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Prometheas
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Posted - 2006.03.25 07:08:00 -
[1]
This question basically goes out to CCP.
I have developed a program that allows user to select which F keys / Alt + F keys / Ctrl + F keys they would like to have pressed repeaditly on their behalf.
This program was designed with the idea of having it keep press say F1 every few seconds to allow afk autopilot + mwd/afterburner usage.
Because of the way I made it, it can also be used to turn all your guns on/off at once.
That is ALL the program can do and isn't capable of macro mining etc...
I have read the EULA and it SOUNDS like this type of macro is acceptable because it DOES NOT allow the procurement of items/skills/isk etc.
All this program can do is save us all time by providing features we all wanted in the game to begin with :)
So, the question, will CCP allow me to market this program to the public for ISK?
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Watching
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Posted - 2006.03.25 07:17:00 -
[2]
From the EULA: You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.03.25 07:19:00 -
[3]
The combat application is acceptable near as my reading can tell.
However this greatly expedites hauling and travel. Both of which are time limited factors on wealth accumulation in EVE, therefore your Macro does qaulify as an exploit.
There is a effort/efficiency tradeoff incorporated into EVE to balance wealth accumulation. Instas and MWD are fine because you must be paying attention to EVE to use them, With your program you break that balance.
PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2006.03.25 07:30:00 -
[4]
If you get the green light, I will be the first to put my hand up for this. Would be great to use, just for the mwd/ab aspect of it. Doesnt bother me one bit whether weapons etc can be used with it, just for travel purposes. Mail me in-game, will get back to you in a few days once my comp is fixed.
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Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting
Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB)
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Hakera
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Posted - 2006.03.25 07:35:00 -
[5]
it enhances gameplay unfairly over other players allowing you to faciliate an activity whilst not present at the computer or to enable rapid keystrokes giving an advantage over other people.
It wont be allowed and you may get warned for using it as is or more.
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.03.25 08:13:00 -
[6]
constantly sending keypresses to the client will get you red flagged in server logs
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.03.25 08:18:00 -
[7]
soundsl ike technically it breaks the EULA email CCP direct
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.25 09:26:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: ToxicFire
constantly sending keypresses to the client will get you red flagged in server logs
You mean... playing the game as normal will get you redflagged?! blimey.
I use voice control software and I've linked all my hi-slots, mids and lows to one voice command, and set several other shortcuts up to be activated on voice (autopilot on/off, map...).
This is perfectly legal (I have GM confirmation).
Nostromo gaming pads enable one button press to activate all the modules if you wish.
I think the main factor that makes your program an exploit is because of the fact it allows you to play AFK at a speed faster than other AFK players in the same scenario. Nostromo's and Shoot (voice control) both require you to be at the machine.
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Memorable Quotes
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Exuscon
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Posted - 2006.03.25 10:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Prometheas
This question basically goes out to CCP.
I have developed a program that allows user to select which F keys / Alt + F keys / Ctrl + F keys they would like to have pressed repeaditly on their behalf.
This program was designed with the idea of having it keep press say F1 every few seconds to allow afk autopilot + mwd/afterburner usage.
Because of the way I made it, it can also be used to turn all your guns on/off at once.
That is ALL the program can do and isn't capable of macro mining etc...
I have read the EULA and it SOUNDS like this type of macro is acceptable because it DOES NOT allow the procurement of items/skills/isk etc.
All this program can do is save us all time by providing features we all wanted in the game to begin with :)
So, the question, will CCP allow me to market this program to the public for ISK?
you created some Vaporware UI?
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2006.03.25 10:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hakera
it enhances gameplay unfairly over other players allowing you to faciliate an activity whilst not present at the computer or to enable rapid keystrokes giving an advantage over other people.
It wont be allowed and you may get warned for using it as is or more.
Hummm Teamspeak and Vent pop up in my brain...those that have highspeed cable connections, can have the advantage over those that are on dial up or DSL.
And then again, those that are able to pay for multiple accounts also have an unfair advantage over those that only have one account.
