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Star Nove
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:11:00 -
[1]
I went into my buddies Raven the other day and decided to go kill some rats. It was ******* awesome!! I killed each of them with 5 volleys MAX and it was the easiest rat hunting I ever did, I was so happy. That is until I looked at my skills and realised... oh yeah... I've spent now 6 million in gunnery... but oh yeah..ehh.. only 6-700k in missile skills. Oh yeah and i got 2 in caldari bs. .... 5 ... in gallente bs....
WTF!?
Ok yeah we've all heard it we've all read it, Raven is powerful. It's the nr.1 fighting ship in the game, be it pvp or ratting. And ok It's ok, I mean Caldari are known for doing excactly that and nothing else: Fighting. So they made the best fighting ship... granted.
But there is seriously something wrong.. very very wrong .. when all anybody has to do is instead of all these very very long and big turret skills.. they gotta train 2-3 missile skills and jump into a raven!!
Let's take me for example: I've got controlled bursts, Large Railgun spec, Rapid firing, Surgical Strike, Trajecttory Analysis (and not to mention Small and Medium Railgun Spec) at 4. I've got Sharpshooter and Motion Prediction at 5, as well as the Small, Medium and Large hybrid(basic skills) at 5. That totalling for about 6million in Gunnery.
I've got Cruise missile at 4. I've got Missiles launcher Operation at 5. Thats It. Totalling for 600k in Missile skills.
With Eve Geeks calculator i'll do the math for you.
With my 25 in Perc and 22 in Will:
Small Hybrd+Sharpshooter+Motion Pred+Medium Hybrd+Large hybrd+ Trajectory Anal, Surgical, Controlled+Small railgun Spec+Med Railgun Spec+Large Railg spec. That as well as Gallente BS lvl 5.
Gunnery skills I just mentioned: 3d+7d+7d+11d+18d+3d+2d+1d+1d+3d+5d+30d=91 days.
Missiles: Lets say I take the time to do cruise missile spec lvl 4, like my railgun, and ok plus the odd enhancing missile skills.
Cruise missile 5 + Cruis missiles Spec 5 + Rapid Launch + Warhead upgrades + Target Navigation
18d+5d+1d+3d+1d. Thats 28 days.
I was doing a buttload of damage with cruis missiles already and I have none of the missile skills mentioned above except Basic Cruise missile at 4.
The only real difference I thought of when arguing the other day with my Raven flying friend was: I can shoot faster... ... yey...
-nove
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Gorgons
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:36:00 -
[2]
OMG!!! it's all so clear now
so why don't you show us your dps calculations for the "unfair" raven and your "overnerfed" gallente bs?
I mean I would really like to see, if you do the same dps with your 5 SP in missile operations compared with your gazillion SP in gunnery.
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OMG! what does it say... |
Sethoss
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:48:00 -
[3]
Yes, missiles are good to start quick, get fast good dmg power - but in the long run turrets will be more effective. There are not many missile skills to train (basically 7 skills + 2 for each missile type), for turrets there are much more, which means you got high startup-dmg with missiles but you can't increase it that much wherease for turrets there's a big potential of improvement. Turrets are slower to start but if you plan to play long you will have an advantage later. Same for skill-hardwiring implants (for sure something for the richer ones), much more of them for turrets then for missiles. Bah, i'm not goin to list here the other 1000 advantages of turrets, just want to say: look on the whole situation, don't pick one advantage of missile and whine you don't have it at turrets too...
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Yaro
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:05:00 -
[4]
Look at the DPS of a geddon vs cruise missile Raven...wich one is better at close range...
But Raven is the Best PVE ship...hassle free...fire and forget...
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Xanthous
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:06:00 -
[5]
lol @ gorg 
Something u havent talked about is damage type. What npc's were u fighting ? mega - thermal+kin but in a raven u can take your pick  and take it from a laser user the ability to use all 4 damage types is a good thing.
As for the raven yeah we all know its good for npc'in but missiles are burst damage not dps and maybe thats all u needed to overcome the tank of the npc 
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Slaveabuser
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:17:00 -
[6]
Just give us more gunnery skills
Killing the Minmatars since 22480 AD |
Amarria Lightwielder
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:27:00 -
[7]
raven rocks for npc'ing indeed. With my combat char I'm ultra-specced in amarr ships, and trying to take out guristas with lasers is just not fun.
The ability to change damage type is really nice, but putting a generally tanked raven vs a gankageddeon at short range should show some difference in firepower (hopefully)
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NAGA ShopÖ
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Star Nove
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:45:00 -
[8]
Ok I'll revise: Every ship has it's own purpose in battle, sure, a Dominix for example is a very good all around ship, and the Tempest is a good high damage hitter. The raven is a good battle ship - so is the scorp but **** at industry. Megathron is good at both.
I dont know the DPS for my megathron with 7 rails and then my friends Raven with the 6 cruise missile launchers, although I will check it later today when I get back on eve. In the meantime, I would still like to open the discussion (not the first time and not the last), about just why I can train for some 60 days less and still be very proficient with missiles, do massive ammounts of damage, even more damage then with megathron rails. I can then use those 60 days to train the shield tank.
I don't know excactly how good the T2 cruise missiles are but I hear they do alot of damage, easily and at any range within 100-120 km with a character with  Quote:
Missile bombardment!
Proficiency at long-range missile combat. 10% bonus to all missiles' maximum flight time.
Missile projection!
Skill at boosting missile bay propulsion systems and manipulating guided missiles' jet engines. 10% bonus to all missiles' maximum velocity.
Missiles have 6 skills to enchance all missiles, as well as each missile type specilazation (whic they only need the prev. skill at V, such as
Quote:
Cruise Missile Specilization:
Skill requirements
Missile Launcher Operation I
Missiles V
Gunnery has 8 skills to enhance all turrets as well as all the base turret skills and their specialization skills.
Sure we got 2 more gunnery skills now, (and we have to train most of them to be able to use our large t2 guns), but ccp already recently added more missile skills like Rapid launching and warhead upgrades and who's to say they wont add more.
We got missiles vs turrets and at the moment it readily looks like missile are winning big time. Whats not to love: Lotsolotso damage - Short trianing time - Everybody step up and get your missiles riiiight now, We'll guarantee you for a months training time youll be ganking pilots 6-10 million sp higher than you!
-nove
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Punktious
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:46:00 -
[9]
If you are so sad about the mega, why dont you just specialize in the raven, get over with it, wont take that long time, just as you prooved your self.
On the other side if you took the time to search the forums for analysis of the different bs's dps. You could end up with another look on your topic subject. Tons of threads have been posted since missile balances took place.
hint: www.eve-search.com
Why has all the threads here in "ships and modules" has to be so negative and "bohuu my ship is worse than all others".
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Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it. |
Zyper
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Punktious
Why has all the threads here in "ships and modules" has to be so negative and "bohuu my ship is worse than all others".
The grass is always greener on the other side :)
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Kinsy
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kinsy on 21/03/2006 12:08:28
You forgot that even with the skills albeit with standard missiles, a orbiting Zealot is going to explode your average npcing raven with either cruise or torps, Nos or not (you can evade it).
Face it, your gunnery skills are better suited for PVP.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:11:00 -
[12]
It not the missiles its the raven, I would add dominix to the same list. Doing full dmg while using EW and keeping your tank is what I would define as a solo-pwnmobile!
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kunming
It not the missiles its the raven, I would add dominix to the same list. Doing full dmg while using EW and keeping your tank is what I would define as a solo-pwnmobile!
So what is good for small gangs is good for large gangs?
/me looks at Dominix at 150km distance.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
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