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Chat log modification

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Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 505	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:29:00 - [1] - Quote I am just curious if there is a way to modify a chat log. I have an idea to create a Miner Insurance Corporation where miners can pay the corporation a monthly premium and if they lose their ship, the corporation will reimburse them for the ship they have insured. To qualify for reimbursement the killmail would reflect that they were tanking their ship but they would also be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill. I just don't want people modifying chat logs to reflect their presence when they weren't actually there. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Ramona McCandless Epic Boo Bees 2203	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:35:00 - [2] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: I am just curious if there is a way to modify a chat log. I have an idea to create a Miner Insurance Corporation where miners can pay the corporation a monthly premium and if they lose their ship, the corporation will reimburse them for the ship they have insured. To qualify for reimbursement the killmail would reflect that they were tanking their ship but they would also be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill. I just don't want people modifying chat logs to reflect their presence when they weren't actually there. Hmm as far as I know its far easier to modify chat logs than KMs. Chat logs are stored as text files. Im trying to think of a good suggestion. KMs are ok, I know that the New Order accepts them for lost catalyst and stabber compensation claims when theres been a positive result on a gank, if thats any help. * Vote MTU For CSM * "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi
Shirley Serious Gutter Press 73	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:37:00 - [3] - Quote chat logs are stored in plain txt files under "\Documents\EVE\logs\Chatlogs". trivial to edit and upload them to pastebin or wherever, to claim things. You'd need multiple independent sources of the chatlogs, to find any anomalies.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 505	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:45:00 - [4] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Kimmi Chan wrote: I am just curious if there is a way to modify a chat log. I have an idea to create a Miner Insurance Corporation where miners can pay the corporation a monthly premium and if they lose their ship, the corporation will reimburse them for the ship they have insured. To qualify for reimbursement the killmail would reflect that they were tanking their ship but they would also be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill. I just don't want people modifying chat logs to reflect their presence when they weren't actually there. Hmm as far as I know its far easier to modify chat logs than KMs. Chat logs are stored as text files. Im trying to think of a good suggestion. KMs are ok, I know that the New Order accepts them for lost catalyst and stabber compensation claims when theres been a positive result on a gank, if thats any help. Yea I was fairly confident in the accuracy of KMs. Shirley "You can't be" Serious wrote: chat logs are stored in plain txt files under "\Documents\EVE\logs\Chatlogs". trivial to edit and upload them to pastebin or wherever, to claim things. You'd need multiple independent sources of the chatlogs, to find any anomalies. Maybe having a chat channel that is open all the time with myself or another "Claims Representative" monitoring it. Time stamp compared to the KM? "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Shirley Serious Gutter Press 73	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:54:00 - [5] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Maybe having a chat channel that is open all the time with myself or another "Claims Representative" monitoring it. Time stamp compared to the KM? that would work, but there are a couple technical issues: 1. 100% coverage of representatives, over the 23/7 of the EVE week. Difficult to guarantee someone is online all the time, due to things outside your control - Socket Closed errors, ISP problems, that sort of thing. 2. False claims - someone may accuse a particular representative of being untrustworthy, and submit doctored chatlogs. The representative only really has their chatlogs to support them. He-Said-She-Said and all that. These lessen when you have enough of a critical mass of people, but it's getting to that point that's the problem. Have to convince people of your honesty and integrity and all that first, so that they can trust you, and trust your systems&procedures.
Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 260	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:58:00 - [6] - Quote http://evelocal.com/
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 505	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:06:00 - [7] - Quote Shirley "You can't be" Serious wrote: that would work, but there are a couple technical issues: 1. 100% coverage of representatives, over the 23/7 of the EVE week. Difficult to guarantee someone is online all the time, due to things outside your control - Socket Closed errors, ISP problems, that sort of thing. 2. False claims - someone may accuse a particular representative of being untrustworthy, and submit doctored chatlogs. The representative only really has their chatlogs to support them. He-Said-She-Said and all that. These lessen when you have enough of a critical mass of people, but it's getting to that point that's the problem. Have to convince people of your honesty and integrity and all that first, so that they can trust you, and trust your systems&procedures. Thanks Ramona and Shirley. It's easy for me to sit here and think this is a decent idea and I appreciate you both for the insight. I think a lot of this can be managed by legalese in the policy. Insurance companies don't make money by just handing out free money. In the simplest terms, they profit from the rampant stupidity of others (not a dig at anyone just a fact). I think if the policy is written in a way that places absolute requirements for reimbursement there is a profit to be made. Those requirements being (at least for the time being): Fit a tank. (Verified by KM) Don't be AFK. (Verified by chat log - maybe a trusted 3rd party) Have standard insurance (this would classify more as GAP insurance) Don't mine while actively war-decced. I could also add that NPC corp characters do not qualify. Not just for profit but in the interest of emergent gameplay. Not totally sold on this idea yet but... And the policy would include some kind of absolute that all decisions by XXX Insurance are final etc. The real question I have to ask myself honestly is, if this is a good idea why has no one else done it yet? "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 505	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:21:00 - [8] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: http://evelocal.com/ Thank you Pix. I've not seen this before. And this can't be modified I am guessing? "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 261	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:36:00 - [9] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Pix Severus wrote: http://evelocal.com/ Thank you Pix. I've not seen this before. And this can't be modified I am guessing? I'm unsure about that, depends whether the chat is pulled from channel logs (if such a thing exists) or personal chat logs. You'd have to ask Chribba.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 2542	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:17:00 - [10] - Quote it'll just be pulled from personal chat logs. Chribba doesn't get access at a higher level than the rest of us. Just an alt, sitting in the channel. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Norm Tempesta The Konvergent League Sev3rance 49	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:48:00 - [11] - Quote Just use api verified Killmails............
Angelica Dreamstar Epic Boo Bees 144	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:02:00 - [12] - Quote Create a tax haven corp for them to join in? ... but ... Killmails can't be faked if linked ingame, so I'm wondering why you'd need a chatlog too? Just trying to understand, so I can help. :) Seeking fame and fortune? ;) No age limit! There's a tears bonus program ! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (chars of all age and sex, RP,PvP)
Angelica Dreamstar Epic Boo Bees 144	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:04:00 - [13] - Quote Chribba has bots in channels that save the content. You could ask him for one in a specific channel, but not for several locals I guess... Seeking fame and fortune? ;) No age limit! There's a tears bonus program ! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (chars of all age and sex, RP,PvP)
Ramona McCandless Epic Boo Bees 2204	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:09:00 - [14] - Quote I think that we could be good Insurance Investigators for you. We can specialise in prosecuting cases of Insurance Fraude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance_investigator * Vote MTU For CSM * "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 506	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:13:00 - [15] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Create a tax haven corp for them to join in? ... but ... Killmails can't be faked if linked ingame, so I'm wondering why you'd need a chatlog too? Just trying to understand, so I can help. :) Chatlog to prove not AFK. A valid claim would require the pilot to say, "Claim" or something else within seconds of being podded in a verifiable chat channel somewhere. Time stamp on the KM would be verified against the time stamp of the "Proof of presence" in the channel. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 506	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:15:00 - [16] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Just trying to understand, so I can help. :) Ramona McCandless wrote: I think that we could be good Insurance Investigators for you. I love you both. Seriously, I want to have your babies. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Ramona McCandless Epic Boo Bees 2205	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:18:00 - [17] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: I love you both. Seriously, I want to have your babies. I can bring you some, if you are hungry * Vote MTU For CSM * "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 2542	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:18:00 - [18] - Quote Demand an eve mail from them, within a certain timeframe? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Shaden Nightwalker Tryblium Sanguinis 3788	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:20:00 - [19] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Just trying to understand, so I can help. :) Ramona McCandless wrote: I think that we could be good Insurance Investigators for you. I love you both. Seriously, I want to have your babies. Just have them send you an eve-mail immediately after. Problem solved.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 507	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:25:00 - [20] - Quote Looks like I might be spending some time at work drafting a standard policy. Because I certainly don't do any work at work. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.