So what is the problem with a program that allows travel ease? or macro mining?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.25 10:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: Hakera
it enhances gameplay unfairly over other players allowing you to faciliate an activity whilst not present at the computer or to enable rapid keystrokes giving an advantage over other people.
It wont be allowed and you may get warned for using it as is or more.
Hummm Teamspeak and Vent pop up in my brain...those that have highspeed cable connections, can have the advantage over those that are on dial up or DSL.
And then again, those that are able to pay for multiple accounts also have an unfair advantage over those that only have one account.
So what is the problem with a program that allows travel ease? or macro mining?
Because those things do not speed up current game play.
If your AFK your ship will not AB to every gate. This program gives an unfair advantage in that it speeds up travel when your AFK.
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Michiyo Daishi
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Posted - 2006.03.25 11:47:00 -
[12]
reading through the EULA, I can see that its technically possibly okay to do so, IFF in combat and so at your station, so to speak. AFK use, well, thats something else.
Shouldnt someone from CCP take a look at this? o_O
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seeking freedom... |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.25 11:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Michiyo Daishi
reading through the EULA, I can see that its technically possibly okay to do so, IFF in combat and so at your station, so to speak. AFK use, well, thats something else.
Shouldnt someone from CCP take a look at this? o_O
lol :D im going mad. I swear you just said "Identify Friend or Foe" :D lol. Took me 30 more seconds to read it as what it means :D (if and only if) :D
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Memorable Quotes
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2006.03.25 11:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: Hakera
it enhances gameplay unfairly over other players allowing you to faciliate an activity whilst not present at the computer or to enable rapid keystrokes giving an advantage over other people.
It wont be allowed and you may get warned for using it as is or more.
Hummm Teamspeak and Vent pop up in my brain...those that have highspeed cable connections, can have the advantage over those that are on dial up or DSL.
And then again, those that are able to pay for multiple accounts also have an unfair advantage over those that only have one account.
So what is the problem with a program that allows travel ease? or macro mining?
Because those things do not speed up current game play.
If your AFK your ship will not AB to every gate. This program gives an unfair advantage in that it speeds up travel when your AFK.
If I have 7 accounts (I dont) Why would I need to be in a corp? I would be a real one man corp...
Teamspeak and vent allow log on traps, and log offs when a smaller or larger force is approaching. The also allow communications while in massive fleet battles, while the other side may or may not have either.
And Macro mining is not per say a AFK activity. I my self have disrupted such operations. 8 ships being controled by one human.
So a program that eases travel time...compared to a person that has thousands of BM's, who is going faster from point A to point B? The AFK travel or the BM user?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.25 11:59:00 -
[15]
Definitely against the EULA. If its not, they'll fix the EULA to make it against it.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.25 12:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
So what is the problem with a program that allows travel ease? or macro mining?
Quite simple. One is against the EULA.
It's not a morality issue or a debate item. It's a simple fact.
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.25 12:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: Hakera
it enhances gameplay unfairly over other players allowing you to faciliate an activity whilst not present at the computer or to enable rapid keystrokes giving an advantage over other people.
It wont be allowed and you may get warned for using it as is or more.
Hummm Teamspeak and Vent pop up in my brain...those that have highspeed cable connections, can have the advantage over those that are on dial up or DSL.
And then again, those that are able to pay for multiple accounts also have an unfair advantage over those that only have one account.
So what is the problem with a program that allows travel ease? or macro mining?
Because those things do not speed up current game play.
If your AFK your ship will not AB to every gate. This program gives an unfair advantage in that it speeds up travel when your AFK.
If I have 7 accounts (I dont) Why would I need to be in a corp? I would be a real one man corp...
Teamspeak and vent allow log on traps, and log offs when a smaller or larger force is approaching. The also allow communications while in massive fleet battles, while the other side may or may not have either.
And Macro mining is not per say a AFK activity. I my self have disrupted such operations. 8 ships being controled by one human.
So a program that eases travel time...compared to a person that has thousands of BM's, who is going faster from point A to point B? The AFK travel or the BM user?
But Teamspeak and Vent dont automatically set up login traps whilst your not at the computer.
BM users are at the computer turning AP off and on and manually selecting the BM's.
