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An Open Letter to the Wormhole Community

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Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters 706	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:18:00 - [91] - Quote Promise not to hug the station if he tries to make you? No trolling please
Xtrah Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 145	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:50:00 - [92] - Quote Bane Nucleus wrote: Promise not to hug the station if he tries to make you? It's not that bad, but he would definitely hug the high sec wormhole ... Be nice to your Logistics pilots, it is the only ship class that can kill you by looking at your ship and do nothing... http://www.youtube.com/NoHolesBarredEVE
Dmitry Wizard THE AESIR. Ragnarok. 156	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:59:00 - [93] - Quote Xtrah wrote: Bane Nucleus wrote: Promise not to hug the station if he tries to make you? It's not that bad, but he would definitely hug the high sec wormhole ... #shotsfired "Wormhole corps are like a bunch of homeschooled kids"
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 695	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:40:00 - [94] - Quote HerrBert wrote: Jack Miton wrote: please stop posting about NS in the WH forums. ktnx. make me Oh look... conflict driver. Wormhole Minister of High Society @autoritare \| The Diogenes Club
Jack Miton Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables 2908	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:47:00 - [95] - Quote Proclus Diadochu wrote: HerrBert wrote: Jack Miton wrote: please stop posting about NS in the WH forums. ktnx. make me Oh look... conflict driver. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Nash MacAllister Anomalous Existence Surely You're Joking 100	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:53:00 - [96] - Quote Sith1s Spectre wrote: However, when it started becoming an issue where we'd put a fleet out and put the static crit or close to we realised it was time to move. You only have to look at groups such as n0mex or SUSU who have had quite a bit of success with the lower class holes. Some good and interesting points being made. If people aren't happy or satisfied doing what they are doing, try something different. I have said this before and it seems pertinent in this discussion. It isn't the size of the group that determines what a fight looks like, it is the structure and attitude. N0MEX and previously KAIRS/CLANN have been very successful in C2 space over the years. We stay because it suits us, and we never felt the need to move on to higher class wh. There is still much small gang PVP to be had. And although we did recently join SYJ, it was not to become the biggest guy on the block, it was for content, pure and simple. I am now able to better offer different and structured content to my members in areas of the game they may not have played before. Be it C5/C6 PVP or PVE, NS, LS, or whatever. But we as a corp chose to retain our identity, and carry on what I believe to be a successful run as a low class wh resident, and small gang PVP corp. We do not regularly call on Alliance for normal hunting, but it is fun to fly with a bigger group as opportunities arise. The bottom line is that the situation is fun, and people enjoy what they have available. Choices folks, make your own, to facilitate getting what you want of the game. *The enemy of my enemy is... -ájust another guy that needs killin'*
Xar Pahineh The Suicide Express 12	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:17:00 - [97] - Quote I have to say I like most of this thread, and have read every single post just now. I want to say this up front, if you do check my killboard, it sucks... I was a total carebear until I joined w space a year or so ago and PvP never really comes to me easily as I game way to late pacific time. I do wish I'd get more kills in w-space then null, (or losses), but that's what it's like living in w-space, and I accept that. We (Suicide) have rolled into other wormholes, shown #'s, and used diplo channels to discuss a fight. We've also surprised the hell out of people and done a "blop" - however our blops are not 30 man t3 fleets with tons of logi, we'll blop with 3 or 4 logi at most, and most often it's with 2. Rail, I liked your intro post and I commend you for trying to create somewhat of an honor system with other wormhole corps. That will work for some, and like has been said in this very thread, others will just end up blopping the 2 drakes running sites... that's part of the game. I know the c5/c6 site runners make enough isk to field more ships, and if you don't you're doing it wrong. I've bought ships only to lose them within the hour, I still have a few legions laying around that I've had for over 6 months (and they've seen combat!). We all know what corps are known to do and when we see them in our hole or we roll into them we know what to expect. I don't ask anybody to change their style, but don't be surprised if we do pop into your public (or anybody elses) one day and say we'd like to fight, you game? we've done this on occasion and it's been fun, we've also been on the receiving end of that request and brought the fight when we had #'s. The great thing about w-space is the randomness of it, one day your static is empty, the next day it's a well known corp... I love w-space and can't imagine playing the game not in w-space, and although I hear the screams for more content and changes, what I really think w-space needs is more corps occupying it. Recruitment Officer for The Suicide Express [PROZC] Public Channel:-á Public Suicide
