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do you consider this grief play?

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CrapHappens	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:19:00 - [1] According to ccp the following Question How does CCP define "grief tactics"? Answer A "grief player" or "griefer" is a player who devotes much of his time to making other players' lives miserable, in large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players without provocation. This should not be confused with a standard conflict which might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently and negatively interfering with the game experience for others may receive a formal warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account a war was declared supposedly on a corp that i know of for the reason was due to them supposedly having a larger standing with amarr compared to minmatar. I know the corp very well and to the point where i can honestly say that they are not a RP corp. They dont favour any corp in anyway, there just a group of friends trying to get along and have fun together, which has been stopped and tbh some of them are thinking of giving up the game now cos there not having fun anymore with how this war is going. for them to stop the war against that corp they want 500 freed slaves, the corp to change their corp logo on the forum / site so it has the amarr character at the back of the sig and a minmatar character infront of it. They also want them to renounce their support of amarr on the forum. for a non RP corp how can they support amarr? anyway from talking with one of the members from the RP corp who have forced the war on the other corp which im making this post about, they told me that they are only at war with this corp cos they want the post on the forum above anything else. They want that post so that they can have a war with other RP corps which at the same time drags this corp into it. this has been petitioned and their awaiting the outcome but i am curious what do you the public think. would you consider this grief play?
Samirol	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:27:00 - [2] no, it is not grief play...this is all IC as I see it, besides, they can make a new corp if needed Sig Contest
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:33:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/03/2006 01:33:22 Griefing does not mean making your lives miserable. It means something done with the primary purpose of making your lives miserable. Meaning, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its griefing. A corp warring you might be doing it for fun, loot, and ganks. Its unlikely they chose your corp specifically to make you miserable. You may be miserable, but they aren't warring you for that purpose. Stop taking EVE personally! [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
CrapHappens	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:40:00 - [4] humm ok so you think its right that they are being exstorted from? whats to stop that RP corp from following them if they do even consider changing to a new corp and just re-issuing the war challenge all over again till they get what they want? the way i see it RP corps shouldnt drag non RP corps into RP issues, they should keep it between themselves and those who actually do want to role play this game to another level. I dont think there was a need to force a war on a corp just to have them post on the forum something that would open them even more to chances of having more wars due to some RP'rs taking this game over the top.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:42:00 - [5] Originally by: CrapHappens humm ok so you think its right that they are being exstorted from? How is there anything about extortion thats against game rules? Its perfectly allowed. Originally by: CrapHappens whats to stop that RP corp from following them if they do even consider changing to a new corp and just re-issuing the war challenge all over again till they get what they want? You are to stop them. You can kill them until they don't think its worth it anymore. Originally by: CrapHappens the way i see it RP corps shouldnt drag non RP corps into RP issues, they should keep it between themselves and those who actually do want to role play this game to another level. I dont think there was a need to force a war on a corp just to have them post on the forum something that would open them even more to chances of having more wars due to some RP'rs taking this game over the top. Shouldn't != Can't [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:46:00 - [6] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/03/2006 01:46:42 Originally by: CrapHappens Originally by: Dark Shikari shouldn't != Can't what do you mean cant? it is what they are doing I said !=. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
CrapHappens	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari shouldn't != Can't what do you mean cant? it is what they are doing
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 20/03/2006 01:51:17 Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 20/03/2006 01:49:44 Originally by: Dark Shikari Meaning, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its griefing. A corp warring you might be doing it for fun, loot, and ganks. Its unlikely they chose your corp specifically to make you miserable. You may be miserable, but they aren't warring you for that purpose. Stop taking EVE personally! So you're admitting that CCP's definition can be used in an arbitrary manner and is semantically vague? If a person's fun is causing another person misery, and they know it's causing them misery, then technically they can be busted for griefing at any time. This clause is absurd and would be laughed out of any contract law case or criminal court if it was a penal statute.
