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Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
673
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 15:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
So all we every hear out of the 0.0 Coalitions when there is a fleet fight is who blobbed who, TiDi was terrible, and if it wasnGÇÖt for GÇ£XGÇ¥ then so and so would have wonGǪGǪ This seems to then spiral up into what CCP is doing wrong and what they need to fixGǪGǪ.which ends up being some server/node/code/math discussion that any sane person can see couldnGÇÖt be solved anytime soon. So why donGÇÖt the players intervene to come up with their own solution?
PL and CFC just hammered out a pretty lengthy agreement related to the rules of engagement between these two parties. Why canGÇÖt the leaders of majority space holders in 0.0 sit down and hammer out a agreement related to 0.0 combat which fits within the current game capabilities which can be adjusted each year as CCPs hardware gets better?
There are basically about 10 people who drive 0.0 content which can escalate into 2,000+ in system so it doesnGÇÖt need to be that every Alliance CEO has to be at the table to do this. This GÇ£reasonsGÇ¥ for the blob/coalitions etc. existing has been examined endlessly so the details and framework of a 0.0 engagement agreement can easily be crafted to address these factors etc.
Example Idea: Alliance GÇ£RankingGÇ¥ system: Each Null sec Alliance is given a rank 1, 2, 3, 4 determined by size, time zone, and any other factors . Alliances like PL are ranked 1 while Alliances like Li3 are ranked a 3 for example. If PL goes after Li3 than Li3 can request help from 2 other Alliances ranked 3GÇÖs as well to help. Any other Alliances that enter the filed during the fleet fight are now hostile to all parties on the field and are the focus until driven off the field etc. This ranking only applies to direct SOV threats and not to any other engagement like POS take downs, griefing, hotdrops, etc.
This way itGÇÖs kept simple and as balanced as possible. Maybe use current GÇ£War DeclarationGÇ¥ calculations to determine rank or something and Alliances that respond to the lower ranked Alliance request for help need to accept so thereGÇÖs no GÇ£misunderstanding as to who the other ranked Alliances were that are involved in the war are etc.
EVE has some of the smartest people playing it yet when it comes to figuring out how to solve the only issue 0.0 cries the most about they seem to become the dumbest people on the planetGǪ..wtf? Form some sort of Council and sit the **** down to hammer some kind of agreement out that works with what the games capabilities are currently and adjust it each year.
With great power comes great responsibility so man the **** up and do something game changing instead of crying like school girls each time TiDi kills a GÇ£GFGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪunless itGÇÖs the only thing that saves your ass in these engagements, and in that case maybe you down want to develop a solution?.........or give yourself a rank that allows you to play at the level youGÇÖre comfortable with.
C/D? .
Podside Podcasts - Episode #170-www.podbay.fm/show/542915403 Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á --áGÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1171
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 15:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not even worth discussing. You do not get Eve... neither player driven content... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Leigh Akiga
My Highsec Backbone
516
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 15:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
CAOD -----------------------------------------------> that way
Also- when supers are tackled all bets are off and everyone wants to get on the killmail: see the 14 Solar supers where PL blobbed 700 people into there..
700 for 14 ships..and then they cry about blobbing |

Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints Circle-Of-Two
747
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
How bourgeois. |

Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
48
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
The means/tools for gaining territory are earned liniar or exponential to the amount of gained territory which eventualy leads to centralization. This kills the 0.0 "domination" sandbox and gives tranquility a "chinees" character.
You are sugesting a solution for a problem without a solution for the origin of the problem.
Would this also not be a first step for killing of the above sandbox with the risk of a global EVE peace?
Yes i find my monthy plex becomming too expensive. |

Aiwha
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
700
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
PL and the CFC already had an agreement not to hit each others tech moons back when tech was the be all end all of 0.0 isk. Now its renting. So they agreed not to hit each others renters since that's where the isk is. I'm not really sure WHY considering how the war is going, but I guess PL just likes to hedge their bets at all times. We're winning the war if it says so on CAOD! -á
|

Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
444
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
I can appreciate what you're trying to achieve, but it all seems a bit staged and non-emergent.
I'd love for sov war to be something that is worth investing the time in rather than the over-hyped serial disappointment it currently is.
Sadly, I really can't imagine anyone sticking to any such agreement, it'd be a brief and fragile accord that everyone would be in a rush to renege on in the hope another organisation would be naive enough to actually adhere to it.
The only way big fleet fights will ever be defined by anything other than technological limitations is if there is no advantage in superior numbers (and/or being first to the field).
EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1387
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
mmm pre-arranged everything ... sounds like a carebear theampark nirvana to me ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1717
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: PL and CFC just hammered out a pretty lengthy agreement related to the rules of engagement between these two parties. Why canGÇÖt the leaders of majority space holders in 0.0 sit down and hammer out a agreement related to 0.0 combat which fits within the current game capabilities which can be adjusted each year as CCPs hardware gets better?
And who exactly is the fool who would believe that this "agreement" would be adhered to? After all, there would be a significant advantage in being the first to "cheat". Why bother wasting time with agreements that no one will follow - even if it was possible to enforce them on alliance members. |

Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
675
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Not to be a **** but if you knew anything about 0.0 youGÇÖd know that many fights are brought about via back channel discussions between opposing sides etc. Fights have always either happened or not by each side examining what the others numbers, ship doctrines, and who else might show up and a good portion of these potential fights donGÇÖt end up happening because something is perceived to be very lopsided. But again, IGÇÖm not interested in solving that ****, IGÇÖm pointing to the fights like 6VDT, HED-GP etc that end up drawing everyone to the fight and no one ends up having a good time.
The focus is on GÇ£WarsGÇ¥ and SOV, not skirmishes, CSSA take downs, hotdrops, and random fleet fights that always happen organically (Like Asakai) all over EVE, IGÇÖm talking the big timers and Alliance vs. Alliance wars etc.
To those that say that this or any similar idea wouldnGÇÖt be followed by the majority of Null Sec, I would simply point to the SOV map and say that it appears to be working pretty well know under the term GÇ£CoalitionGÇ¥GǪ..
Like I said, the content drivers ( and only the content drivers ) in 0.0 could hammer something out and tbh this wouldnGÇÖt affect most of the people replying to this thread simply because youGÇÖre mostly irrelevant when it comes to these large Null Sec SOV wars so feel free to comment but please know that your negative input falls like a snowflake on hot pavementGǪGǪ. . Podside Podcasts - Episode #170-www.podbay.fm/show/542915403 Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á --áGÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" |

Muestereate
Minions LLC
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
How about perma banning these ten people you speak of for breach of Eula and then the bloodbath to fill the void can start. |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4198
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 16:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
What we need is a time machine.
If we have a time machine, we could go back to 2003 and warn CCP about this. Of course the robot we send will have to have skin all over it, or something - maybe stuff it in a huge sausage - whatever.
We could warn them that they would need a mechanic that only lets so many ships lock onto a given ship at one time, that the targeting system of one ship can cause too much noise in the system of another and prevent tracking and target lock.
We could also tell them that explosions from missiles and ships blowing up need to have AOE damage and large ships needs to go up like the Death Star.
Finally, we need to tell them that infinitely respawning resources will lead to too many capital ships and too many poor tactics that can result in huge laggy blobs, and if big enough, causes a huge PR mess.
|

progodlegend
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
145
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:How about perma banning these ten people you speak of for breach of Eula and then the bloodbath to fill the void can start.
This is by far the best idea to fix 0.0 that anyone has come up with. I've even thought about it at times.
This gets my support, I'll go tell the devs right now. |

Mysti Izrizi
THE EMPERIUM MATRIX 002
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Didn't take long for Riverini to copy/pasta this. Toss it up on his site under "submissions" and say its original content. |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1388
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:the content drivers ( and only the content drivers ) in 0.0 could hammer something out and tbh  .
If by drivers you mean driving just about all content out of nullsec then we're in agreement, and no we don't need any more "help" from them. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

L'ouris
1st Steps Academy Fidelas Constans
118
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
:frystare:
Not nearly enough emoticons and smiley faces to be the real snot shot.
|