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters 713	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:16:00 - [98] - Quote +1 for Suicide Express No trolling please
Duke Wendo Probe Patrol Polarized. 0	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:16:00 - [99] - Quote So much rubbish being thrown around- I thought I'd add mine. Wormhole space, like low and null is lawless... there's no rules of combat except to win. You don't like blobs? Tough. You don't like being ganked while running a site? Tough. HTFU or GTFO. I'm one of those people who think there isn't enough to fight over, hate the pointless arranged fights- see no reason why I would want to fight for no reason other than we share a connection. I'm also not interested in ganking badly fit ships running sites- I used to do that kind of stuff when I was new. If there was some reason to fight- for example I could cause some damage to your stuff or steal it or something where I would gain something for attacking you- I'd be happy. Right now the only thing I get from a fight (apart from enjoyment if I overcome a challenge) is I get to loot the field and that really is poor. I could take it or leave it. I want consequences. I want something great to fight for. Something that makes me feel like I've earned something after overcoming odds stacked against me. Where is my prize for winning? What is there in W-space to fight over? Unless there is bad blood between people in alliances, there really is little point. There are so many w-space systems, there really is plenty for everyone. I get the whole sandbox thing and the 'make your own goals' angle and w-space is the best space, but it's still pretty bland. PLSE GIF MOAR CONTENT!
Apollo Eros Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy 74	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:33:00 - [100] - Quote I would like to add my two cents. One of the EVE commercials that brought a lot of us into this BOB Forsaken game was "The Butterfly Effect" This video demonstrated that the smallest entity can blob up fast. The name gets out next thing you know there are 100 men and boom. You are now a blob. The things we (and others) enjoy practicing is bringing out smaller groups. Looking for the gud fight. But what happens when you have 15 guys online and one finds a gank, target, or a gang, the blob will come. There are always those that want to ***. There are two sides to this. One the corp did their job. They created content to the extent that others wanted to join. You can do things like I know many do and put caps on corps etc. To try and keep the small to medium gang pvp going. But hey most of us are guys. If the fight gets kicked off everyone and their mom will come and try to *** on this delicious cheese cake. But Wormhole space is unique and provides a very easy way to counter the blob. You can mass you hole only allowing certain amounts of ships to bring in. There have been numerous occasions where we have closed the connection behind us in a hostile system just for the gud fights. Fighting in a wormhole is like going into a knife fight blindfolded. Credible intel is a must, because you are really going in blind and do not know what the other side has. Even if you have been scouting for hours there is always a chance for the unknown variable. [LVL 5 Space Wizard & DAK DICTATOR]

Jack Miton Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables 2917	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:26:00 - [101] - Quote Duke Wendo wrote: What is there in W-space to fight over? Unless there is bad blood between people in alliances, there really is little point. There are so many w-space systems, there really is plenty for everyone. out of interest, do you feel there are things to fight over in kspace? if so, what are they? Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Bronya Boga Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables 278	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:19:00 - [102] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Duke Wendo wrote: What is there in W-space to fight over? Unless there is bad blood between people in alliances, there really is little point. There are so many w-space systems, there really is plenty for everyone. out of interest, do you feel there are things to fight over in kspace? if so, what are they? Moons, jump bridges, ratting space, industrial systems, stations, thats just off the top of my head. There are a lot of things kspacers fight over. My Opinions are my own and do not reflect my corp Host of Down The Pipe-á www.downthepipe-wh.com Ingame Channel DTP Podcast
