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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
Zircon Dasher
320
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:The payout level of an ESS is reset if it is destroyed, scooped or when it is accessed and the system-wide pool is distributed.
Can't get on to test for the next few days. Is there a time limit on how long the ESS can be accessed without distributing the pool? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
320
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Sean Decker, former EA Executive, now with CPP, enter CCP headquarter: Emplyee: "Is that you or it is getting dumber in here?" Decker: " " Conclusion: since Decker/EA works with CCP, the total number of stupid ideas shoots through the clouds. Prediction: there will be no more rage quits, we will see more reason quits. if only players warned about that....oh wait..... sorry CCP, my wallet as a brain, and he says NO, 2 account remaining, 1 expire in 4 days, the last is runing till march - april i think, don't expect me to resub. wondering if i should since last year, the answer become more clear as deadline is coming up
Can I haz stuff? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
320
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Posted - 2014.01.17 01:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote: Or a blue enters and you have to dock/POS up, run out to it in an interceptor and press share, every single time (or risk that guy being that guy), thus wasting even more time.
So you and your corp already dock up when a blue enters system right? I mean.... you never know which blue is actually a safari alt..... Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
320
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Posted - 2014.01.17 01:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rarnak Ki wrote:
5% nerf aside, there is a potential to increase ratting income by 5% from current levels. This happens after ratting for an hour or more at not 95%, but 80% of normal income. To balance out, a ratter will need to rat for 5 hours just to break even. 1 hour at 80% and 4 hours at 105%. This means that not only will the ratter have to rat for five hours before a profit is made, but the ESS has to both survive and not be emptied out during that time.
Except that you get 100% of your current ISK the second it activates. 80% will be in your wallet and 20% in the EES. The 1% level ups are over and above that amount. According to SoniClover 'several' people ratting will max out the bonus in about 30min. Assuming 20min ticks that means about 2 ticks before you are at 105%. Assuming you get an extra 2mil/tick/character that means it should take about 1-1.5 hours to break even Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
322
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Posted - 2014.01.17 01:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Destruction resets the payout level but leaves the pool untouched Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
322
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rumor is that you can park on the structure. Meaning that scary bubble immune inty will have to burn something down before it can touch the bacon button. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
322
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote: Which means spending an account sitting on the structure, instead of either not paying for a second (or whatever) account, or having that account help the first account in making the ticks roll in quicker, thus earning more than if you deployed the structure and had to babysit it all the time.
Yup.
Given the efficiency caps on systems some people will find having that alt better employed shooting and whatnot. Other people can field more alts than the system really allows in which case that alt is best suited camping the structure. I am not sure what the problem is.
EDIT: additionally, since the alt takes no attention until the red/neut show up in system some people would rather slap the alt on the structure just because they do not want the effort of actively using it/ can give the off-grid booster something to do. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
322
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote: The problem is that the part where some of the bounty can be stolen by blue, neut or red (or even inadvertently by the guy using the structure hitting the wrong button) is a bullshit mechanic
Glad to see we have finally boiled the issue down to its core. I applaud your honesty.
Fix Sov wrote: which will not help in making the "small gang objective" initiative or "farms and fields" initiative reach its goal
Did you really expect a single addition to the game would make F&F "reach its goal"? Sounds like you want a Jesus Feature...
Fix Sov wrote: because overall it'll be a lot better to just not erect the ESS in soniclover's current form.
For you that may be perhaps true. For others it would be silly not to drop one.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
322
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Posted - 2014.01.17 03:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote: Notice how I said help reach its goal, and not actually would reach its goal?
Meh. That seems like a fair complaint so long as you don't think about it. The fact of the matter is that players do not know how this item works into a larger system of changes. In other words, to be blunt, the player base does not have a clue* about whether it helps or hinders F&F until a more complete picture has been shown to them.
* Assuming the merry band of players who have been briefed by the DEVs have not been breaking their NDA...... Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
326
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wyn Pharoh wrote: It will take 3 HOURS of uninterrupted ratting, according to the new mechanics, to reach break even with where we are at today.
That is false.
Assume current RatBounty = 100k
Without ESS: 95k goes into your wallet. TOTAL BOUNTY: 95k
Immediately upon ESS activating: 80k goes to wallet 20k goes into ESS TOTAL BOUNTY: 100k
Current rat bounty - Activated ESS bounty = 0 SO after the 60sec activation time you break even by comparison to the current system.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
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Zircon Dasher
326
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Exactly.
one of the things CCP doesn't understand is that a lot of alliances have the unwritten rule of "don't crap where you eat" ie don't engage in pvp in your pve grounds because that just encourages them to come back because they know they can get a fight.