The GoldenRatio	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:55:00 - [9] Edited by: The GoldenRatio on 20/03/2006 01:55:26 Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville So you're admitting that CCP's definition can be used in an arbitrary manner and is semantically vague? If a person's fun is causing another person misery, and they know it's causing them misery, then technically they can be busted for griefing at any time. This clause is absurd and would be laughed out of any contract law case or criminal court if it was a penal statute. You are wrong. For so many reasons. I could type a 3 page paper detailnig exactly how you are wrong and why, but you wouldent listen anyways. You are 100% wrong.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.20 01:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/03/2006 01:57:45 Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville Originally by: Dark Shikari Meaning, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its griefing. A corp warring you might be doing it for fun, loot, and ganks. Its unlikely they chose your corp specifically to make you miserable. You may be miserable, but they aren't warring you for that purpose. Stop taking EVE personally! So you're admitting that CCP's definition can be used in an arbitrary manner and is semantically vague? If a person's fun is causing another person misery, and they know it's causing them misery, then technically they can be busted for griefing at any time. This clause is absurd and would be laughed out of any contract law case or criminal court if it was a penal statute. No, you're not reading my post correctly. I said that griefing means that someone does something for the PRIMARY PURPOSE OF CAUSING GRIEF. Its exactly the other way around--you probably couldn't bust them for griefing ever. How could you prove that they were doing something with the intent of griefing? Read the post before you make stupid responses. As I've said a thousand times, just because it causes you misery doesn't mean its griefing. Its only griefing if they did it for the primary purpose of causing you misery. Usually, causing misery is just a side effect. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.

CrapHappens	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari I said !=. please type normally, dont use strange acronyms. you say primary the purpose of causing grief. whats to say they didnt pick the victims corp for that purpose? dont you think that forcing a corp to get into RP problems is an issue that should be addressed? to have that corp declare openly on the forum would only open them up to more wars which would intail more grief and missery spoiling there game even more thanks to the corp that started it all in the first place. from looking at it the only way i can see them actually playing and having fun again is to disbandon the corp and play as NPCS which to be honest i think none of them are in anyway interested in doing. i dunno maybe i think more of this then i should but what the heck there my friends and i hate seeing them have this trouble just because some RP'rs play this game to seriously
Pwny McPwnerson	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:06:00 - [12] Wardec'ing a corp is not griefing. Ever.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:08:00 - [13] Originally by: CrapHappens whats to stop that RP corp from following them if they do even consider changing to a new corp and just re-issuing the war challenge all over again till they get what they want? the way i see it RP corps shouldnt drag non RP corps into RP issues, they should keep it between themselves and those who actually do want to role play this game to another level. I dont think there was a need to force a war on a corp just to have them post on the forum something that would open them even more to chances of having more wars due to some RP'rs taking this game over the top. There is no such thing as a non-rp corp, caus as soon as you log in to this game, you are playing a character in a role playing game. This is also a multiplayer game, so you are interacting with other players, something that you agree on when you log into it. Sooo, just doing ur own thing all the time doesnt always work. If someone doesnt like you, and they are stronger, you die. Tough. Damn, why am I even explaining such obvious things.. ------ Originally by: Gariuys Breed Love for president. Originally by: Cipher Khadaffi nerf breed love!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:11:00 - [14] Originally by: CrapHappens Originally by: Dark Shikari I said !=. please type normally, dont use strange acronyms. Its not exactly strange, because everyone else understood what I said. To anyone smart enough to use a computer, it should be pretty standard. Originally by: CrapHappens you say primary the purpose of causing grief. whats to say they didnt pick the victims corp for that purpose? dont you think that forcing a corp to get into RP problems is an issue that should be addressed? to have that corp declare openly on the forum would only open them up to more wars which would intail more grief and missery spoiling there game even more thanks to the corp that started it all in the first place. You answered your own post. They didn't do it for grief, they did it for RP and kills. Originally by: CrapHappens from looking at it the only way i can see them actually playing and having fun again is to disbandon the corp and play as NPCS which to be honest i think none of them are in anyway interested in doing. i dunno maybe i think more of this then i should but what the heck there my friends and i hate seeing them have this trouble just because some RP'rs play this game to seriously Have you tried, uh, fighting back? Isn't it kind of obvious? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
seeyouauntie	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:12:00 - [15] Originally by: CrapHappens Originally by: Dark Shikari I said !=. please type normally, dont use strange acronyms. you say primary the purpose of causing grief. whats to say they didnt pick the victims corp for that purpose? dont you think that forcing a corp to get into RP problems is an issue that should be addressed? to have that corp declare openly on the forum would only open them up to more wars which would intail more grief and missery spoiling there game even more thanks to the corp that started it all in the first place. from looking at it the only way i can see them actually playing and having fun again is to disbandon the corp and play as NPCS which to be honest i think none of them are in anyway interested in doing. i dunno maybe i think more of this then i should but what the heck there my friends and i hate seeing them have this trouble just because some RP'rs play this game to seriously Who are you to say someone is playing the game too seriously? Declaring war on a corp is not griefing. It's part of the game. The declaring corp has their reasons for doing it. Your friends might not like it, but that's too bad. ---------------------------------- I <3 mining.
