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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:59:00 -
[1]
First off. I know this is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% if not 1000% NEVER a chance of being made into the game. I do not personally even belive that it would be good for it to be. this is more of a theoretical question, not a game suggestion or anything like that.
now, with that in mind...
IF there were some ULTRA-high end complex or site or whatever, that would take signifigantly more than any current encounter would take... like several dreads and BS's or whatever. I don't have experience with capital ships or practicalitys of fleet combat or any of that to give any specific numbers on what sorta force I'm thinking here...
that sort of very signifigant force, (obviously signifigantly less with very good planning and all) to kill the whole thing.
with the head honcho big shot leader of the whole thing having a very high, or maybe even definite drop of something essentially as priceless as it gets. I'm talking like... some hardener thats better than the best officer loot, some theoretical BPO that would be insanely good for whoever had it... (I'm talking like... ultra-faction BS BPO/bpc or something here) think of your insanely out there "if it could normally be created it'd be horribly unbalancing" type thing.
the drawback? some of the NPC's in the thing, will podkill.
and not only that, but they would use ammo, or have some special feild or something that would prevent your clone from being activated properly. ... that is, for all intents, permadeath. ... and the NPC's could use things like interdictors, and capital ships, and warp bubbles, (including carriers, WITH use of fighters)
if such a thing were to exist. (in 0.0 of course... obviously adding to the whole affair PC's possibly attacking you as well)
if it were to exist. would you risk it with your primary character?
and would you be for its existence, or against it?
oh also say it only respawned once completed, every month or maybe 2, but if not completed it rebuilt itself within say a week if it were left alone.
again... I'm not saying I think it would be a good idea. this is NOT a feature request or anything like that. its a purely theoretical... alomost merely philosophical concept I'm curious peoples's views on.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Severe McCald
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:03:00 -
[2]
Not if it was permadeath. Loss of skillpoints (even quite serious loss) yes, but not back to the char creation level. It has been too long getting here.
On the other hand - for people thinking of suicide anyway (quitting the game) it would have an undeniable attraction.
Sev
I saw a squirrel today jumping from one tree to another, the branch it landed on snapped. So the squirrel was on this falling branch, clambering like mad, thinking it was doing something about it.'
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:09:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Severe McCald
Not if it was permadeath. Loss of skillpoints (even quite serious loss) yes, but not back to the char creation level. It has been too long getting here.
On the other hand - for people thinking of suicide anyway (quitting the game) it would have an undeniable attraction.
Sev
since I expect others will have a similar viewpoint... how signifigant would be TOO signifigant? a quarter? a third? half? Everything after Battleship level 4? (lol)
oh and I'm thinking the force would also have to be signifigant enough of advanced enough people that while SOME of the force might be able to be relatively quickly "farmed" alts purely for sacrifice in this fashion, you'd have to have at least a couple that were "authentic" characters too.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:10:00 -
[4]
I like the idea but pod killing may be a step to far, how ever if it is to be uber loot, then the respawn should be huge.
Thow with a mother ship there poding would not be that bad as you could just set your clone to the mother ship and be back int he battle.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:21:00 -
[5]
Would I risk 38mil skillpoints? Not for a 100 bil.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
I like the idea but pod killing may be a step to far, how ever if it is to be uber loot, then the respawn should be huge.
Thow with a mother ship there poding would not be that bad as you could just set your clone to the mother ship and be back int he battle.
ahh, but not only would it be podding, but it'd be podding that would keep you from being recovered (wasn't there once some lore or something about some horrible criminals that were using some special weapons that inhibited it from working? I mean doesn't EVERY game have something like that?)
Originally by: Gariuys
Would I risk 38mil skillpoints? Not for a 100 bil.
what if it was something worth a trillion? how insane of value would it have to be, for you to risk it?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gariuys
Would I risk 38mil skillpoints? Not for a 100 bil.
well. but there probably would be enough people out there to risk it
and later ***** about the loss because they:
- hadnt known
- had lag
- had a node crash
- accidentally tripped over network cable
- accidentally poured coke/beer/whatever in computer
- [insert creative excuse for getting reimbursed here]
i can allready see the first 2 pages on the forum  
----
Manfred Doomhammer
CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Izo Azlion
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:30:00 -
[8]
Thats scary. Could you imagine losing everything you had done, but say you got 10 billion isk for every person in your corp - You'd have the money, but no skills to do anything with it.
Podding with the chance of losing SP dispite having an up to date clone? nah. Podding? Sure, go for it.
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Thats scary. Could you imagine losing everything you had done, but say you got 10 billion isk for every person in your corp - You'd have the money, but no skills to do anything with it.
Podding with the chance of losing SP dispite having an up to date clone? nah. Podding? Sure, go for it.
and you CAN'T see this about to happen with titans? I must admit, it is something that has hit me recently. You can't insure titans... they "only" have like 80k of hull (which really isn't that much) and given a node death or something, bam, 65 million + 3 months + the PTFA of moving minerals around...
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Now run along and play with your dolls...
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Nestor II
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:55:00 -
[10]
Make the Complex be a scalable one. By scalable, i mean if you go in with a 50 ship fleet, it scales to your skill level. You have tacklers, they have them, you have an indy to loot cans, they have them too. It would add a cool dynamic to the game and make it more interesting.
For the big rat at the end everyone would get something from the can he drops, just you won't know till you get back to the station and open the package.
