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bullnard
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:05:00 -
[1]
I had a merlin with 2x 150mm guns, a rocket and missile launcher but due to a stupid idea I had (guts larger than ship) I took on the wrong people and lost it. My question is, should I get another merlin and put some ISK into it to make it competable or should I buy the Caldari destroyer (comorant)
My skills include
Caldari frigate lv.3
Destroyers lv.2
spaceship command lv. 4
I have 1.7 mil ISK to spend so I can afford to upgrade the Merlin if I bought it again, but if I got the destroyer I could just stock it.
I have mostly been doing missions, and just playing around in space. I may join up sometime with someone but I'm not thinking about that yet.
Any suggestions?
Thanx,
Bullnard
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Myiesha
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:09:00 -
[2]
IMHO Destroyers suck in general with a few exceptions.
From what you have, I would say go with the Merlin. The main reason is you should not fly anything you cant afford to lose. Merlin can take care of your level 1 and level 2 missions and is a great way to build up experience until you can move to an Inty, AF, or Cruiser.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:25:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Myiesha
IMHO Destroyers suck in general with a few exceptions.
From what you have, I would say go with the Merlin. The main reason is you should not fly anything you cant afford to lose. Merlin can take care of your level 1 and level 2 missions and is a great way to build up experience until you can move to an Inty, AF, or Cruiser.
Destroyers do not "suck"--they are far more powerful than a Merlin, especially for a newbie.
A merlin would have no chance in many level 2 missions, so I'd highly suggest upgrading to a Destroyer. And an AF is not a reasonable goal for a newbie--it'll take him 3-4 months merely to train up the prerequisites.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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bullnard
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:32:00 -
[4]
Ok...... Thanks for the input. Can anyone give a tie breaker?
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Myiesha
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Myiesha on 24/03/2006 18:35:28
As you may notice, you will get lots of different views on things. :)
As for DD or Frigate... There are many threads on that. Some people love them, some view them as a waste of time and space. Personaly I am of the later. :)
I currently fly a Punisher and find it several times more effective for most missions then my Destroyer. My DD was getting shreaded and my Punisher has been able to take every level 2 mission with ease. Though twice I did have to switch from lasers to projectiles to beat a NPC's tank. (FYI that same NPC frigate shreaded my DD in a heart beat).
So fly the one you want, just make sure you have enough reserve cash after insurance to re-fit another ship should things go wrong. :)
From a pure skill point view.. Points spent in Frigate help you towards Inties and AF as well as Cruisers. Points spent in Destroyers are wasted unless your going to be flying the T2 DD's later (Very special role ships).
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Myiesha
From a pure skill point view.. Points spent in Frigate help you towards Inties and AF as well as Cruisers. Points spent in Destroyers are wasted unless your going to be flying the T2 DD's later (Very special role ships).
What do you mean?
The same skills you need for destroyers are the skills you need for frigates also. Out of hundreds of skills, only one benefits merely destroyers (the Destroyers skill itself), and all the others benefit both.
A destroyer easily has twice the firepower of a frigate, which makes it able to take down each wave of enemies much faster than a frigate. This means that while its tank is weak, it won't need to tank much. And it can easily fit a 400mm plate.
Good ship? Not really. But a newbie can't do nearly as much with a frigate as a veteran can.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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bullnard
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:40:00 -
[7]
Well thanks for all your help. seeing the split on Ideas I think I may go back to the Merlin, and when I get enough cash....tomorrow, I'll buy the destroyer and try that too.
Thanks again.
Bullnard
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Whodingi
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:48:00 -
[8]
In my experience (2 weeks in) it can be difficult doing some of the level 2 kill/encounter missions in a frigate unless you have pretty high skills. My Kestrel got destroyed by three missile-launching Guristas (I think it was) last weekend on one mission.
So I got a Thrasher. Now, this Destroyer isn't that much better in the defense department but I would think given it's superior offensive capabilities I would have stood a much better chance.
It's like a Catch 22 - until you have higher skills you need a better ship to make up the difference....but by the time you have higher skills you're gonna have a better ship and hopefully doing the higher level missions anyway.