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 720	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:52:00 - [103] - Quote Bronya Boga wrote: Jack Miton wrote: Duke Wendo wrote: What is there in W-space to fight over? Unless there is bad blood between people in alliances, there really is little point. There are so many w-space systems, there really is plenty for everyone. out of interest, do you feel there are things to fight over in kspace? if so, what are they? Moons, jump bridges, ratting space, industrial systems, stations, thats just off the top of my head. There are a lot of things kspacers fight over. The difference in null is the opportunity for expansion of empires. Null is not a great comparison, since it is a different dynamic of gameplay. These objects listed are targets for invasions and empire building. We would need fundamental and core changes to our gameplay to mimic the targets and expansion style of null, which I frankly don't want in wormholes. I feel we do have conflict drivers, and if we don't like someone, merc out, or just decide to invade, we can invade someone, and they don't fight, they'll lose their home, same as null. In null, the victors either expand or save their home. In wormhole, rarely do we expand into conquered territory, so the gameplay is a tad one-sided. Adding anything you mentioned though simply adds perks for an expansionist style set of game mechanics. Wormhole Minister of High Society @autoritare \| The Diogenes Club
bubble trout Sky Fighters 175	Posted - 2014.01.14 05:08:00 - [104] - Quote Exactly, if you are looking for real in game hard coded consequences go to sov null or even fw low. If you are looking for more abstract social consequences, like damn now everyone wants to kick over MY sandcastle, w-space is the place to be. I enjoy the way wormholes work. I enjoy having a totally new chain every day, with random incoming connections to explore and hunt and avoid being hunted in. I like the unknowns, how many do they have, how many do they have cloaked, what ships are they in, where are they, how do I get them to fight. I enjoy having a null and teaming up with other wh groups to kill some random cva bros. I enjoy the human element, of that new bro who warps to a site in his trusty draek just to see it vanish into debris right before I decloak to kill him, or that dude who is so paranoid he logs off the second he see probes. I may be annoyed at the time, frustrated even, but it is a story to tell. It is possible for ccp to change w-space, to add things to it and still keep it the way it is. I just really, really doubt they will be able to manage it without fisking up the parts I love.
Jack Miton Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables 2917	Posted - 2014.01.14 05:46:00 - [105] - Quote Bronya Boga wrote: Jack Miton wrote: Duke Wendo wrote: What is there in W-space to fight over? Unless there is bad blood between people in alliances, there really is little point. There are so many w-space systems, there really is plenty for everyone. out of interest, do you feel there are things to fight over in kspace? if so, what are they? Moons, jump bridges, ratting space, industrial systems, stations, thats just off the top of my head. There are a lot of things kspacers fight over. well sure, i know these are all things kspacers seek to achieve but does anyone really like grinding sov in NS? i dont remember ever hearing from a nullseccer (or otherwise) that they enjoy shooting structures for months at a time to expand their space. in fact, ive heard the opposite a LOT. what i hear from kspacers is that they like killing ships, they like disrupting people's plans, they hate group X so the love shooting them ect. i think you'll find that what nullseccers actually do enjoy is the actual fighting, no matter what the goals are. in WH space we just cut the BS and just go after the fighting with no need for an arbitrary reason to fight. shrug at least that's what I do and I know many who do the same. in the end, isnt more space in NS is just a means to get more isk so that you can fund PVP? well, in WH space isk isnt an issue so we dont need to grind other people's crap to get it. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Rek Seven Probe Patrol Polarized. 1288	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:16:00 - [106] - Quote I know this thread isn't intended to discuss wormhole conflict drivers but here's an example that wouldn't involve the possibility of CCP messing the existing mechanics up. C7 Wormholes * Only accessible through C6 wormholes * Create an incentive for people to move to C6 space * Creates a reason for people to fight over wormhole systems * Introduces new content and gameplay to wormhole space It's just an example of something CCP could do that doesn't doesn't cause people to instantly spit their dummy out whenever they hear the term, conflict driver... So maybe we can all get over ourselves now and start to discuss things like rational grown ups now? ... No?! +1
Winthorp Sky Fighters 591	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:22:00 - [107] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: I know this thread isn't intended to discuss wormhole conflict drivers but here's an example that wouldn't involve the possibility of CCP messing the existing mechanics up. C7 Wormholes * Only accessible through C6 wormholes * Create an incentive for people to move to C6 space * Creates a reason for people to fight over wormhole systems * Introduces new content and gameplay to wormhole space It's just an example of something CCP could do that doesn't doesn't cause people to instantly spit their dummy out whenever they hear the term, conflict driver... So maybe we can all get over ourselves now and start to discuss things like rational grown ups now? ... No?! Where to start with this one.... C6 space is only bad because there is so few of them and all you circlejerks do is continually roll into each other and evict the bads. Your damn C6 barren wasteland isn't going to be fixed while you can do C6 insertion so predictably. -1 But click like so i can beat Banes likes.-á
