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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:21:00 -
[1]
Many people, far too many people rely on jamming to decide the outcome of a battle. I would like to derail that idea and add some suprise to the use of that combat crutch.
I want to see what peoples ideas are on the best way to defeat ECM TGT Jamming. Any ECCM configurations that they have used before. Especially battleship and cruiser configs (but frigates are welcome too).
Posting for Numbnutz |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:23:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Many people, far too many people rely on jamming to decide the outcome of a battle
Thats the only way to keep someone from warping away, that's why.
Unless they just log off.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:27:00 -
[3]
Quote:
Thats the only way to keep someone from warping away, that's why.
Unless they just log off.
But at least they didn't warp away...
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:28:00 -
[4]
If someone picks a fight I have no real reason to run away. (unless it's unfair odds and I save my self quite a few million dollars that insurance doesn't cover by running away... no sense losing a ship to "save face"). So thanks for not answering my question.
Posting for Numbnutz |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:33:00 -
[5]
Quote:
If someone picks a fight I have no real reason to run away. (unless it's unfair odds and I save my self quite a few million dollars that insurance doesn't cover by running away... no sense losing a ship to "save face"). So thanks for not answering my question.
You must not fly a battleship.
If I'm getting my ass-kicked I don't give a **** about pride and honour.
If I can warp away I'll warp away.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
darth solo
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:40:00 -
[6]
Agreed joshua.
Why stick around if you are getting your ass kicked?????.
Only way you will destroy someones ship is by warp scrambling them. unless you tottaly outgun them, and dont give them time to run away.
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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:43:00 -
[7]
Why yes I do fly a battleship. I only fly a Dominix because it's cheap (cost 50mil) and carry's all the drones I could ever use. I priced insurance an as I remember it came up a few million short of a new one... oh well... not the point...
Point is - I have 5 medium slots and 7 low slots with which to work with. I believe there has to be a kickass config. to boost up sensor ECCM ability enough to match or overcome comparable ECM. I would like to hear of successful uses of ECCM since so many use ECM. This would balance the playing field a bit for those who are on the ECM receiving end.
Thanks 
Posting for Numbnutz |
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:45:00 -
[8]
I see... you must think i'm referring to Warp Scrammbling / Jamming...
Nope, my bad, sorry for the misunderstanding - Target Lock Jamming not Warp Jamming
Posting for Numbnutz |
JAXX
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:46:00 -
[9]
Edited by: JAXX on 11/09/2003 20:48:56
Edited by: JAXX on 11/09/2003 20:46:48
CCP could possibly incorperate damaging components of the ship. like when in battle, there is a certain % of chance that your warp drive may be damaged in the fight with each hit. so eventually, or with a few good hits you could take out someones ability to warp away.
Not a well thought out Idea, but with some refining, and balancing it could work...any thoughts?
PS: same could go for guns or other modules for that matter, guns get slower or non tracking when dammaged, or someones webifier or warp jammer could stop working against you if you take it out in the insuing battle.
Sometimes to win, you have to fight just as mean and dirty as the other guy. Nobody will beat you challenging you to the field of honor for pistols at dawn. They have to slit your throat while you lay in bed, just like you'd do them. - Jash Illian |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:49:00 -
[10]
Clever use of 2 of your slots would pretty much negate the use of sensor-specific ECM - boost your ships sensor strength with a couple of ECCM modules.
Most EW pilots, if using specific ecm, only equip enough to defeat the base strength and not a boosted sensor strength.
2 sensor boosters would protect you from non-sensor specific ECM (sensor dampeners).
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 20:55:00 -
[11]
Of course, if you have someone target-locked, warp jammed, and webified, you'd find most pilots would just log off.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.11 21:58:00 -
[12]
Was playing around with a couple pirates in Metro. So far for their group I knew they had a Breacher, 2 Moas and a Rupture. I was in a Tempest so I wasn't concerned facing 2 of them. When they saw me, however, they showed they had another ship:
A Blackbird.
When the Blackbird showed up, I immediately 180'd and went into evasive. And their cajoling couldn't force me out while I waited for reinforcements. I know Blackbirds and I know my own ships. I was ill prepared to fight a Rupture and a Blackbird which undoubtedly was carrying ECM gear targetted for Minmatar ships. Which was confirmed later when another Tempest pilot was down to 26% armor and needed cruisers against the same 2 people.
So I have a healthy respect for EW. My only issue with EW is the non-specific EW gear such as sensor dampeners is so much more effective than specialized EW. If people could actually deploy fleets meaningfully, a Blackbird with sensor dampeners could make the fight extremely ugly for five battleships. With their range halved while the birdie's bships at full range, those ships are out of the picture and taking damage until they cross within range.
Using specialized ECM gear, the Blackbird might be able to handle 1 ship within its own ship class if it didn't take any strenuous defenses against jamming. Specialized ECM gear can totally lock out a vessel. But is it necessary to give up that number of slots when a single sensor dampener can render similiar results when used properly? At less cost in midslots.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:02:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Was playing around with a couple pirates in Metro. So far for their group I knew they had a Breacher, 2 Moas and a Rupture. I was in a Tempest so I wasn't concerned facing 2 of them. When they saw me, however, they showed they had another ship:
A Blackbird.
When the Blackbird showed up, I immediately 180'd and went into evasive. And their cajoling couldn't force me out while I waited for reinforcements. I know Blackbirds and I know my own ships. I was ill prepared to fight a Rupture and a Blackbird which undoubtedly was carrying ECM gear targetted for Minmatar ships. Which was confirmed later when another Tempest pilot was down to 26% armor and needed cruisers against the same 2 people.
