.11 11:56:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I hadn't thought about the close-range thorax setup. That could be uber. Where's my anode neutrons???
For a 5 blaster loadout i would recommend ions. In TQ atm they are better than neutrons in all fields apart from Single Shot Damage (insignificant as DoT is what counts) and opt+falloff (not that much of a difference though).
In Chaos atm they are better in DoT. All blaster got a decrease in falloff but if you could make it close to yer enemy covering another 2km shouldn't be a problem.
However fitting requirements still remain the same. Thus for an all out blaster loadout ions are still the way to go imho. One could even go for electrons after patch which are pretty close to ions and save more MW and CPU to run a shield extender or cap extender to counter MWD cuts.
Off topic: Hybrids are a complete category after patch... haven't really looked into all Lasers and Projs to know if it is the same there. But all Hybrid weapons will be usefull... which is the way Ship categories should be... Not BS BS BS BS BS vs BS BS BS BS BS BS.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
darth solo
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Posted - 2003.09.11 17:51:00 -
[21]
Do u realise, you have now given a pirate a better setup for killing us now:)
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:29:00 -
[22]
hell yea
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:36:00 -
[23]
My biggest problem with using a Thorax in a close range role is mobility. The Thorax has all the mobility of a grand piano. Short of fitting a MWD, you are little more than a target once you are within blaster range.
That's not to say that a close range setup should be completely dismissed, it's clearly a viable strategy, but mobility is, at the very least, an important consideration.
Fighting at long range has another advantage as well: Your drones will likely be out of range of your smart bombs when fighting missle spammers.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Aerin Osaa
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:05:00 -
[24]
people always mention how missiles will 0wn drones now, but i would like to point out that that is only the case if you are firing missiles at your self (assuming of course that drones are launched at the same time as missiles).
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:30:00 -
[25]
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using a thorax fitted with anode ion blasters at close range.
I would think that other similar cruisers (notably moas and ruptures) will be equipped with 250mm rails or other long range weapons. Normally they wouldn't be equipped with anything for close combat except perhaps a smartbomb. Moreover, a close-range fitted thorax could actually stand up to a battleship for more than a few seconds if it gets within 5km.
Also, I like the idea of sitting in the middle of a pirate spawn with 2 wards and a booster and chain killing 50k pirates. I was able to do it at 10km with my 3x 250mm gauss and 2x 150mm gauss setup...probably way faster and easier with higher-damage blasters.
Thanks for the input folks :)
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:31:00 -
[26]
If you make PVP you will need of cource a MWD with a closerange thorax, but against NPCs? That's easy, just pick tarhets which have a closerange, too. Which are most NPCs.
free speech not allowed here |
QBall
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Posted - 2003.09.11 23:19:00 -
[27]
For npc hunting you can beat a thorax 5 anod ion, and a ton of damage mods + heavy drones. A moa can't even come close to it.
--------
"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.09.12 07:21:00 -
[28]
Agility is getting some attention, Scorp.
Read the latest sticky by TomB. Also orbiting will now work much much better with emphasis on maintaining orbit at max possible speed allowed by agility.
Don't know if Evasive manuevering and Spaceship command give proper bonuses yet.
And there are always Nanofibers to help you with agility.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Zakalwe
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Posted - 2003.09.12 13:16:00 -
[29]
Quote:
To start I will admit that after the tragic loss of both my scorpion and my raven, I have spent a considerable amount of time tooling around in a thorax.
I think this ship is a piece of trash. On paper it looks fairly decent, but in practice it gets wtfpwned by the rupture and moa (never met a maller).
a) Gimpy CPU & Grid
This is the one overriding problem with this ship. Without massive training upgrades, you are hard pressed to fit anything worthwhile because of its totally lame CPU and powergrid. Without upgrading the grid using loads of power diags or core boosters, you can't fit more than two 250mm rails (and fit three more smaller turrets or two turrets and a smartbomb). The CPU hardly allows you to fill your low slots with damage mods while at the same time using shield hardeners or god forbit a MWD.
b) Gimpy Shields
It is plain fact that shields are superior to armor in terms of defense. The thorax has crap shields and thus cannot compete toe to toe with a moa in terms of tanking. Moreover, 1 less high and mid slot surely cannot be compensated by extra drone space?
Yes, I know a thorax's strength lies in its drones. But a couple of well-placed smartbomb pulses will ruin any drone user's day. Essentially, the thorax, despite its 5 turrets, can offer a weak loadout supplemented by low slot modules that only serve to boost the grid and CPU. Its natural defense (shield capacity) is very weak, and the 3 mid slots totally prevent the pilot from compensating for this weakness.
In short, thorax gets wtfpwned by moas and ruptures.
PS.. with the missile changes these issues are compounded even more as it will be both easier to kill the drones and smash the ship up.
Heard that you were podding by a Thorax, right ?
Hmmm...
Dan Simmons Hyperion and Iain.M.Banks Culture Novels : for SF Connoisseurs only |
Porno
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Posted - 2003.09.15 16:11:00 -
[30]
Can I just clarify something here? The close range weps you're talking about are:
Heavy Anode Ion Blasters
right?
Where do I get these from? Are these available on the "open" market, or are they some kind of NPC loot?
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.15 16:20:00 -
[31]
NPC loot, serpentis cruiser - 30k and 40k - drop them. While rare they are a lot more common that 250 gauss, for example.
free speech not allowed here |
Porno
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Posted - 2003.09.15 16:21:00 -
[32]
How much would I expect to pay for them?
It is the heavies we're talking about, yes?
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.15 17:57:00 -
[33]
The heavies are medium guns, just in case you confuse things (light - small; cannons - large).
1-2 mil I would assume.
free speech not allowed here |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.09.15 18:36:00 -
[34]
Quote:
NPC loot, serpentis cruiser - 30k and 40k - drop them. While rare they are a lot more common that 250 gauss, for example.
Correction 20-30k Serps drop electrons. 40k ions and 50k neutrons.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Adam Sudbury
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Posted - 2003.09.15 18:42:00 -
[35]
Anyone know which serpentis pirates drop the 27% expanders? I know this is a bit off-topic lol
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Lartfor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:02:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Anyone know which serpentis pirates drop the 27% expanders? I know this is a bit off-topic lol
I found 2 from 30k ones, probably more common from the 40-50k ones though.
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Lartfor
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Posted - 2003.09.26 20:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Lartfor on 26/09/2003 20:50:59
My set up is 4x 250mm protos, 1x dual 150mm proto, for high slots (lots of long range fire power right there).
For meds i got an AB, CL5 Shield booster, and a 10% cap recharger, for low i have 2x 10% pwr grid booster 1x mixed pwrgrid/shiel/cap booster, and then i have 2 gaust field balancer 1's (2nd best hyrbid mod)
All in all this ship does some seriouse dmg at long range, and if the time calls for it i get 8 ogres ready to fly. I hit for around 100 dmg a hit every 3.6 seconds out to around 35k. Can drain cap pretty fast but most are long long dead by that time.
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Vegeta
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Posted - 2003.09.26 20:56:00 -
[38]
Did u think maybe its u that sux not the ship :)
2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
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