Jack Miton Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables 2918	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:26:00 - [108] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: I know this thread isn't intended to discuss wormhole conflict drivers but here's an example that wouldn't involve the possibility of CCP messing the existing mechanics up. C7 Wormholes * Only accessible through C6 wormholes * Create an incentive for people to move to C6 space * Creates a reason for people to fight over wormhole systems * Introduces new content and gameplay to wormhole space It's just an example of something CCP could do that doesn't doesn't cause people to instantly spit their dummy out whenever they hear the term, conflict driver... So maybe we can all get over ourselves now and start to discuss things like rational grown ups now? ... No?! isnt there an elaborately named section of the forums where people can post new features and ideas? Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Freddie Merrcury Dysfunctional Gunbunniez Collision. 25	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:52:00 - [109] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Rek Seven wrote: I know this thread isn't intended to discuss wormhole conflict drivers but here's an example that wouldn't involve the possibility of CCP messing the existing mechanics up. C7 Wormholes * Only accessible through C6 wormholes * Create an incentive for people to move to C6 space * Creates a reason for people to fight over wormhole systems * Introduces new content and gameplay to wormhole space It's just an example of something CCP could do that doesn't doesn't cause people to instantly spit their dummy out whenever they hear the term, conflict driver... So maybe we can all get over ourselves now and start to discuss things like rational grown ups now? ... No?! isnt there an elaborately named section of the forums where people can post new features and ideas? try to stay on topic. As much as I enjoy snarky responses, the whole thing he posted at least raises a valid question. What do we do about large bloated WH alliances Large wormhole alliances are becoming more problematic because they are becoming more resilient. Used to be a 300+ man alliance would kill itself off in 6 months to a year because of drama, generally breaking up into smaller stable and far more enjoyable to fight against enemies. As far as killing WH alliances go, there are only 2 fairly reliable things: internal drama, and total eviction. One of these is fairly difficult to do from an external perspective, the other is fairly unappealing unless you really have a bone to pick with someone. The complete aversion to bringing the ultimate retribution upon a wormhole entity is one of the major factors in the lack of constant conflict that some say is afflicting wormhole space currently. Really, there would be much less of a stick up as far as "conflict generation" if you could evict someone fairly easily. Hell, every eviction is guaranteed at least two fights. Evictions would be grand fun if you didn't have to consume a cauldron of mud flavored porridge that is the completely unnecessary tens of millons of HP that compromise the standard POS. What all this incoherent rambling comes back to in the end is: structure grinding sucks, fix it CCP. I been kicked out of better homes than this.
Rek Seven Probe Patrol Polarized. 1288	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:13:00 - [110] - Quote Just look at what is happening in wormhole space now... We have Chitsa creating a coalition to go and shoot stuff in Null sec and the Red coats (i think it's them) actively removing corps from C6 space, who don't play the way they want them to, and replacing them with their associates. Now i may be wrong, but i don't think more coalitions and friendly inter-corp/alliance relationships is the way to create a vibrant and consequential PVP atmosphere in W-space. ... Oh and Jack, shut up already! Nobody cares what you think. +1

bubble trout Sky Fighters 175	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:27:00 - [111] - Quote I care what jack thinks :<
Rek Seven Probe Patrol Polarized. 1288	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:29:00 - [112] - Quote +1
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 722	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:07:00 - [113] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: We have Chitsa creating a coalition to go and shoot stuff in Null sec You were literally on the last roam with us..? If Chitsa's fun roams are killing wormhole space, and you sincerely feel it is detrimental, why the f* are you joining his roams? Rek Seven wrote: Red coats (i think it's them) actively removing corps from C6 space, who don't play the way they want them to, and replacing them with their associates. lol, what? FYI - You say we are evicting people that don't play our way, and you come on the forums to advocate CCP change the game because people aren't playing the game your way. Who is at risk of being more damaging to the community? Wormhole Minister of High Society** @autoritare \| The Diogenes Club