progodlegend
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
145
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mysti Izrizi wrote:Didn't take long for Riverini to copy/pasta this. Toss it up on his site under "submissions" and say its original content.
Snot Shot tweeted it to EN24 and wanted to submit it.
But it's cool I get it, **** talking EN24 is easy and you need ways to appear good at posting. |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2078
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Snot Shot wrote:the content drivers ( and only the content drivers ) in 0.0 could hammer something out and tbh  . If by drivers you mean driving just about all content out of nullsec then we're in agreement, and no we don't need any more "help" from them.
I said it months ago. goons saw the Chinese Eve business model, and saw that it was good. Now we are seeing the implementation of that business model on TQ.
CCP did nothing when the chinese cartels divided up Serenity and shut down any of this "player content creation" I hear so much about. So it is extremely unlikely CCP will do anything about it on TQ.
If the clowns running these cartels (actually, they are hardly clowns, they are simply smart businessmen playing with a lot of spreadsheets), were serious about "content creation" we would have heard many of them yelling "Cry havoc, and let slip the dog's of war" (which sounds much better in its native Klingon tongue).
Instead, we have these businessmen sitting down, hammering out non-combat pacts, protecting their PVE income, and lobbying CCP for ways to maximize that PVE income.
The fact that plexes are skyrocketing in price is no co-incidence with all this blue hand-holding. More and more null sec players have huge cash reserves, and they are chasing fewer and fewer plexes being sold for ISK, as the null sec players certainly don't need ISK, and fewer and fewer high sec players and new players are logging on, meaning no demand for ISK.
The blogsphere was alive last week with the question about what is causing the plateau in people logging on. The answer is the null sec blue blanket, which makes null sec players very rich, but also very bored, plus the constant attack on high sec players, ingame by the bored null sec griefing alts, and by CCP dev's, which is driving down high sec particpation as well.
CCP could alter this stagnation by accepting the fact that the goons have won Eve, congratulating them, and then blowing up every game mechanic that supported their ingame and meta-game actions. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
96
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Crap I just ran out of tinfoil.
That post hurt my fillings. |

EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
436
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 17:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Its from eve 24, should have died there.
|

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
945
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 18:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nothing new here.
Consensual ~wargames~ and all that. |

Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2924
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 19:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:bourgeois.
Word of the day - Bourgeois. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1071
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 19:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:So all we every hear out of the 0.0 Coalitions when there is a fleet fight is who blobbed who, TiDi was terrible, and if it wasnGÇÖt for GÇ£XGÇ¥ then so and so would have wonGǪGǪ  This seems to then spiral up into what CCP is doing wrong and what they need to fixGǪGǪ.which ends up being some server/node/code/math discussion that any sane person can see couldnGÇÖt be solved anytime soon. So why donGÇÖt the players intervene to come up with their own solution? PL and CFC just hammered out a pretty lengthy agreement related to the rules of engagement between these two parties. Why canGÇÖt the leaders of majority space holders in 0.0 sit down and hammer out a agreement related to 0.0 combat which fits within the current game capabilities which can be adjusted each year as CCPs hardware gets better? There are basically about 10 people who drive 0.0 content which can escalate into 2,000+ in system so it doesnGÇÖt need to be that every Alliance CEO has to be at the table to do this. This GÇ£reasonsGÇ¥ for the blob/coalitions etc. existing has been examined endlessly so the details and framework of a 0.0 engagement agreement can easily be crafted to address these factors etc. Example Idea: Alliance GÇ£ RankingGÇ¥ system: Each Null sec Alliance is given a rank 1, 2, 3, 4 determined by size, time zone, and any other factors . Alliances like PL are ranked 1 while Alliances like Li3 are ranked a 3 for example. If PL goes after Li3 than Li3 can request help from 2 other Alliances ranked 3GÇÖs as well to help. Any other Alliances that enter the filed during the fleet fight are now hostile to all parties on the field and are the focus until driven off the field etc. This ranking only applies to direct SOV threats and not to any other engagement like POS take downs, griefing, hotdrops, etc. This way itGÇÖs kept simple and as balanced as possible. Maybe use current GÇ£War DeclarationGÇ¥ calculations to determine rank or something and Alliances that respond to the lower ranked Alliance request for help need to accept so thereGÇÖs no GÇ£misunderstanding as to who the other ranked Alliances were that are involved in the war are etc. EVE has some of the smartest people playing it yet when it comes to figuring out how to solve the only issue 0.0 cries the most about they seem to become the dumbest people on the planetGǪ..wtf? Form some sort of Council and sit the **** down to hammer some kind of agreement out that works with what the games capabilities are currently and adjust it each year. With great power comes great responsibility so man the **** up and do something game changing instead of crying like school girls each time TiDi kills a GÇ£GFGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪunless itGÇÖs the only thing that saves your ass in these engagements, and in that case maybe you down want to develop a solution?.........or give yourself a rank that allows you to play at the level youGÇÖre comfortable with. C/D? .
TL;DR
And do people honestly believe any agreement in EVE will any longer than five minutes after one side slips up?
CCP: "We know what's best for the game, so you can't have any options....." |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2079
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 20:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Snot Shot wrote:So all we every hear out of the 0.0 Coalitions when there is a fleet fight is who blobbed who, TiDi was terrible, and if it wasnGÇÖt for GÇ£XGÇ¥ then so and so would have wonGǪGǪ  This seems to then spiral up into what CCP is doing wrong and what they need to fixGǪGǪ.which ends up being some server/node/code/math discussion that any sane person can see couldnGÇÖt be solved anytime soon. So why donGÇÖt the players intervene to come up with their own solution? PL and CFC just hammered out a pretty lengthy agreement related to the rules of engagement between these two parties. Why canGÇÖt the leaders of majority space holders in 0.0 sit down and hammer out a agreement related to 0.0 combat which fits within the current game capabilities which can be adjusted each year as CCPs hardware gets better? There are basically about 10 people who drive 0.0 content which can escalate into 2,000+ in system so it doesnGÇÖt need to be that every Alliance CEO has to be at the table to do this. This GÇ£reasonsGÇ¥ for the blob/coalitions etc. existing has been examined endlessly so the details and framework of a 0.0 engagement agreement can easily be crafted to address these factors etc. Example Idea: Alliance GÇ£ RankingGÇ¥ system: Each Null sec Alliance is given a rank 1, 2, 3, 4 determined by size, time zone, and any other factors . Alliances like PL are ranked 1 while Alliances like Li3 are ranked a 3 for example. If PL goes after Li3 than Li3 can request help from 2 other Alliances ranked 3GÇÖs as well to help. Any other Alliances that enter the filed during the fleet fight are now hostile to all parties on the field and are the focus until driven off the field etc. This ranking only applies to direct SOV threats and not to any other engagement like POS take downs, griefing, hotdrops, etc. This way itGÇÖs kept simple and as balanced as possible. Maybe use current GÇ£War DeclarationGÇ¥ calculations to determine rank or something and Alliances that respond to the lower ranked Alliance request for help need to accept so thereGÇÖs no GÇ£misunderstanding as to who the other ranked Alliances were that are involved in the war are etc. EVE has some of the smartest people playing it yet when it comes to figuring out how to solve the only issue 0.0 cries the most about they seem to become the dumbest people on the planetGǪ..wtf? Form some sort of Council and sit the **** down to hammer some kind of agreement out that works with what the games capabilities are currently and adjust it each year. With great power comes great responsibility so man the **** up and do something game changing instead of crying like school girls each time TiDi kills a GÇ£GFGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪunless itGÇÖs the only thing that saves your ass in these engagements, and in that case maybe you down want to develop a solution?.........or give yourself a rank that allows you to play at the level youGÇÖre comfortable with. C/D? . TL;DR And do people honestly believe any agreement in EVE will any longer than five minutes after one side slips up?
And now long has OTEC lasted? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
2687
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 21:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
The point of an agreement is that it should be beneficial for both sides as long as they uphold it. Your idea is beneficial only to whoever breaks it first... |

Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
675
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 22:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:The point of an agreement is that it should be beneficial for both sides as long as they uphold it. Your idea is beneficial only to whoever breaks it first... Why? Example? Podside Podcasts - Episode #170-www.podbay.fm/show/542915403 Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á --áGÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" |
|

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
796

|
Posted - 2014.01.24 22:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|

thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
223
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 07:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:The point of an agreement is that it should be beneficial for both sides as long as they uphold it. Your idea is beneficial only to whoever breaks it first... Why? Example?
Thanks for posting man, I was starting to get worried, but your drivel is always the herald of us winning a war. |

Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2363
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 19:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Also- when supers are tackled all bets are off and everyone wants to get on the killmail: see the 14 Solar supers where PL blobbed 700 people into there..
700 People you say? 
|

Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
676
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 19:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:Thanks for posting man, I was starting to get worried, but your drivel is always the herald of us winning a war. War looks like its going pretty well for you?... ..........Oh, this is where you say "not winning fast enough"... .
Podside Podcasts - Episode #170-www.podbay.fm/show/542915403 Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á --áGÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" |
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