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Melkisadek
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:21:00 -
[11]
as a purely theoretical/philosophical problem then yes - i would risk it if the rewards were significant enough and i was in an established enough corp to know i would be looked after while re-skilling
however as a game device it wouldn't work due to the availabilty of characters with millions of skill points on the sell forum
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:30:00 -
[12]
Fleet Battle complex - very good idea
Pod kill idea - Ok
Perma death - will never be implemented, else eve will loose subscribers 
Selling: Absolution - Curse - Gleam S - BPC's - check my bio
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:30:00 -
[13]
Permadeath? No way its takem me two years to get here and although I would get here quicker because I would miss out some crappy skills better sttributes and train learning to advanced 4 first etc etc I still would not ever risk the lot.
CCP would have to have a system where you had to petition the GM to be allowed to enter a permadeath complex. You send a pettition saying "let me in" they send one back saying "please confirm you are aware permadeath is a risk you will NOT be reimbursed SP in the event of loss even if its down to the afore metioned ISP screw ups / power failiure / coke on PC etc."
All too much legal stuff etc etc.
Pod Kill and say 5% SP loss Yep I can accept that sort of loss for the right potential reward.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This sig space for sale. Need something advertised?
Reasonable Rates. |
Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:31:00 -
[14]
What's with all the people lately thinking permanent death is such a brilliant idea?
It's like parts of the community simultaneously gave themselves do-it-yourself lobotomies before posting about it.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.23 15:24:00 -
[15]
perma-death would be a terrible idea for CCP to implement.
PKing rats isn't a bad idea though. Perhaps rats should have % chance of PKing, depending on their level - It would certainly make hardcore mission running harder.
no skills, just luck.
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Rommi
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Posted - 2006.03.23 15:27:00 -
[16]
I think it could work, i have seen a lot on these forums about risk vs reward, and if they could get the balance right in one of these mega complexes then i think it could be fun (although waaay out of my league)
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast |
Kazhoth
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Posted - 2006.03.23 16:01:00 -
[17]
Mind you this sort of plex would only be in 0.0 space, owned by a corp so large it would make most people cry... only the largest corps would be able to have the ships to go into it or be willing to risk them.. they are the ones that get the BPO for something thats a one off.. yeah lets throw even more money at the people who already have it...
I Await the torching
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.23 16:05:00 -
[18]
no permadeath. EVER
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Constantine Arcanum
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Posted - 2006.03.23 16:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: HippoKing
no permadeath. EVER
QFT
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General Tzu
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Posted - 2006.03.23 17:25:00 -
[20]
sorry, but i don't agree. number one, if it were permadeath hardly anyone would take the risk and it would be semi-wasted development.
number two, and mos importantly, is the uber-loot reward. Eve already is amazing in that the loot doesn't necessarily dictate power. if you look at WoW or other MMOs as examples, they have "uber loot" drops that can give your character a significant advantage over those that don't have the same level of loot. this means that anyone NOT running these complexes falls way behind and the powerful start to dictate too much of how the gaming world operates.
i like the loot system the way it is now. lets not start giving people with more time to play, more resources to build fleets, etc. the ultimate advantage in pvp. its a great idea, in theory, but the end result would be a percentage of people that could wtfpwnbbq everyone that hasn't been through the complex and gotten the best loot or bought it off the market.
what happens when uberfleetcommander_01 gets uber mods, has 95% resists and can one-shot anyone not fully decked out in T2 mods? then what happens when he sells his account and some punk with a rich dad now sits at gates and griefs newbies out of the game because they were too lazy to earn their way to the top?
bad idea. REALLY bad idea. loot has destroyed so many MMOs already..
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.23 17:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kel Shek
Originally by: Gariuys
Would I risk 38mil skillpoints? Not for a 100 bil.
what if it was something worth a trillion? how insane of value would it have to be, for you to risk it?
"do the complex or the girl gets it" in RL. nothing in game tbh
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.23 22:46:00 -
[22]
I'm not saying permadeath would be good for EVE, or should be implemented. like I said... merely a philosophical point, compared within eve for context and relevancy.
honestly I'm intrigued by the answers, while I agree that permadeath would NOT be good for EVE, I think it could be designed into an MMO and be very good.
but, like open PvP, it would have to be designed into the games functions and workings from the ground up, no hacking it in later stuff.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Severe McCald
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Posted - 2006.03.24 11:19:00 -
[23]
When I started the sales bumph indicated that if you were podded you would lose a percentage of your skill points randomly. I have always thought this was a good idea for PvP (the real cost argument), so I would have np with, say, risking up to 10% of accumulated sp's for enormous reward (preferably off the top level of skills, so you don't lose abilities unless the loss is a prereq) - would the reward scale based on sp's at risk?
Beyond that, I would not choose to take the risk.
Sev
I saw a squirrel today jumping from one tree to another, the branch it landed on snapped. So the squirrel was on this falling branch, clambering like mad, thinking it was doing something about it.'
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Gottaa
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Posted - 2006.03.24 11:37:00 -
[24]
As Da Death says really. Only thing I'd add is the fact that this will give large corps an even larger advantage. Personally though I'd say the item should be something which gives instance training to someone who's been playing say less than a month ? This would both help the larger corps train up new members (giving them some help) and offer a useful reward to smallers corps grouping together to do this and get rewards that help them as well.
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