Rek Seven Probe Patrol Polarized. 1288	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:18:00 - [114] - Quote Proclus Diadochu wrote: Rek Seven wrote: We have Chitsa creating a coalition to go and shoot stuff in Null sec You were literally on the last roam with us..? If Chitsa's fun roams are killing wormhole space, and you sincerely feel it is detrimental, why the f* are you joining his roams? Rek Seven wrote: Red coats (i think it's them) actively removing corps from C6 space, who don't play the way they want them to, and replacing them with their associates. lol, what? FYI - You say we are evicting people that don't play our way, and you come on the forums to advocate CCP change the game because people aren't playing the game your way. Who is at risk of being more damaging to the community? Sorry, i honestly meant to add this but forgot... What you guys are doing is fine and i wish you the best of luck and i hope both approaches (especially yours) improves wormhole space.** However, i believe that we would see better results if CCP did something like i described above. Would you not agree? I meant no offence and should have expressed my opinion better Proclus Diadochu. I wanted to see what Chitsas roam would be like and even though it is an admirable concept, i have no interest in taking part in anymore tidi battles. And if i'm honest, i don't see how going out into w-space does anything for W-space. +1
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 722	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:26:00 - [115] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: Sorry, i honestly meant to add this but forgot... What you guys are doing is fine and i wish you the best of luck and i hope both approaches (especially yours) improves wormhole space. However, i believe that we would see better results if CCP did something like i described above. Would you not agree? I feel that CCP has some great Devs and I think that if they made some of the changes I've seen proposed here, they could improve wormholes; but I'd hope that any changes didn't damage the community, which is a feeling I'd assume you share. So, I do agree that some changes could improve wormholes, but I don't feel that they are broken overall. The way we play the game, the current mechanics and such work fine for us. Really, I just want Alliance bookmarks something awful :) Wormhole Minister of High Society @autoritare \| The Diogenes Club
Rek Seven Probe Patrol Polarized. 1288	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:31:00 - [116] - Quote Yeah i do share the opinion that wormholes are mostly fine, i just feel they lack endgame content. Maybe your project will create that and if so, you may see us return to C6 space in the future +1
HerrBert V0LTA Triumvirate. 342	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:58:00 - [117] - Quote Class X Wormhole is / was a great idea... but please keep it to 1 without Moons, so you can play King of the Hill.... "So we'll forfill the contract, Concord gave us, when they sent us out to Wormholes to find and kill Sansha Kuvakei and his operation, so that the Miners in Highsec would be save again and the abductions of people to be geneticly altered stop. What will we find? Did Kuvakei re-awakend the sleepers? Is he controlling them? Or did they integrated him into their collective and use him?" DEATH TO KUVAKEI 2014 My mind does not reflect my corp ... it just shows you what they care about... The Pontiff of Wormholes http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism
Grim Dredtog End-of-Line 0	Posted - 2014.02.09 06:41:00 - [118] - Quote I don't really see an issue with the way power is projected at this level. Yeah, groups like ours might have to fight slightly outnumbered 6/10 times, but at the point, it's all about learning how to fight in that situation, about adapting to that situation. Living in a wormhole is all about adaptation, you adapt or you die. If the situation I mentioned above is one you find yourself in regularly, you better ******* adapt. Or you WILL die. As for the bitching about "no content" or "no fights" in wormhole space. Harden up princesses, you've made your bed, now lay in it. Regardless of how I feel about power projection, if you're going to build yourself a reputation of blobbing people with more logi than they can field in total (as an example), don't expect people to want to fight you regularly. Edit: dat necro tho.
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 867	Posted - 2014.02.10 16:14:00 - [119] - Quote Grim, I think this thread died because we completed this discussion. How nice of you to share your opinion which likely reiterates someone else's opinion from one of the earlier 5/6 pages. Nothing important happens in this sub anyhow, so necro away... Wormhole Minister of High Society Superior General \| Order of Rob Minor @autoritare \| The Diogenes Club
ARMED1 Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 31	Posted - 2014.02.13 08:41:00 - [120] - Quote Why did you spend all that time writing and open letter and whining about blobs in Wspace? Seriously you have wasted your time. Maintaining defense fleets and being able to project offensive power is as imperative for Wspace as it is in any other sector of EVE. With the lucrative nature of WHS and the assets that myself and many of the WH inhabitants keep in system, not projecting power is just stupid. Nuff said... As to blobs - ummmm hello? These are WH systems. I feel that the author of this thread may not understand that the very nature of WHS automatically limits blobs due to mass restrictions on the WHS themselves. If you don't want to fight blobs maybe you should learn how to hunt more effectively. WHS are perfect the way they are - thankfully they didn't completely ruin them with local chat! ARMED1



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