Macro mining doesnt come into this.
Your program breaks the eula because it allows faster than other AFK players travel. Get in exactly the same ship, same setups, same skills then set up AP go afk and race each other. Which player will travel faster? Them.. or you who's automatically AB'ing to every gate.
Make it industrials... who's going to get to that NPC buy/sell order first? hmm...
Compare like with like when your trying to put an argument together or just dont bother.
-----
Memorable Quotes
<Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE |
Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.03.25 12:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Definitely against the EULA. If its not, they'll fix the EULA to make it against it.
Have to agree with DS here, from the sounds of it while it does not modify the client it does give you an advantage over the other players playing AFK and that is whats against the EULA, now while TS/Vent do give you a communications advantage this does not always translate in to a gaming advantage, being able to co-ordinate attacks and defenses better does not always make you win so no real gain there, besides i mostly use it for acting like an idiot when drinking anyways ^^
While i might be wrong i think this might be the case with your application, was a great idea but it would have to be given to every single player and built in to the code of the game before i can really see it being allowed, A+ for effort tho :)
O RLY?! --Jorauk
Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes |
Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2006.03.25 12:29:00 -
[19]
Meathead your barking at the wrong tree, I dont beleave any third part program should be allowed. Not do I beleave people should have more than one account. I can afford more if I wanted to. (hint as I type this I get paid overtime to do it) But if your going to dissallow a travel program that is already in use, then you need to ***** down on all the rest of the macros in use today.
P.S. I dont speak or type leet so the translation to english.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.25 14:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Meathead your barking at the wrong tree, I dont beleave any third part program should be allowed. Not do I beleave people should have more than one account. I can afford more if I wanted to. (hint as I type this I get paid overtime to do it) But if your going to dissallow a travel program that is already in use, then you need to ***** down on all the rest of the macros in use today.
P.S. I dont speak or type leet so the translation to english.
Crap translation :) but then again when I was 13 I knew no better either. Apparantly translates to Metathead, was meant to be metalhead :)
Sounded like you were advocating use of the program (still does) because there are macroers.
Two wrongs do not make a right (Three left's do though :))
Game aids such as that which I use (Shoot speech recognition) and nostromo's help prevent RSI injuries and dont take away anything or add anything to the gaming experience. Neither does Teamspeak, gang chat can be as effective as teamspeak if used correctly.
Macro's such as this however are wrong :) If we can eliminate this one then its one more bad guy out of the way... eliminate the others as we go :)
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Memorable Quotes
<Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE |
Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2006.03.25 15:02:00 -
[21]
Nope, I dont advocate it, but typed my fingers off, for three years trying to end it.
Why prevent one from useing a macro when your allowing others to do it for RL cash? Check out e-bay...got 13.95? Then you can get a BS and all the skills needed to fly it.
Want one of those real good hardners...e-bay
Want a few million to a billion ISK. Go to e-bay.
The worst thing that can happen to an online game, is the macro miners, and other thrid party programs. That allow you to get up start the game, and go to work/school/store...etc...etc. And CCP has made it possible and is allowing it to continue.
So if they wont stop the Macro miners, then why stop the Macro traveler?
AS for going anywhere in Eve while AFK well thats just plane dumb....
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes |
Bigoleed
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Posted - 2006.03.25 15:28:00 -
[22]
wow you "developed" a sript/macro that comes with a million pieces of hardware these days..and that you can make with a simple free download of about 10 dif programs...
the type of macro you are referring to isn't illegal...if it was the nostromo would be as well.
it is when you start interpreting the environment and manipulating it through a macro that is an issue....such as having your toon interacting with the environment by using gates...mining...fighting...
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.03.25 15:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Nope, I dont advocate it, but typed my fingers off, for three years trying to end it.
Why prevent one from useing a macro when your allowing others to do it for RL cash? Check out e-bay...got 13.95? Then you can get a BS and all the skills needed to fly it.
They don't allow it. There is a difference between allowing it and not being able to stop something.
You can always ask CCP to change the rules, but: Play by the rules or don't play. It's only your own fault if you break the rules and face the consequences.