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Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:51:00 -
[9]
The problem with the destroyer isn't that it sucks, it's that its mission profile is to engage multiple targets. Most battles with pirates or other players who want to cause you harm are going to be, at best, 2v1 unless you're both in a corporate war.
Most people skip straight to a cruiser because they solo in it. If you're a team player, the destroyers are the perfect anti-frigate platform.
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Myiesha
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:54:00 -
[10]
Training up Destroyer to level 3 or 4 or 5 only lets you fly... Destroyers. While that same time spent training up Frigate lets you fly Cruisers and later Interceptors and Assault Frigates. Hopefully that helps :) But yes, they do use the same support skills so training DD up to 3 really isnĘt a big deal.
As for double the firepower? I found that was not true, at least for Amarr. True you have double the Turret slots, but you do NOT have double the CPU or Grid. In addition you take a fairly heavy ROF hit which is only slightly offset by the Optimum Bonus.
In the end, as I said it is really a personal call. My reasons for Frigate over Destroyer are below.
1. Mobility. Frigates tend to be faster and agile.
This is not really a huge factor, but more fun for me. :)
2. Tanking. Frigates tank as well as a DD and take less damage.
Frigates and DD's have about the same Mid and Low Slots
Frigates have MUCH lower sigs resulting in a lot less damage being taken.
The Punisher has natural resist bonus which helps a lot over the Coercer. With the same configs my Punisher has as much armor as my Coer but about 10-20% higher resists.
3. Weapon Quality. Destroyers can mount more weapons but they tend to be of a smaller caliber. This is really a neutral factor because the rate of fire penalty hurts but is off-set by the optimum range bonus. I found I could deal out as much damage with my Punisher up close, but more damage at range because I could mount 4 long range guns vs. my Coercers 8 short range guns.
In the end, they are close enough it comes to a real personal preference. 
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Sabarius
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:57:00 -
[11]
When I lost my Merlin I went up to a cormorant and filled it with 75mm rails and a couple (maybe one, can't remember) or small launchers. It was a bit of a squeeze with the skills that I had but went through Lev I frigs like knifge through butter.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.24 19:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Myiesha
As for double the firepower? I found that was not true, at least for Amarr. True you have double the Turret slots, but you do NOT have double the CPU or Grid. In addition you take a fairly heavy ROF hit which is only slightly offset by the Optimum Bonus.
8 guns * 0.75 penalty = 6 guns
Frigate has 3 guns
6 = 2 * 3
Thus destroyer has double the firepower 
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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SadisticSavior
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Posted - 2006.03.24 19:25:00 -
[13]
I decided to skip Destroyers.
The extra turrets are nice, but the powergrid is too restrictive to really use them, especially if you are partial to energy weapons. I didnt like not having a drone bay.
I agree with the above poster who said they are for team players. If I was going on corp raids or something, I might be interested. But I solo most of the time right now. For soloing I think I would rather have a loaded Frigate and save my pennies for a Cruiser.
I dont think Destroyers suck, I just wouldnt use one as a solo player.
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Paunk
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Posted - 2006.03.24 19:50:00 -
[14]
My destroyer felt like a bloated frigate until I invested heavly in engineering and electronics... now it's great for wiping out swarms of frigates. But then again i am Minmatar and our guns don't suck the juice like lazers do.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.24 19:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
I dont think Destroyers suck, I just wouldnt use one as a solo player.
Agreed in terms of PvP.
In PvE, they're great for a newbie, but in PvP they're just going to get shredded, especially solo.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Livia Tarquina
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Posted - 2006.03.24 20:47:00 -
[16]
It's not that hard to fit 8 turrets. But I can see missions where you've got lots of enemies attacking you from all sides, so tanking is more important. Destroyers are good for ratting frigates and they have good cargoholds. In hi-sec you're going to be facing mostly frigates. In a gang you could sit back and fire your guns.
But to answer the question. It's up to you. I'd go with destroyer since frigates for me got more fun once I had more money and skills. I'd check with some ship-fit program and see if I could fit at least 5 guns on the destroyer. If not go with a frig.
"Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?"
--Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy |
SadisticSavior
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Posted - 2006.03.24 21:05:00 -
[17]
Yeah, I imagine their cargo holds and many turret mounts would make them really good newbie miners. The Caldari Destroyer has a larger cargo hold than my Blackbird crusier has.