If we defend the Farm today, attackers will come to the Farm more often. If attackers come to the Farm more often, we will have to spend an ever increasing amount of time defending the Farm. So, If we defend the Farm today, then we will have to spend an ever increasing amount of time defending the Farm.
Time spent defending the Farm is time we cannot spend generating ISK So, If we defend the Farm today, then we will generate an ever decreasing amount of ISK. We do not want to generate an ever decreasing amount of ISK So, We should not defend the Farm today.
Does that sum up the argument? Sounds like a Farm&Fields concept is doomed unless people don't have to defend the Farm. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
326
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeep wrote: No you don't. You have to factor in the cost of the deployable and the time spent flying to and from it to retrieve your bounty.
1) The post I responded to broke the recoup time out of the equation. I responded to the part of the post where the author said it takes 3hrs to get back to generating 100% of the current bounty. That is false.
2) Do you calculate your ISK/HR subtracting out the cost of your ship? No, you don't, because that cost is a sunk cost. Same for deployable cost.
3) Time spent to take the ISK out of the ESS can range from 0 to a couple min depending on how you chose to accomplish that task. Luckily, it does not particularly matter since you generated the ISK regardless of whether you collected the ISK.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
326
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: If CCP had not mentioned the 5% nerf to nullsec income in the same dev blog, this module would be a fairly solid success. The module design, while it has some flaws that CCP mentioned it is addressing, is a straight up boon to those that risk using it and successfully defend it. The majority of the hate here is because people can't distinguish between the 5% income nerf and the release of the new module.
This. If CCP only announced a nerf the ensuing threadnaught would have had people demanding some way to bypass the nerf via effort/risk.
CCP anticipated said threadnaught, provided a mechanism to bypass the nerf AND buff income via effort/risk, and people still complain.
I <3 EVE players. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
327
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wyn Pharoh wrote: I am ok with revising figures to account for the lost% going directly into the ESS, along with the held isk. Lets use a progression instead that begins with 1% added to the 20% withheld and move forward. It is better for the farmer not to have the ridiculous ramp up time. Now, lets pay for the upgrade...
Hour 1. Our pair of Ishtars raise 2.4mil isk to pay for upgrade. Hour 2. Our pair of Ishtars raise 5.6mil isk to pay for upgrade. Hour 3. Our pair of Ishtars raise 6.0Mil isk to pay for upgrade. ETC... ...requiring ONLY 5.66 uninterrupted hours to pay for the 'upgrade'. Reasonable people should hardly bank on 2 hours of undisturbed PVE life, so it will more likely take 7.66 hours to pay for the upgrade. A LOT of people will only get in an hour, those folks will lose 12.6 hours of their life to pay for 'upgrade'. As long as there are at least two folks working together. As long as it never gets killed of course. Failing to take into consideration cost in fuel and time to import from Empire as well.
All these things are better than my original projection that improperly accounted for withholding mechanics. Not that this is really good at all.
We cannot forget the risk factor here, of isk in holding. The cost of an entire ESS is being held for our two ratters over each hour that it is in place. Losing 1 hour of withheld isk to either friend or foe then sets you back 5.66 hours of gametime to get caught back up to where you would have been pre-ESS. If its blapped in process, oops, you and a friend have now lost 11 and 1/3 hours of your life over what would have been put in the pockets of the Rank and File, pre-ESS.
So your issue here is with the 30mil cost of the ESS?
Wyn Pharoh wrote:Ofc, one could babysit the monster with an alt. An alt that isn't being productive, losing 60mil/isk an hr to guard the 30mil isk 'investment' and and potential gains from this 'upgrade'. Its such a lose-lose scenario, I can't believe we've gotten this far without a sincere and honest apology from all of Team Super Friend.
As has already been stated, there is an efficiency cap on systems. If you have more characters than the cap allows (or do not want to spend the effort of actively using a character OR have an OGB), putting that character on the button makes sense. If you have not reached the cap, then it does not make sense. Some people will find it useful and others not. This is ok. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
327
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: at this point i feel very close to threatening to unsub my 17,000 accounts thus crippling Iceland's economy (and then where we import our sheep's head and fermented shark from?).