I mean in RL, it would be rediculous, if a thief demanded not to be punished, because he knew someone, who got away with it, too. 
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.25 16:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bigoleed
wow you "developed" a sript/macro that comes with a million pieces of hardware these days..and that you can make with a simple free download of about 10 dif programs...
the type of macro you are referring to isn't illegal...if it was the nostromo would be as well.
it is when you start interpreting the environment and manipulating it through a macro that is an issue....such as having your toon interacting with the environment by using gates...mining...fighting...
Er.. can I suggest you re-read the OP's post.
And can you also answer this question: "Does the Nostromo playback keypresses without needing human interaction?" If the answer is yes then obviously what I precieve to be the nostromo is wrong, and yes it should be banned. The program the op suggests does exactly this.
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Memorable Quotes
<Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE |
Prometheas
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Posted - 2006.03.25 17:51:00 -
[25]
Everyones hang up seems to be that it would provide an "unfair advantage".
Well what if I released this program for free?
Also, I wouldn't mind running the program past CCP first.
CPP input would be really appreciated...
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.03.25 17:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Prometheas
Everyones hang up seems to be that it would provide an "unfair advantage".
Well what if I released this program for free?
Also, I wouldn't mind running the program past CCP first.
CPP input would be really appreciated...
Well not everyone reads the forums so would still provide an unfair advantage to those who don't, besides if ccp had wanted such a feature it would have been implimented already, some things are supposede to be slow.
O RLY?! --Jorauk
Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.25 17:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Prometheas
Everyones hang up seems to be that it would provide an "unfair advantage".
Well what if I released this program for free?
Also, I wouldn't mind running the program past CCP first.
CPP input would be really appreciated...
Making it free doesn't stop it from violating the EULA.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Prometheas
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Posted - 2006.03.25 18:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Prometheas
Everyones hang up seems to be that it would provide an "unfair advantage".
Well what if I released this program for free?
Also, I wouldn't mind running the program past CCP first.
CPP input would be really appreciated...
Making it free doesn't stop it from violating the EULA.
The EULA is not set in stone. One of the first lines states that they reserver the right to change it if they want. So the big question is would they mind this?
An earlier poster said that if CCP wanted this in then it already would have been implemented. But EvE is a vast game, and we all know they can't do everything at once.
Many other MMOs such as UO supported the use of SOME out of game programs while banning others. So I really would like to know what CCP is thinking on not everyone's speculative intel...
Oh and furthermore, what about a program that macros copying/pasting kill mails from eve into an out of game killboard, I made one of those too...?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.25 18:09:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Prometheas
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Prometheas
Everyones hang up seems to be that it would provide an "unfair advantage".
Well what if I released this program for free?
Also, I wouldn't mind running the program past CCP first.
CPP input would be really appreciated...
Making it free doesn't stop it from violating the EULA.
The EULA is not set in stone. One of the first lines states that they reserver the right to change it if they want. So the big question is would they mind this?
An earlier poster said that if CCP wanted this in then it already would have been implemented. But EvE is a vast game, and we all know they can't do everything at once.
Many other MMOs such as UO supported the use of SOME out of game programs while banning others. So I really would like to know what CCP is thinking on not everyone's speculative intel...
Oh and furthermore, what about a program that macros copying/pasting kill mails from eve into an out of game killboard, I made one of those too...?
The EULA is not a legal document--it is an expression of CCP's own policies in words.
CCP has stated, over and over (and I have asked this myself) that ALL macro programs are banned, no matter what. This includes macros that do not give any in-game advantage over someone else, for example a macro to drag ore to your cargo hold or even a macro to load all the portraits on a list.
The only exception as far as I know that CCP has ever made is for the Logitech G15 and other programmable keyboards.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.03.25 18:10:00 -
[30]
In a way Voice activation does advocate and unfair advantage. You can be halfway across the room AFK and set the AB or MDW to activate when the voice activation softare hears, "Approaching stargate".
Seems like everyone is geeting panicked because Prometheas inferred the naughty word "Macro" in his description of the software which does exactly the same thing.
--
Even at 27K my sig was blurred and naff. This is too restricting Cortes. |
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