Ramona McCandless Epic Boo Bees 2212	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:30:00 - [21] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Looks like I might be spending some time at work drafting a standard policy. Because I certainly don't do any work at work. Will you be setting up a whole new corp? With a logo and uniforms and everything? * Vote MTU For CSM * "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi
Tydeth Gilitae Magewright Artificers 55	Posted - 2014.01.11 16:47:00 - [22] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill. Just note that if they're not afk, then during the time before the kill they will be trying to get their ship out, and for the first couple/few seconds after the ship blows (depending on latency during forced transfer from ship to pod) they'll be trying to get the pod out. Give them 5 seconds, as that gives them time to get the pod warping (or failing, but at least they could try) and get to the insurance channel to state the claim. 5 seconds is also consistent with the New Order, as James 315 gives his miners 5 seconds to answer his "Are You There?" question to prove they are not AFK. Kimmi Chan wrote: Fit a tank. (Verified by KM) Don't be AFK. (Verified by chat log - maybe a trusted 3rd party) Have standard insurance (this would classify more as GAP insurance) Don't mine while actively war-decced. 1. You will need to define what would minimally qualify as "a tank" for insurance qualification purposes, as there is a huge difference between slapping a random small shield module on a Covetor versus a full-mids shield tank on a Procurer/Skiff. This definition will also have to extend to all types of tank possible for any barge. A Retriever, unlike its T2 counterpart, only has 1 midslot and cannot properly shield tank, for example. It will need to rely on speed or armor tanking to survive. Note that all mining ships do have enough lows to allocate one to a Damage Control of any Tech/Meta variant, so you could make that a required module. 2. See the note about time above. Other than that, no issue there. 3. This makes sense, as being a supplementary insurance means they're not getting extra isk from the gank. Well, unless they figure out how you determine the worth of the payout, and if it's based on the hull price they could speculate the market to raise the price of barges so you pay out more. Then again, if they can manage to pull that off, GG. 4. They can dec-dodge, by dropping to NPC corp, jumping to another corp that's not currently wardecced, or close and remake their current corp to waste their enemies' 50+m isk for only 1-2m. Kimmi Chan wrote: I could also add that NPC corp characters do not qualify. Not just for profit but in the interest of emergent gameplay. Not totally sold on this idea yet but... That still leaves the other two methods listed in response to rule 4 to worry about. Those who would drop to NPC have fickle to nonexistant loyalties to player corps. There are a few kinks to work out, mostly details. The biggest thing is to simultaneously protect yourself from scams and fraud while also not appearing to be one. Clarity in the rules for claims will help with both, with all the details worked out properly. Vagueness leads to people either tryin to exploit it to scam you, or claim you are scamming them to break down your reputation.
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 556	Posted - 2014.01.11 20:40:00 - [23] - Quote surely they could just buy a mining permit, obey the code and be totally safe? here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 3524	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:26:00 - [24] - Quote Whats wrong with 2 simple rules: 1. Platinum insurance.... 2. Dont fly what you cant afford to lose. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 509	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:07:00 - [25] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: surely they could just buy a mining permit, obey the code and be totally safe? Having the necessary permits would certainly lower their premiums. It would certainly reflect on the individual miner that they have accounted for all their operational costs. A responsible miner is a great customer. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 509	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:12:00 - [26] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Whats wrong with 2 simple rules: 1. Platinum insurance.... 2. Dont fly what you cant afford to lose. 1. Platinum insurance does not pay the market value of the hull. That is the purpose of GAP insurance. 2. Of course, but why not be covered. No one ever truly plans on losing a hull. But in the event it does happen they can have piece of mind - because they were doing everything they were supposed to do, their friendly GAP insurance agent has their back. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has.


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