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Neckbone
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Posted - 2006.03.24 21:15:00 -
[18]
My buddy's Thrasher sucks at it (mining), can only get 3 miners on there because of the low CPU.
Anyway for that Merlin, throw on an AB and the most shield HP you can get from Medium/Small Shield Extenders, fill the LO with Shield Power Relays & Power Diagnostic Systems (use SPR's, switching to PDS's if you have cap regen problems), and slap on whatever guns will fit after all that. You can trash level 2 missions in your ship, or get really bored in level 1 missions.
You need Energy Grid Upgrades II for the SPR's and PDS's, you need Shield Upgrades I for the Extenders.
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Grokoth StoRm
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Posted - 2006.03.24 22:11:00 -
[19]
Bullnard,
Yet another opinion to consider ū I jumped directly from a frigate to a cruiser. I read on the forums that destroyers werenĘt that much better than frigates and for level 2 missions probably would not perform as well as cruisers.
I was very disheartened when I first attempted to fit my Rifter. ęStuffĘ just wouldnĘt fit and I thought I had to sacrifice too much. I thought my olĘ Probe was a good ship. However, the more SP I accumulated, the better the Rifter became (and it just keeps getting better and better). I decided to upgrade to a Stabber for level 2 missions. While the CAP and CPU were MUCH improved, I found it was not really hitting any harder than the Rifter.(Tanked better than the Rifter however) Again I was disheartened. Though as my SP have increased, the Stabber keeps getting better and better.
POINT: Veterans will point out that experience and strategy are ęjustĘ as important as SP in a PvP battle, and I would agree. A youthful pilot with 3-5 million SP flying a frigate will compete very well with a veteran with 10 + million SP flying a frigate. Have to remember that the difference between skill level 4 and 5 is only 5%. The greatest benefit comes from levels 3-4 because of diminishing returns. Howeverą donĘt underestimate the value of having the SP necessary to fly a particular ship. In Eve, bigger is not always better.
I would say, fly your frigate or destroyer. Just take things slowly and work on getting your SP in shape. Those pilots who purchase a BS after spending a few weeks just getting flight skills while neglecting gunnery, missiles, navigation, electronics, or engineering, usually end up going home in a POD with their life savings blown across a solar system.
BTW, you may have noticed that these forums are a valuable resource. For instance, Dark ShikariĘs knowledge and willingness to share it is legendary here. After coming from a community much less helpful, I am amazed by those dedicated to making EVE a good place to be. Come back to the forums often.
Fly safe.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.03.24 23:46:00 -
[20]
Simple answer is turrets. You are already trained on small turrets since you use them on the frigate. Upgrading to a cruiser means you have to also skill up on medium turrets which will take time. The destroyer allows you to mount small turrets and lots more of them. The destructive firepower of a destroyer in the right hands is quite intense.
--
Even at 27K my sig was blurred and naff. This is too restricting Cortes. |
Livia Tarquina
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Posted - 2006.03.24 23:59:00 -
[21]
Yes, the best defense is offense for a destroyer.
"Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?"
--Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy |
Collypso
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Posted - 2006.03.25 00:21:00 -
[22]
I fly a cormorant... and i think its the best looking ship in the whole game, but... it sucks for anything above lvl 2 agent missions... and sucks even more in pvp
but it is a very nice ship for agents because they usually dont throw anything too hard to kill at you and it has a very nice cargo bay, plenty of firepower... flyin frigs until you get a battcruiser is a very bad idea... cuz youll get killed alot.
i recommend the cormorant... but stop learning destroyers
"Friends dont let friends pilot destroyers"
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.25 00:23:00 -
[23]
When you are new, you don't have the skills to make a Frigate that effective.
So for low level missions, a destroyer is a nice upgrade. I has twice as many guns/missles as most Frigates, which allows you to kill things faster.
In the early game that's important as you don't have the skills to buff up your shields and so on.
Destroyers have about the durability of a good frigate, with twice the firepower.
They're a good intrim ship. They make lvl 1 missions a breeze.
And they're VERY nice for all those damned kill the drones missions. You can target one drone per gun once you've trained up your skills a little.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken.
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