So I have a healthy respect for EW. My only issue with EW is the non-specific EW gear such as sensor dampeners is so much more effective than specialized EW. If people could actually deploy fleets meaningfully, a Blackbird with sensor dampeners could make the fight extremely ugly for five battleships. With their range halved while the birdie's bships at full range, those ships are out of the picture and taking damage until they cross within range.
Using specialized ECM gear, the Blackbird might be able to handle 1 ship within its own ship class if it didn't take any strenuous defenses against jamming. Specialized ECM gear can totally lock out a vessel. But is it necessary to give up that number of slots when a single sensor dampener can render similiar results when used properly? At less cost in midslots.
Not sure a single sensor dampener can be really effective one-on-one since cruisers (plus long range targeting skill) mean they can still target within warp-jamming range.
I always always carry around a full ECM kit in my cargo.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Shock
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:06:00 -
[14]
I beleive sensor dampeners are going to be smacked by the nerfball next patch.
It's idiotic indeed that specialized ECM is less strong then dampeners.
A solution could be to make dampeners specific as well.
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soonÖ |
Plasmatique
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Plasmatique on 11/09/2003 22:12:17
ECM is a "rock-paper-scissors" game.
If you knew what somebody was going to jam you with, you'd know what to counter.
Example:
Pirate A. Hole has a blackbird.
You have a Thorax.
Pirate A. Hole's blackbird has 6 med slots. He decides to fit one warp scrambler, one web stasis and a sensor booster. Now he has 3 slots left.
He can fit 3 type-specific jammers, for a total strength of -18 only for that specific type, or he can fit 3 multispectrals for a total output of -12.
Your Thorax has a base scanner strength of 11 Magnometric.
If Pirate Hole gets lucky and fits 3 Ion Field Projectors, you would need a med slot ECCM Magnometric (+3 for a total of 14) plus three low slot Magnometric backup array (+2 each for a total of 20).
If he fitted multi's you'd need less.
If he fitted spatial destabilizers in hopes of snaring a MOA, you dont need anything.
Or Pirate Hole can fit another ECM device in place of something else...
Rock.....Paper......Scissors
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Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:24:00 -
[16]
I think ECM is too strong right now. You don't need to have a higher jamming strengh than the sensor strengh of your opponent, only match it. Webbied and warp scrambling are things that you can somewhat counter with firepower. But if you are jammed, bye bye my dear.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:27:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Not sure a single sensor dampener can be really effective one-on-one since cruisers (plus long range targeting skill) mean they can still target within warp-jamming range.
I always always carry around a full ECM kit in my cargo.
I said "If people could actually deploy fleets meaningfully". What I described was the makings of a long range battle. One you should start considering if you saw Todifraun's video and caught the bit about 100km radius warp disruption fields.
At that point, a single sensor dampener means free shots for the 1/2 range of the dampened person. Which means cap wasted repairing damage done before you even begin firing in return.
Sound a little different now?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:27:00 -
[18]
ECM too strong?
It's the riskiest way of fighting.
It's not about smacking as many dmg mods in your low slots and hitting for all you've got.
It's about balancing the "catch" with keeping them "caught".
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:29:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Not sure a single sensor dampener can be really effective one-on-one since cruisers (plus long range targeting skill) mean they can still target within warp-jamming range.
I always always carry around a full ECM kit in my cargo.
I said "If people could actually deploy fleets meaningfully". What I described was the makings of a long range battle. One you should start considering if you saw Todifraun's video and caught the bit about 100km radius warp disruption fields.
At that point, a single sensor dampener means free shots for the 1/2 range of the dampened person. Which means cap wasted repairing damage done before you even begin firing in return.
Sound a little different now?
Ahhhhh.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.09.11 22:56:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I think ECM is too strong right now. You don't need to have a higher jamming strengh than the sensor strengh of your opponent, only match it. Webbied and warp scrambling are things that you can somewhat counter with firepower. But if you are jammed, bye bye my dear.
To jam a Scorpion you need 3 ECM - Spatial Destabilizer I. That's all the slots my Armageddon. If the scorp had one ECCM - Gravimetric I I wouldn't even be able to jam it because I'd need 4 ECM units. I don't think that's "too strong". I think that's just about right. rock-paper-scissors. I wouldn't be able to jam any other race besides frigs and indies.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
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Kerry
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Posted - 2003.09.11 23:08:00 -
[21]
An answer to the original post (as to "Target Jamming.") I have been target jammed after being chased down. I was unable to lock him while his missles slugged into me. But I happened to have a Passive Targeter Aray I on, which allowed me to target him visually. By activating it then clicking onto him.
It took two tries but it targeted him, this, without him even knowing he WAS targeted. I was then able to open up all 5 hybrids on him, much to his surprise, especially not even know he was targeted...
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Kerry
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Posted - 2003.09.11 23:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kerry on 11/09/2003 23:10:58
a doh'?
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Striker IV
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Posted - 2003.09.11 23:14:00 -
[23]
I agree its strong, but if i need to use ECM , i have to use at minimum 3-6 modules, thats plain and simple either less i can damage someone, or less i can use to help my ship...
rock paper ... crap i forgot a module... ( toast)
:)
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.09.12 07:20:00 -
[24]
lol only noob pirates use ...well nevermind =)
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
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