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:13:00 - [16] Why don't they just agree to the terms? A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 20/03/2006 02:16:18 Originally by: Breed Love There is no such thing as a non-rp corp, caus as soon as you log in to this game, you are playing a character in a role playing game. This is also a multiplayer game, so you are interacting with other players, something that you agree on when you log into it. Sooo, just doing ur own thing all the time doesnt always work. If someone doesnt like you, and they are stronger, you die. Tough. Damn, why am I even explaining such obvious things.. This man speaks the truth. Nothing makes me sadder than seeing corps whining about being part of a massively multiplayer single shard online game. Grow a backbone guys and learn to fight back! You aren't living in an ivory tower instanced fantasy world and if you can't exist in the live server environment you don't deserve to survive. _________________ Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction!
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:14:00 - [18] Edited by: Keta Min on 20/03/2006 02:14:23 Originally by: CrapHappens Originally by: Dark Shikari I said !=. please type normally, dont use strange acronyms. you say primary the purpose of causing grief. whats to say they didnt pick the victims corp for that purpose? dont you think that forcing a corp to get into RP problems is an issue that should be addressed? to have that corp declare openly on the forum would only open them up to more wars which would intail more grief and missery spoiling there game even more thanks to the corp that started it all in the first place. from looking at it the only way i can see them actually playing and having fun again is to disbandon the corp and play as NPCS which to be honest i think none of them are in anyway interested in doing. i dunno maybe i think more of this then i should but what the heck there my friends and i hate seeing them have this trouble just because some RP'rs play this game to seriously stop whining and welcome to a pvp game. the only thing being able to stop your enemies is you and your player skills / social skills. you are under the illusion that you should be able to play the game peacefuly with your mates just quietly doing missions or mining without people forcefully stopping that. wrong game sir. if you don't like it - do something about it, the GMs certainly wont. edit: oh yeah " != " is usually understood by all
CrapHappens	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:15:00 - [19] all i asked for was opinons not arrogant replies thanx for your opions those of you who have responded
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Keta Min stop whining and welcome to a pvp game. the only thing being able to stop your enemies is you and your player skills / social skills. you are under the illusion that you should be able to play the game peacefuly with your mates just quietly doing missions or mining without people forcefully stopping that. wrong game sir. if you don't like it - do something about it, the GMs certainly wont. QFT ------ Originally by: Gariuys Breed Love for president. Originally by: Cipher Khadaffi nerf breed love!

Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:19:00 - [21] Originally by: CrapHappens all i asked for was opinons not arrogant replies thanx for your opions those of you who have responded What you might see as arrogance we might see as a bit of frustration to see a new corp reaching for the "petition button" rather than enjoying the pvp experience that eve delivers. What you are experiencing is called "content" - it means you are important. It means people "real people!" care about you and your corp and what it does and what it doesn't. If you get crushed like bugs you'll learn something in the process, if you survive the experience you'll grow stronger. But (with my roleplay hat on) I have to say the corp in question deserves a great big kicking for being amarr sympathising scumbags. _________________ Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:27:00 - [22] Originally by: CrapHappens all i asked for was opinons not arrogant replies thanx for your opions those of you who have responded Your posts seem more arrogant than the replies you're complaining about [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:31:00 - [23] Simple way to fix this entire problem. Join a Corp allied with the Caldari State. http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Dark Shikari Read the post before you make stupid responses. My post was purely oriented towards the clause itself, I didn't make any condemnation of your character. Relax, chill out, I know you and snappy responses are quite unbecoming of your forum sage persona. Quote: As I've said a thousand times, just because it causes you misery doesn't mean its griefing. Its only griefing if they did it for the primary purpose of causing you misery. Usually, causing misery is just a side effect. You can't prove the other party was acting maliciously. It's a case of he-said she-said. Hence you'd have to resort to your own judgement and consequently the clause can only be used in an arbitrary manner.
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:47:00 - [25] Originally by: CrapHappens would you consider this grief play? No Wait .... You killed more roids than my corp ... You have better standings with the Caldari state ... You didn't kill as many Amarr as we did ... WTF ? You have positive standings with CONCORD ... Your corp outbid us on the Carbonized Lead S market ... You undercut us by 5 ISK on the price of Vigil/Punisher/Heron/Atron/s ... ... WAR DEC !!!!! Anything and everything you do in EVE can be used as the basis for a war dec. Grow, learn, kill and survive .... or die in EVE ... -- Mini Skill Planner
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:51:00 - [26] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 20/03/2006 02:53:31 Originally by: CrapHappens the way i see it RP corps shouldnt drag non RP corps into RP issues So, then, should non-RP corps refrain from dragging RP corps into non-RP matters (f.ex. territorial fights in 0.0)? Originally by: Breed Love There is no such thing as a non-rp corp, caus as soon as you log in to this game, you are playing a character in a role playing game. With that character name I think I can come up with a good reward for those excellent words. Anyways though, fact of the matter is that if the corp in question -has- been aiding the Amarr a lot through running missions for them, it's perfectly sane a scenario for anti-Amarr people to take offense and strike at the pawns of the enemy, so to speak. See, it's an RPG. Those characters of theirs has been helping the enemies of the corp doing the wardeccing. They're reaping the rewards. I find such non-scripted, personalized, storylines quite beautiful to have in an MMO. It's a huge chunk of what makes EVE so beautiful. edit for an underscoring: "for a non RP corp how can they support amarr?" Did they have positive standings to the Amarr after running missions or whatever? Yes? There you go then, answered yourself in your first post. ;) ----------- Feel the ♥
Valkazm	Posted - 2006.03.20 02:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Samirol no, it is not grief play...this is all IC as I see it, besides, they can make a new corp if needed how is changing an internet site logo IC give me a break .. thats beyond IC
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.03.20 03:22:00 - [28] "do you consider this grief play?" No, I don't. I don't even understand the term "grief play" to be frank. EVE is a MMO based on PvP, if someone wants to hold a grudge then I see no problem with that. Also, The section of the TOS (or whatever.) that the OP quoted seems very vague to me. Makes me wonder if anyone has ever been banned on the grounds of griefing (as opposed to harrasment, which is a different thing altogether.)
betazero	Posted - 2006.03.20 03:24:00 - [29] pay some mercs or ask on the forum for people willing to risk there ships in a bid to aid whoever the corp is. i bet more than a few people dont like how some corperations pick on people they know are weak for empire wars.
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2006.03.20 05:03:00 - [30] Originally by: betazero pay some mercs or ask on the forum for people willing to risk there ships in a bid to aid whoever the corp is. i bet more than a few people dont like how some corperations pick on people they know are weak for empire wars. They should just talk to PIE, CVA, AM, 1PG and all the others. Find it quite likely that all of those are already at war with the would-be griefer. ----------- Feel the ♥



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