Dibs on stuff! Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
329
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Because to get any decent return on the ESS you basically have to leave it out for as long as you can, which just leaves it open for anyone to take away that isk faster than you can possibly respond.
Curious: Can you provide a quantitative ISK value and time-to-return that would be "decent"? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
329
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Posted - 2014.01.17 19:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Because to get any decent return on the ESS you basically have to leave it out for as long as you can, which just leaves it open for anyone to take away that isk faster than you can possibly respond. Curious: Can you provide a quantitative ISK value and time-to-return that would be "decent"? No, because I'm not here to balance a ******** idea. I'm here to shut it down.
So no ROI is acceptable. Got it.
I <3 irrational people Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
332
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Posted - 2014.01.17 21:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Oh, 300-400% (on top of the base rewards) should do it. A system that holds 3 ratters can then pay for the 9GÇô12 people required to protect the ESS.
Good. So when CCP finally addresses the problem of systems not supporting adequate population... for the sake of argument lets say they bump it to supporting a measly 6 ratters..... then the actual % increase necessary to make a decent return is 150%-200% of current value. That assumes, of course, that you have to use 9-12 people to protect an ESS.
Quote:Because that's what we have here: they're creating a problem so they can sell us a solution. You are suggesting that we alter the solution; everyone else is suggesting that we don't even create the problem.
Right. CCP obviously is nerfing ratting only because they want people to use the EES. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
343
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
This thread is reminding me more and more of the Sifl and Olly Show
For the life of me I cannot figure out why..... Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
346
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Muffet McStrudel wrote: alliances will ban their use..... Just another nullsec structure to grind really.
So your alliance is 1) nerfing your income and 2) mandating that you shoot structures that play no part in SOV?
And your mad at CCP. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
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Zircon Dasher
346
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Muffet McStrudel wrote: No CCP is nerfing the bounty. I don't recall alliances asking for this asinine structure, just less fleet lag.
I will shoot them because strategically there is nothing else to do with them. If one goes up and it remains unmolested it simply provides a target for enemies to warp to and encourages them to hang around my space and steal. And if I'm really lucky, maybe I'll get my ratting ship caught in the warp bubble while trying to collect my tags that I'll need to burn time lugging to empire, where maybe I'll get lucky twice and get podded along the way.
You really aren't thinking this through, are you? How about this - I'll trade you the ESS and go for it if small gang pvp gives up cloaking ships and hot drops. Hmmmmm, wonder what the odds of them doing that are?
CCP is also providing a mechanism to ignore the nerf. If your alliance does not allow you to ignore the nerf, then your alliance is actively nerfing your income.
So you will shoot them even though you don't have to, but complain about more structure grinds. Got it.
Why would you collect tags unless your 'stealing'(lol) them? If you are 'stealing' why would you use a ratting ship? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
347
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote:and it's raidable by everyone, including blues,
I get the distinct impression that Fix Sov needs different blues Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
347
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Give it up Gizznitt Malikite.
The major nullsec alliances have already said that the ESS in its current form will be Shoot On Sight.
The ESS is dead on arrival, and won't see any real use after the first month of people trying to use it as a griefing tool.
Are you going to kick corps who put them up? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
347
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Fix Sov wrote:and it's raidable by everyone, including blues, I get the distinct impression that Fix Sov needs different blues Must I remind you that this is actually EVE?
Does your alliance assplode your ratting boats, JFs, and POS too?
Hmm. Now that I think about it, can I join? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
348
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Fix Sov wrote:and it's raidable by everyone, including blues awoxers, I get the distinct impression that Fix Sov needs different blues air-tight security As I mentioned in the GD thread about the ESS; If it goes live as currently planned, and if it is used widely, I will; Get in an interceptor, warp to every ESS in non-friendly space, press the "take all" button, and go to the next system.
Wait. So are you going to awox or only do it to nuet/reds (or both)?
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
349
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: I'll just do it to neut/reds. Setting aside that none of my blues are going to use the thing, I wouldn't do it to blues because I would get kicked from GSF, and this game isn't worth playing if I'm not with my fellow Goons.
That was my point. If someone is going to awox, then they will awox. Doesn't much matter if its a 30mil deployable or a 30mil ship. Awoxing is always something that has to be dealt with, there are ways of dealing with it, and everyone accepts this. You can't consistently object to the module on the grounds of "but a blue can steal mah iskies" without also objecting to all new items because "but a blue can shoot mah 30mil [insert item]" Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
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